3.9 LSAC GPA + TFA + 17___ = chance at Top 6

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SufficientCondish
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3.9 LSAC GPA + TFA + 17___ = chance at Top 6

Postby SufficientCondish » Fri May 31, 2013 11:45 am

As subject reads, I have a 3.90 from a regular old PA public school and was accepted to Teach for America for the 2014 corp (2014-2016) through their new junior acceptance program. I've been prepping for the LSATs for several months, PTing in low 160's, untimed in the 170's.

I am currently prepping for October 2013 test, and am wondering if my LSAT was an even 170 (where I think I'd realistically score), would that give me a shot at HYSCCN? Does TFA help me out at all? Is applying in October too late / should I apply next year on September 1st if I don't get in this year (does november 15th vs. September 15th make a difference)?

Also, how does one inform law schools about their TFA acceptance w/o having done it yet? Do I try to squeeze it into my Personal Statement? Just throw it on my resume? How does one effectively market their acceptance?

This is my first post, and I apologize for any minute TLS forum etiquette mistakes.
Last edited by SufficientCondish on Fri May 31, 2013 3:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Homelandsagreatshow
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Re: 3.9 LSAC GPA + TFA + 17___ = chance at Top 6

Postby Homelandsagreatshow » Fri May 31, 2013 11:49 am

Yeah with a 170 you could snag one or a few of CCN, although YHS are almost certainly out.

Check out lawschoolnumbers.com to play the hypo game with your numbers.

PA public represent!

Pittsburgh by chance?

Edit: I thought you meant public high school, which I attended, in which case that wouldn't make sense so...Go PA! hahaha

PRgradBYU
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Re: 3.9 LSAC GPA + TFA + 17___ = chance at Top 6

Postby PRgradBYU » Fri May 31, 2013 11:52 am

Edit: Accidental double post
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PRgradBYU
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Re: 3.9 LSAC GPA + TFA + 17___ = chance at Top 6

Postby PRgradBYU » Fri May 31, 2013 11:53 am

PRgradBYU wrote:Image


I.e., your chances are so-so for CC, good for N, and not so good for HYS. Hitting the mid-170s would make you a great candidate for H and S.

SufficientCondish
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Re: 3.9 LSAC GPA + TFA + 17___ = chance at Top 6

Postby SufficientCondish » Fri May 31, 2013 12:02 pm

I.e., your chances are so-so for CC, good for N, and not so good for HYS. Hitting the mid-170s would make you a great candidate for H and S.


Thanks for the charts! Even by punching in 171-171 the odds at H go up to 45%... that is insane.

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jbagelboy
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Re: 3.9 LSAC GPA + TFA + 17___ = chance at Top 6

Postby jbagelboy » Fri May 31, 2013 1:14 pm

I'm confused.

You have been recruited for the 2014 TFA year, but you are taking the LSAT and applying to law school in fall of 2013. Are you planning on deferring law school for two years once you are admitted? Or are you double fisting TFA and LS and you'll pick which one works out best? Neither strategy is optimal.

TFA grads do get a small boost, but not TFA admits. Saying you were accepted to TFA doesn't mean shit; doing it for two years, on the other hand, is considered a decent soft. Same way with fulbright. You can't have it both ways here. My recommendation would be to wait on the LSAT, focus on senior year grades and maintaining that 3.9, then doing TFA and taking the LSAT your first year & applying to law school in two years as a second year corps member so you have time to retake if necessary. You could hit HYS if you give the LSAT enough study time (studying as a student is ineffective. Thesis, classes, social life, ect. gets in the way. Wait until you've graduated and take a class), actually do TFA and benefit from the experience & extra professional LOR and WE.

You will hit CCN with your GPA and a 170, but why stop there? You could have YS if you take my advice and wait to apply. There is absolutely NO rush to go to law school, and if you've been accepted to TFA, you have a very solid option open for the gap years. Please give this serious thought - you are young, and law firms are increasingly less interested in hiring k-jds who have never been in the work world.

SufficientCondish wrote:Also, how does one inform law schools about their TFA acceptance w/o having done it yet? Do I try to squeeze it into my Personal Statement? Just throw it on my resume? How does one effectively market their acceptance?


No offense, but this is retarded. How do you "squeeze" something in to your resume that you haven't done?

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RSterling
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Re: 3.9 LSAC GPA + TFA + 17___ = chance at Top 6

Postby RSterling » Fri May 31, 2013 1:30 pm

You don't seem that interested in teaching, so why even do TFA? I have several friends who are in TFA and the only ones who are not completely miserable are the ones who want to be teachers beyond the two years.

Above posters are right as well. Saying you were admitted to TFA just says "I won't be entering law school anyway and I'm just looking for a deferal." This will translate into schools being more likely to ding you because they know you'll just reapply in two years anyway.

SufficientCondish
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Re: 3.9 LSAC GPA + TFA + 17___ = chance at Top 6

Postby SufficientCondish » Fri May 31, 2013 1:32 pm

I understand that it was retarded.. hence my confusion regarding how people who are accepted to TFA consider applying their senior year and deferring.

I absolutely intend to attend TFA, I think it will be fun, challenging, and I may want to remain a teacher... who knows. My current plan was to take the LSAT in October and immediately apply to schools, see who bit, accept and defer at my best option. Then, do TFA and see if I'd rather retake or stay in teaching after my two year commitment. If either of those occur, I would drop my acceptance and move on. If not, go to wherever I got in.

But what you are saying is that TFA acceptance has no merit as a soft for applying and only TFA completion does and that therefore my odds of YHS go up with waiting. If that is the case, then I still would prefer to take the test in October, because I've been studying for 3 months already, and just hang tight on my score (pending its good enough) and wait till my 2nd year of TFA.

SufficientCondish
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Re: 3.9 LSAC GPA + TFA + 17___ = chance at Top 6

Postby SufficientCondish » Fri May 31, 2013 1:35 pm

RSterling wrote:You don't seem that interested in teaching, so why even do TFA? I have several friends who are in TFA and the only ones who are not completely miserable are the ones who want to be teachers beyond the two years.


I am extremely interested in teaching and am not opposed to staying on as a teacher after TFA. I am just trying to maximize my options because I have no idea how TFA will impact me, and I am also extremely interested in LS.

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RSterling
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Re: 3.9 LSAC GPA + TFA + 17___ = chance at Top 6

Postby RSterling » Fri May 31, 2013 1:49 pm

SufficientCondish wrote:
RSterling wrote:You don't seem that interested in teaching, so why even do TFA? I have several friends who are in TFA and the only ones who are not completely miserable are the ones who want to be teachers beyond the two years.


I am extremely interested in teaching and am not opposed to staying on as a teacher after TFA. I am just trying to maximize my options because I have no idea how TFA will impact me, and I am also extremely interested in LS.


Then just focus on one thing. If you're interested in teaching, put law school to the side for now. It'll still be there in 2 years. If you want to take the LSAT in October, that's fine, but hold off on applying.

SufficientCondish
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Re: 3.9 LSAC GPA + TFA + 17___ = chance at Top 6

Postby SufficientCondish » Fri May 31, 2013 1:56 pm

Then just focus on one thing. If you're interested in teaching, put law school to the side for now. It'll still be there in 2 years. If you want to take the LSAT in October, that's fine, but hold off on applying.



So then my question is, what is the down side of throwing out apps this year? If I were to defer at a school are there negatives to then deciding to break that deferral in two years if I thought I could do better in the 2016 cycle?

rockclimber2013
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Re: 3.9 LSAC GPA + TFA + 17___ = chance at Top 6

Postby rockclimber2013 » Fri May 31, 2013 1:59 pm

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jbagelboy
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Re: 3.9 LSAC GPA + TFA + 17___ = chance at Top 6

Postby jbagelboy » Fri May 31, 2013 2:05 pm

rockclimber2013 wrote:[former TFA corps member here, PM me if you want to talk in more detail about TFA/applying to law school]

If you're trying to optimize for getting into the best school possible, there is no reason to apply next year rather than applying during your second year of TFA. You'll be more mature, have a better idea of why you want to go to law school and what you want to get out of it, you'll actually have something interesting to write a personal statement about, etc. And you might decide you don't want to go to law school at all - a lot of my TFA colleagues came in to the corps planning on going to law school after two years, and are now still teaching, getting other graduate degrees, working in policy, working in education administration, working in management roles in TFA, etc.

I'll also echo what other posters said above - finishing TFA (especially with solid accomplishments during your two years) is a good soft; just getting admitted isn't nearly as meaningful. I got into HYS after TFA + other w/e, and I'm fairly certain I wouldn't have gotten into any of those schools had I applied before starting TFA. Spending two years teaching in a very poor community changed me in a lot of ways, and that included changing my career aspirations. Being able to talk about those changes in a personal statement was helpful.

Also, I'll echo what everyone else said, re: TFA generally. If you aren't sure whether you want to be a teacher for two years, you should think very, very hard about joining the corps. You aren't "doing TFA" for the next two years; you're teaching, and you're teaching in an incredibly difficult environment. The people in my corps who quit (or stayed on but were miserable for two years) are the people who came in without reflecting on whether teaching in a poor school/living in a poor community was how they wanted to spend their early 20s.


+1 in addition to what I said above

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jbagelboy
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Re: 3.9 LSAC GPA + TFA + 17___ = chance at Top 6

Postby jbagelboy » Fri May 31, 2013 2:11 pm

SufficientCondish wrote:
Then just focus on one thing. If you're interested in teaching, put law school to the side for now. It'll still be there in 2 years. If you want to take the LSAT in October, that's fine, but hold off on applying.



So then my question is, what is the down side of throwing out apps this year? If I were to defer at a school are there negatives to then deciding to break that deferral in two years if I thought I could do better in the 2016 cycle?


Several responses.

1) It costs a lot of money, time, effort, and emotional energy applying to law school. It's not just something you do for an afternoon. It would suck to spend $500+ and many many days just to reapply two years later for a better outcome.

2) You will have a worse outcome this fall than if you waited (per the above). For all the reasons given above w/ TFA and LSAT prep, you have an actual shot at HYS applying in two years. You gain nothing by doing it now.

3) Breaking a deferral is bad news. If you defer a school like CLS, you have to promise not to apply to any other law schools. If you break that deferral prior to applying (since you can't wait to see if you get into other schools before turning it down), the school will be highly reluctant to admit you again, so you're really just hurting yourself in admissions.

4) Deferring often loses your scholarships. Unless your family is incredibly loaded, this will matter significantly to you come spring of applications. Some schools don't operate this way, but for many, the aid package they offer is only available for starting that fall, and you'd have to reapply for aid (and potentially lose the chance at merit aid, the most valuable form) the spring before starting anyway. So its a bad idea.

062914123
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Re: 3.9 LSAC GPA + TFA + 17___ = chance at Top 6

Postby 062914123 » Fri May 31, 2013 2:25 pm

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SufficientCondish
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Re: 3.9 LSAC GPA + TFA + 17___ = chance at Top 6

Postby SufficientCondish » Fri May 31, 2013 2:27 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
SufficientCondish wrote:
Then just focus on one thing. If you're interested in teaching, put law school to the side for now. It'll still be there in 2 years. If you want to take the LSAT in October, that's fine, but hold off on applying.



So then my question is, what is the down side of throwing out apps this year? If I were to defer at a school are there negatives to then deciding to break that deferral in two years if I thought I could do better in the 2016 cycle?


Several responses.

1) It costs a lot of money, time, effort, and emotional energy applying to law school. It's not just something you do for an afternoon. It would suck to spend $500+ and many many days just to reapply two years later for a better outcome.

2) You will have a worse outcome this fall than if you waited (per the above). For all the reasons given above w/ TFA and LSAT prep, you have an actual shot at HYS applying in two years. You gain nothing by doing it now.

3) Breaking a deferral is bad news. If you defer a school like CLS, you have to promise not to apply to any other law schools. If you break that deferral prior to applying (since you can't wait to see if you get into other schools before turning it down), the school will be highly reluctant to admit you again, so you're really just hurting yourself in admissions.

4) Deferring often loses your scholarships. Unless your family is incredibly loaded, this will matter significantly to you come spring of applications. Some schools don't operate this way, but for many, the aid package they offer is only available for starting that fall, and you'd have to reapply for aid (and potentially lose the chance at merit aid, the most valuable form) the spring before starting anyway. So its a bad idea.


Okay that makes sense. So then the best plan would be simply to retain my GPA and sometime before Fall of 2015, get an LSAT score. Do schools care that the score would be from 2013? Or as long as its valid w/ LSAC its good?

SufficientCondish
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Re: 3.9 LSAC GPA + TFA + 17___ = chance at Top 6

Postby SufficientCondish » Fri May 31, 2013 2:35 pm

bee wrote:
rockclimber2013 wrote:[former TFA corps member here, PM me if you want to talk in more detail about TFA/applying to law school]

If you're trying to optimize for getting into the best school possible, there is no reason to apply next year rather than applying during your second year of TFA. You'll be more mature, have a better idea of why you want to go to law school and what you want to get out of it, you'll actually have something interesting to write a personal statement about, etc. And you might decide you don't want to go to law school at all - a lot of my TFA colleagues came in to the corps planning on going to law school after two years, and are now still teaching, getting other graduate degrees, working in policy, working in education administration, working in management roles in TFA, etc.

I'll also echo what other posters said above - finishing TFA (especially with solid accomplishments during your two years) is a good soft; just getting admitted isn't nearly as meaningful. I got into HYS after TFA + other w/e, and I'm fairly certain I wouldn't have gotten into any of those schools had I applied before starting TFA. Spending two years teaching in a very poor community changed me in a lot of ways, and that included changing my career aspirations. Being able to talk about those changes in a personal statement was helpful.

Also, I'll echo what everyone else said, re: TFA generally. If you aren't sure whether you want to be a teacher for two years, you should think very, very hard about joining the corps. You aren't "doing TFA" for the next two years; you're teaching, and you're teaching in an incredibly difficult environment. The people in my corps who quit (or stayed on but were miserable for two years) are the people who came in without reflecting on whether teaching in a poor school/living in a poor community was how they wanted to spend their early 20s.

Am also a TFAer, second everything. Seriously think about whether you sincerely and absolutely want to commit to teaching for two years in a very difficult situation, because it doesn't sound like it from your post. I'm not saying this to be condescending, but it is truly in your best interest to very carefully consider your decision. As rockclimber said, you don't "do TFA."


Totally understand, and I understand how my post seemingly diminished my opinion about teaching as simply "doing TFA" . I know several current CM and have spoken at length with alumni from several different regions. I understand that I cannot fully grasp the true effects of the program, but I am serious about my desire to teach for at least awhile to see if I excel at it and/or enjoy it.

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Re: 3.9 LSAC GPA + TFA + 17___ = chance at Top 6

Postby 062914123 » Fri May 31, 2013 2:39 pm

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jbagelboy
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Re: 3.9 LSAC GPA + TFA + 17___ = chance at Top 6

Postby jbagelboy » Fri May 31, 2013 2:42 pm

SufficientCondish wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
Several responses.

1) It costs a lot of money, time, effort, and emotional energy applying to law school. It's not just something you do for an afternoon. It would suck to spend $500+ and many many days just to reapply two years later for a better outcome.

2) You will have a worse outcome this fall than if you waited (per the above). For all the reasons given above w/ TFA and LSAT prep, you have an actual shot at HYS applying in two years. You gain nothing by doing it now.

3) Breaking a deferral is bad news. If you defer a school like CLS, you have to promise not to apply to any other law schools. If you break that deferral prior to applying (since you can't wait to see if you get into other schools before turning it down), the school will be highly reluctant to admit you again, so you're really just hurting yourself in admissions.

4) Deferring often loses your scholarships. Unless your family is incredibly loaded, this will matter significantly to you come spring of applications. Some schools don't operate this way, but for many, the aid package they offer is only available for starting that fall, and you'd have to reapply for aid (and potentially lose the chance at merit aid, the most valuable form) the spring before starting anyway. So its a bad idea.


Okay that makes sense. So then the best plan would be simply to retain my GPA and sometime before Fall of 2015, get an LSAT score. Do schools care that the score would be from 2013? Or as long as its valid w/ LSAC its good?


I've never heard of an instance where it hurt your chances to have an "older" LSAT score. I think LSAC keeps them for 5 years -- you would only be waiting 2 at most. If you've been studying now, feel free to take the October LSAT, but 1) DONT let it affect your coursework and hurt your GPA, and 2) I'm pretty sure you can do better taking it again after graduation. Then again, I'm always a proponent of taking twice because the first time, no matter how many PT's you've taken, is always kind of an experiential test run. If I were you, I wouldn't wait until Fall 2015 to take it; I would take once either this fall or as a first year corps member, and then again if necessary in Oct 2015.

I'm glad you are seeing the logic to this approach. best of luck to you

rockclimber2013
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Re: 3.9 LSAC GPA + TFA + 17___ = chance at Top 6

Postby rockclimber2013 » Fri May 31, 2013 2:59 pm

Older score doesn't hurt at all. I took the LSAT in June 2009 (before I started TFA) and applied this cycle.

SufficientCondish
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Re: 3.9 LSAC GPA + TFA + 17___ = chance at Top 6

Postby SufficientCondish » Fri May 31, 2013 3:05 pm

So no matter what the October LSAT brings (short of 176+?) the best option would be to apply in year two of TFA?

Throttle
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Re: 3.9 LSAC GPA + TFA + 17___ = chance at Top 6

Postby Throttle » Fri May 31, 2013 3:09 pm

[quote="Homelandsagreatshow"]Yeah with a 170 you could snag one or a few of CCN, although YHS are almost certainly out.
/quote]

not true. OP has a 3.9, if you combine that with TFA and a 170+ then OP has a shot at YHS. So tired of people saying you have no shot at HYS unless you are a rhodes scholar and shit.

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/rmd312
http://lawschoolnumbers.com/EA88

and other profiles

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jbagelboy
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Re: 3.9 LSAC GPA + TFA + 17___ = chance at Top 6

Postby jbagelboy » Fri May 31, 2013 3:30 pm

SufficientCondish wrote:So no matter what the October LSAT brings (short of 176+?) the best option would be to apply in year two of TFA?


IMHO, yes.

Even if you hit over 175, I still don't see the purpose in applying this fall (unless you decide you really don't want to do TFA and you want to go straight to LS, but then you can't use TFA as a soft). You have a legit shot at Yale with your GPA, a high LSAT and two years of TFA under your belt. Without TFA, you're still in at HCCNB, but you won't have anything to make you stand out for YS. I just don't see the advantage in applying early -- if its peace of mind you're looking for, believe me, a 175+ LSAT will be peace of mind enough since you know you can always get in.

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Re: 3.9 LSAC GPA + TFA + 17___ = chance at Top 6

Postby TripTrip » Sat Jun 01, 2013 11:18 am

Throttle wrote:
Homelandsagreatshow wrote:Yeah with a 170 you could snag one or a few of CCN, although YHS are almost certainly out.


not true. OP has a 3.9, if you combine that with TFA and a 170+ then OP has a shot at YHS. So tired of people saying you have no shot at HYS unless you are a rhodes scholar and shit.

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/rmd312
http://lawschoolnumbers.com/EA88

and other profiles

Everyone has a "shot" at HYS, but the vast majority (75%+) of people in OP's position would not get HYS, so it's fair to predict OP probably won't either. Besides, OP hasn't taken the LSAT yet. They should realize how much better of a position they will be in if they break 173.

Throttle
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Re: 3.9 LSAC GPA + TFA + 17___ = chance at Top 6

Postby Throttle » Sat Jun 01, 2013 12:26 pm

TripTrip wrote:
Throttle wrote:
Homelandsagreatshow wrote:Yeah with a 170 you could snag one or a few of CCN, although YHS are almost certainly out.


not true. OP has a 3.9, if you combine that with TFA and a 170+ then OP has a shot at YHS. So tired of people saying you have no shot at HYS unless you are a rhodes scholar and shit.

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/rmd312
http://lawschoolnumbers.com/EA88

and other profiles

Everyone has a "shot" at HYS, but the vast majority (75%+) of people in OP's position would not get HYS, so it's fair to predict OP probably won't either. Besides, OP hasn't taken the LSAT yet. They should realize how much better of a position they will be in if they break 173.



so a 2.0 with a 125 and C&F issues has a shot at HYS? A shot means that someone with your numbers or close to your numbers has gotten in. OP with a 3.9 TFA 170 has a shot, its not a big shot but it's a shot. I'm just tired of people saying that you need a 177 3.9 just to get in. Yes I do understand that op has a slim chance, but op is def not out if he gets a 170.




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