Undergraduate at Harvard or state school?

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TaipeiMort
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Re: Undergraduate at Harvard or state school?

Postby TaipeiMort » Sat Apr 13, 2013 1:37 pm

Clearlynotstefan wrote:I'm not talking about perception, I'm talking about technicality. Schools that start with University of California ________ Are invariably state schools, correct? That's what I've always thought, I'm not from Cali though.


Yeah.

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paranoia4ya
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Re: Undergraduate at Harvard or state school?

Postby paranoia4ya » Sat Apr 13, 2013 5:17 pm

TaipeiMort wrote:
Clearlynotstefan wrote:I'm not talking about perception, I'm talking about technicality. Schools that start with University of California ________ Are invariably state schools, correct? That's what I've always thought, I'm not from Cali though.


Yeah.


go to harvard. unless you already know how you will do on the lsat, you shouldn't be closing too many doors.

AlexMd
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Re: Undergraduate at Harvard or state school?

Postby AlexMd » Sat Apr 13, 2013 11:25 pm

Thank you for all the replies.
It seems that Harvard is the general consensus. :lol: And yes, they do indeed offer very generous aid, my family only has to pay about 10% of income.
One more question though, when you guys refer to a "useful degree", what do you mean? Like a non-liberal arts one?

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Grazzhoppa
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Re: Undergraduate at Harvard or state school?

Postby Grazzhoppa » Sat Apr 13, 2013 11:29 pm

Go to Harvard.

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ManoftheHour
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Re: Undergraduate at Harvard or state school?

Postby ManoftheHour » Sat Apr 13, 2013 11:34 pm

AlexMd wrote:Thank you for all the replies.
It seems that Harvard is the general consensus. :lol: And yes, they do indeed offer very generous aid, my family only has to pay about 10% of income.
One more question though, when you guys refer to a "useful degree", what do you mean? Like a non-liberal arts one?


Something that you can easily fall back on if law school does not work out.

Examples: Finance, accounting, business admin, economics.

Or if you're really ambitious, go for engineering.

Keep in mind that if you are sure you want to go to law school, you have to keep that GPA as high as possible.

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ManoftheHour
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Re: Undergraduate at Harvard or state school?

Postby ManoftheHour » Sat Apr 13, 2013 11:36 pm

TaipeiMort wrote:
Clearlynotstefan wrote:
ManoftheHour wrote:I thought it was. Maybe it is. But then why do UC students chant "state schooooollllll" as a taunt at their basketball games against the Cal States? Do the UCs have a different distinction? I've seen this at UC Santa Barbara, Davis, and Santa Cruz. I've seen this at a Santa Barbara soccer game as well.

It's either "state school" or "UC Rejects" as the most common taunt.

I believe if it starts with UC it's state. University of California at _____. Like SUNY@____. The only thing this prooves is that some state schools are harder then others, there are examples of people transferring into the state schools and gpas dropping, and the other way around. OP should go to Harvard with a useful major so he has more options.


The perception is a bit off. UCs are generally national schools, similar to the top state school in smaller states (Oregon, Washington, etc.). and non-Ivy private schools, and are generally pretty selective. CSUs are like SUNYs-- basically glorified community colleges.


I guess that's what I was getting at with my earlier comment about "state schools being jokes." I was referring to a CSU. Glorified community colleges is right.

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danquayle
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Re: Undergraduate at Harvard or state school?

Postby danquayle » Sat Apr 13, 2013 11:39 pm

AlexMd wrote:Thank you for all the replies.
It seems that Harvard is the general consensus. :lol: And yes, they do indeed offer very generous aid, my family only has to pay about 10% of income.
One more question though, when you guys refer to a "useful degree", what do you mean? Like a non-liberal arts one?


If you're 100% sure you want to go to law school, a 3.8 from a decent state school is better than a 3.5 from Harvard. Law school admissions is almost entirely about the numbers.

But I agree with most of the other posts... going to Harvard would enable you all kinds of intangible benefits. You might network yourself into a stellar job or develop radically different career goals. Assuming you'll still want to go to law school 4 years out isn't a good plan.

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Clearly
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Re: Undergraduate at Harvard or state school?

Postby Clearly » Sun Apr 14, 2013 12:37 am

TaipeiMort wrote:
Clearlynotstefan wrote:
ManoftheHour wrote:I thought it was. Maybe it is. But then why do UC students chant "state schooooollllll" as a taunt at their basketball games against the Cal States? Do the UCs have a different distinction? I've seen this at UC Santa Barbara, Davis, and Santa Cruz. I've seen this at a Santa Barbara soccer game as well.

It's either "state school" or "UC Rejects" as the most common taunt.

I believe if it starts with UC it's state. University of California at _____. Like SUNY@____. The only thing this prooves is that some state schools are harder then others, there are examples of people transferring into the state schools and gpas dropping, and the other way around. OP should go to Harvard with a useful major so he has more options.


The perception is a bit off. UCs are generally national schools, similar to the top state school in smaller states (Oregon, Washington, etc.). and non-Ivy private schools, and are generally pretty selective. CSUs are like SUNYs-- basically glorified community colleges.

By the way, while most SUNY's are jokes, not all are.

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danquayle
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Re: Undergraduate at Harvard or state school?

Postby danquayle » Sun Apr 14, 2013 12:42 am

Clearlynotstefan wrote:
TaipeiMort wrote:
Clearlynotstefan wrote:
ManoftheHour wrote:I thought it was. Maybe it is. But then why do UC students chant "state schooooollllll" as a taunt at their basketball games against the Cal States? Do the UCs have a different distinction? I've seen this at UC Santa Barbara, Davis, and Santa Cruz. I've seen this at a Santa Barbara soccer game as well.

It's either "state school" or "UC Rejects" as the most common taunt.

I believe if it starts with UC it's state. University of California at _____. Like SUNY@____. The only thing this prooves is that some state schools are harder then others, there are examples of people transferring into the state schools and gpas dropping, and the other way around. OP should go to Harvard with a useful major so he has more options.


The perception is a bit off. UCs are generally national schools, similar to the top state school in smaller states (Oregon, Washington, etc.). and non-Ivy private schools, and are generally pretty selective. CSUs are like SUNYs-- basically glorified community colleges.

By the way, while most SUNY's are jokes, not all are.


Binghampton and Stony Brook are pretty good, are they not?

There are plenty of public schools that are way better than most private schools.

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ManoftheHour
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Re: Undergraduate at Harvard or state school?

Postby ManoftheHour » Sun Apr 14, 2013 12:48 am

Clearlynotstefan wrote:
TaipeiMort wrote:
Clearlynotstefan wrote:
ManoftheHour wrote:I thought it was. Maybe it is. But then why do UC students chant "state schooooollllll" as a taunt at their basketball games against the Cal States? Do the UCs have a different distinction? I've seen this at UC Santa Barbara, Davis, and Santa Cruz. I've seen this at a Santa Barbara soccer game as well.

It's either "state school" or "UC Rejects" as the most common taunt.

I believe if it starts with UC it's state. University of California at _____. Like SUNY@____. The only thing this prooves is that some state schools are harder then others, there are examples of people transferring into the state schools and gpas dropping, and the other way around. OP should go to Harvard with a useful major so he has more options.


The perception is a bit off. UCs are generally national schools, similar to the top state school in smaller states (Oregon, Washington, etc.). and non-Ivy private schools, and are generally pretty selective. CSUs are like SUNYs-- basically glorified community colleges.

By the way, while most SUNY's are jokes, not all are.


It's the same with CSUs. I believe SLO and Poly have pretty reputable engineering programs.

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danquayle
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Re: Undergraduate at Harvard or state school?

Postby danquayle » Sun Apr 14, 2013 1:03 am

ManoftheHour wrote:
It's the same with CSUs. I believe SLO and Poly have pretty reputable engineering programs.


Kevin Costner went to Fullerton. Can Dartmouth bring that kind of star power?

hlsperson1111
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Re: Undergraduate at Harvard or state school?

Postby hlsperson1111 » Sun Apr 14, 2013 2:48 pm

(1) Go to Harvard UG. I went to Cal for undergrad and loved it, but if I had to the option to go to Harvard UG I'd take it and not look back. This place really does open doors for you.

(2) Cal is the best public university in the US and maybe the world. Cal State schools (SDSU/SJSU/CSULB/etc.) are "state schools". They're all public schools but they are not all "state schools" in the way that term is typically used.

sfhaze
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Re: Undergraduate at Harvard or state school?

Postby sfhaze » Sun Apr 14, 2013 3:11 pm

ManoftheHour wrote:I thought it was. Maybe it is. But then why do UC students chant "state schooooollllll" as a taunt at their basketball games against the Cal States? Do the UCs have a different distinction? I've seen this at UC Santa Barbara, Davis, and Santa Cruz. I've seen this at a Santa Barbara soccer game as well.

It's either "state school" or "UC Rejects" as the most common taunt.

This is some of the dumbest shit I've heard. As if major sport athletes playing for their schools are in any way typically representative of the academic rigors of their school.

But to answer your question, to the extent Davis, Santa Barbara, Santa Cruz, Riverside, or even Merced kids do this (I haven't had the pleasure of sitting through a game involving any of these fine athletic powerhouses, though I do doubt this happens much since any idiot attending a UC should know it's a state school too), it's simply a reflection of a sense of inferiority for not having gotten into Berkeley or UCLA. Sad. Like a Honda owner making fun of a Hyundai owner.

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wert3813
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Re: Undergraduate at Harvard or state school?

Postby wert3813 » Sun Apr 14, 2013 9:58 pm

Good god young fellow. Go to Harvard, do the best you can, and have the time of your life.

To answer your other questions GPA matters a good deal and it's becoming more clear that an Ivy plus Stanford UG does seems to give you a slight bump at T-6. What slight means is of some debate but we are talking .1 or so, not .3 or so.

But please please don't let law school factor into your UG decision. If you can graduate from Harvard UG with less than 100K debt it is beyond dumb not to go.

Seriously this opportunity is like winning the lottery. Please take it. Oh and going to state school and then not having the GPA or LSAT for law school is a real possibility.

realestate101
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Re: Undergraduate at Harvard or state school?

Postby realestate101 » Sun Apr 14, 2013 10:21 pm

If you get into harvard, you go. The opportunities you will get walking out of a place with that prestige is beyond words. If you were choosing between NYU and an easy state school and you knew 100% you were going law, I would say go to the state school, party, get easy A's, enjoy Harvard Law. Simply put, you go to harvard, everyone looks at you differently.

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dr123
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Re: Undergraduate at Harvard or state school?

Postby dr123 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 5:47 pm

hlsperson1111 wrote:(1) Go to Harvard UG. I went to Cal for undergrad and loved it, but if I had to the option to go to Harvard UG I'd take it and not look back. This place really does open doors for you.

(2) Cal is the best public university in the US and maybe the world. Cal State schools (SDSU/SJSU/CSULB/etc.) are "state schools". They're all public schools but they are not all "state schools" in the way that term is typically used.


Maybe in CA. In the rest of the US, public school = state school and state school = public school.

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wert3813
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Re: Undergraduate at Harvard or state school?

Postby wert3813 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 6:42 pm

dr123 wrote:
hlsperson1111 wrote:(1) Go to Harvard UG. I went to Cal for undergrad and loved it, but if I had to the option to go to Harvard UG I'd take it and not look back. This place really does open doors for you.

(2) Cal is the best public university in the US and maybe the world. Cal State schools (SDSU/SJSU/CSULB/etc.) are "state schools". They're all public schools but they are not all "state schools" in the way that term is typically used.


Maybe in CA. In the rest of the US, public school = state school and state school = public school.


Good. Nice, necessary, comment on an old thread to get an argument started up.

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dr123
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Re: Undergraduate at Harvard or state school?

Postby dr123 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 6:46 pm

wert3813 wrote:
dr123 wrote:
hlsperson1111 wrote:(1) Go to Harvard UG. I went to Cal for undergrad and loved it, but if I had to the option to go to Harvard UG I'd take it and not look back. This place really does open doors for you.

(2) Cal is the best public university in the US and maybe the world. Cal State schools (SDSU/SJSU/CSULB/etc.) are "state schools". They're all public schools but they are not all "state schools" in the way that term is typically used.


Maybe in CA. In the rest of the US, public school = state school and state school = public school.


Good. Nice, necessary, comment on an old thread to get an argument started up.


no prob.

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ManoftheHour
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Re: Undergraduate at Harvard or state school?

Postby ManoftheHour » Tue Apr 16, 2013 6:47 pm

sfhaze wrote:
ManoftheHour wrote:I thought it was. Maybe it is. But then why do UC students chant "state schooooollllll" as a taunt at their basketball games against the Cal States? Do the UCs have a different distinction? I've seen this at UC Santa Barbara, Davis, and Santa Cruz. I've seen this at a Santa Barbara soccer game as well.

It's either "state school" or "UC Rejects" as the most common taunt.

This is some of the dumbest shit I've heard. As if major sport athletes playing for their schools are in any way typically representative of the academic rigors of their school.

But to answer your question, to the extent Davis, Santa Barbara, Santa Cruz, Riverside, or even Merced kids do this (I haven't had the pleasure of sitting through a game involving any of these fine athletic powerhouses, though I do doubt this happens much since any idiot attending a UC should know it's a state school too), it's simply a reflection of a sense of inferiority for not having gotten into Berkeley or UCLA. Sad. Like a Honda owner making fun of a Hyundai owner.


I don't disagree with this. I doubt you'd hear this kind of thing at Berkeley or LA. It confused the crap out of me.

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Dr. Dre
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Re: Undergraduate at Harvard or state school?

Postby Dr. Dre » Tue Apr 16, 2013 8:24 pm

outside of UCLA and CAl, the UCs are extremely overrated.


OP, go to harvard, stop wasting your time here and don't bother going to law school.

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pacifica
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Re: Undergraduate at Harvard or state school?

Postby pacifica » Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:43 pm

OP, Harvard is the no-brainer. In my mind, I can think of three obvious reasons:

(1) For someone interested in the social sciences/humanities, where something along the lines of a "professional sociologist" is rare, Harvard gives a lot of versatility for future job prospects because college can easily change a 17-year-old mind. Firms like McKinsey, Goldman, et al. throw state school applicants' resumes in the trash while they wine and dine Harvard students.

(2) Even if you're absolutely dead set on law school, having work experience after college really helps in the admissions process, and working in prestigious firms significantly adds to it. It's one of the reasons for example Yale Law's student body undergrad make up is 30% HYP and 50% Ivy.

(3) State school is not as easy as you think. With the larger pool of students to compete with, "real" grading curves, and the large numbers of I-don't-give-a-$hit-about-teaching faculty, you may end up with a lower GPA -- not because of intellectual reasons, but simple logistical reasons, which is even more frustrating. Of course, this is variable depending on the school you go to, but even top-notch ones like Cal or UCLA have many of those negative factors that a Harvard undergraduate avoids.

Sorry if this post sounded elitist, I'm sure it must have, lol, but I'm just sharing from personal experience. PM me if you want more details.

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danquayle
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Re: Undergraduate at Harvard or state school?

Postby danquayle » Wed Apr 17, 2013 2:38 pm

pacifica wrote:OP, Harvard is the no-brainer. In my mind, I can think of three obvious reasons:

(1) For someone interested in the social sciences/humanities, where something along the lines of a "professional sociologist" is rare, Harvard gives a lot of versatility for future job prospects because college can easily change a 17-year-old mind. Firms like McKinsey, Goldman, et al. throw state school applicants' resumes in the trash while they wine and dine Harvard students.

(2) Even if you're absolutely dead set on law school, having work experience after college really helps in the admissions process, and working in prestigious firms significantly adds to it. It's one of the reasons for example Yale Law's student body undergrad make up is 30% HYP and 50% Ivy.

(3) State school is not as easy as you think. With the larger pool of students to compete with, "real" grading curves, and the large numbers of I-don't-give-a-$hit-about-teaching faculty, you may end up with a lower GPA -- not because of intellectual reasons, but simple logistical reasons, which is even more frustrating. Of course, this is variable depending on the school you go to, but even top-notch ones like Cal or UCLA have many of those negative factors that a Harvard undergraduate avoids.

Sorry if this post sounded elitist, I'm sure it must have, lol, but I'm just sharing from personal experience. PM me if you want more details.


Not elitist at all. I went to a Cal/UCLA type school and this is 100% true. They're not necessarily any easier because the admin provides little support to their undergrads and you're still competing with ivy quality students who are certainly going to be present in such a massive student population.

vzapana
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Re: Undergraduate at Harvard or state school?

Postby vzapana » Wed Apr 17, 2013 2:54 pm

more than 60 percent of yale UG grades given by professors are A- or A, according to a study recently released by the college. i'm fairly confident that harvard has similar grade inflation. you will likely do very well at harvard, and the name will give your transcript even more heft. go go go.

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syd625
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Re: Undergraduate at Harvard or state school?

Postby syd625 » Fri Apr 26, 2013 4:35 pm

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Last edited by syd625 on Fri Aug 16, 2013 1:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Grazzhoppa
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Re: Undergraduate at Harvard or state school?

Postby Grazzhoppa » Fri Apr 26, 2013 6:19 pm

So you're going to Harvard right?




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