Undergraduate at Harvard or state school?

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AlexMd
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Undergraduate at Harvard or state school?

Postby AlexMd » Sat Apr 13, 2013 1:21 am

Hey guys,
For admission to top law schools, is it better to have a close to 4.0 GPA from a state school or a lower GPA from Harvard? Assuming I will have the same LSAT score.

Thanks!

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gaud
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Re: Undergraduate at Harvard or state school?

Postby gaud » Sat Apr 13, 2013 1:23 am

If you could have one or the other, I'm willing to bet Harvard would look better. That being said, a 4.0 from a state school will still look really good.

AlexMd
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Re: Undergraduate at Harvard or state school?

Postby AlexMd » Sat Apr 13, 2013 1:30 am

So how do law schools actually look at that? Meaning is there an estimated bump that a Harvard undergrad would get? like a .1 or something?
And would hls be the most favorable one when it comes to this consideration?

Thanks :D

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ArchieHicox
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Re: Undergraduate at Harvard or state school?

Postby ArchieHicox » Sat Apr 13, 2013 1:33 am

Harvard gives you more options in-case law school doesn't work out or you change your mind. I think a Harvard, Princeton, Stanford education is worth the increased debt and challenges every single time. If it was me, it wouldn't even be a competition. Harvard every time.

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hephaestus
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Re: Undergraduate at Harvard or state school?

Postby hephaestus » Sat Apr 13, 2013 1:35 am

AlexMd wrote:So how do law schools actually look at that? Meaning is there an estimated bump that a Harvard undergrad would get? like a .1 or something?
And would hls be the most favorable one when it comes to this consideration?

Thanks :D

No bump whatsoever. But if you got into Harvard, go there, major in something useful and avoid law school.

AlexMd
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Re: Undergraduate at Harvard or state school?

Postby AlexMd » Sat Apr 13, 2013 1:42 am

I haven't committed to harvard yet. I was planning concentrating in government and then eventually go to law school. Is that bad planning on my part? :\

One of my concerns was that my GPA will be compromised at harvard, since I would have a higher GPA at a easier school.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Undergraduate at Harvard or state school?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sat Apr 13, 2013 1:44 am

Everything I have ever heard about Harvard undergrad is that the hard part is getting in. If you do the work, you get As. If you don't work, you get Bs.

AlexMd
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Re: Undergraduate at Harvard or state school?

Postby AlexMd » Sat Apr 13, 2013 1:48 am

A. Nony Mouse wrote:Everything I have ever heard about Harvard undergrad is that the hard part is getting in. If you do the work, you get As. If you don't work, you get Bs.


Really? That's good to hear...

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Clearly
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Re: Undergraduate at Harvard or state school?

Postby Clearly » Sat Apr 13, 2013 1:58 am

AlexMd wrote:I haven't committed to harvard yet. I was planning concentrating in government and then eventually go to law school. Is that bad planning on my part? :\

One of my concerns was that my GPA will be compromised at harvard, since I would have a higher GPA at a easier school.

What makes this a certainty?

AlexMd
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Re: Undergraduate at Harvard or state school?

Postby AlexMd » Sat Apr 13, 2013 2:04 am

Clearlynotstefan wrote:
AlexMd wrote:I haven't committed to harvard yet. I was planning concentrating in government and then eventually go to law school. Is that bad planning on my part? :\

One of my concerns was that my GPA will be compromised at harvard, since I would have a higher GPA at a easier school.

What makes this a certainty?


For..?
In terms of GPA, I am fairly confident in speculating that I would get a higher GPA in an easier school.

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ManoftheHour
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Re: Undergraduate at Harvard or state school?

Postby ManoftheHour » Sat Apr 13, 2013 2:14 am

AlexMd wrote:
Clearlynotstefan wrote:
AlexMd wrote:I haven't committed to harvard yet. I was planning concentrating in government and then eventually go to law school. Is that bad planning on my part? :\

One of my concerns was that my GPA will be compromised at harvard, since I would have a higher GPA at a easier school.

What makes this a certainty?


For..?
In terms of GPA, I am fairly confident in speculating that I would get a higher GPA in an easier school.


In undergrad, that's probably true. I sat in on my girlfriend's state school classes. The classes were such jokes. Also, when she transferred to a UC (UC Davis), she went from a 3.7 to a 2.8. She had to retake biology and chemistry at the UC because they didn't count her previous courses as credit. She got Cs and even a D whereas in the state school, she received As.

With that said, I'd still choose Harvard. For one, who says you can't get As in Harvard as well? In undergrad, you CAN work hard and expect the As. Also, if you major in something useful, you could end up doing great things without law school. Law school will always be on the table.

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dr123
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Re: Undergraduate at Harvard or state school?

Postby dr123 » Sat Apr 13, 2013 2:35 am

ManoftheHour wrote:
AlexMd wrote:
Clearlynotstefan wrote:
AlexMd wrote:I haven't committed to harvard yet. I was planning concentrating in government and then eventually go to law school. Is that bad planning on my part? :\

One of my concerns was that my GPA will be compromised at harvard, since I would have a higher GPA at a easier school.

What makes this a certainty?


For..?
In terms of GPA, I am fairly confident in speculating that I would get a higher GPA in an easier school.


In undergrad, that's probably true. I sat in on my girlfriend's state school classes. The classes were such jokes. Also, when she transferred to a UC (UC Davis), she went from a 3.7 to a 2.8. She had to retake biology and chemistry at the UC because they didn't count her previous courses as credit. She got Cs and even a D whereas in the state school, she received As.

With that said, I'd still choose Harvard. For one, who says you can't get As in Harvard as well? In undergrad, you CAN work hard and expect the As. Also, if you major in something useful, you could end up doing great things without law school. Law school will always be on the table.



?

Isnt UC Davis a state school?

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Clearly
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Re: Undergraduate at Harvard or state school?

Postby Clearly » Sat Apr 13, 2013 3:06 am

:lol:

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ManoftheHour
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Re: Undergraduate at Harvard or state school?

Postby ManoftheHour » Sat Apr 13, 2013 3:10 am

I thought it was. Maybe it is. But then why do UC students chant "state schooooollllll" as a taunt at their basketball games against the Cal States? Do the UCs have a different distinction? I've seen this at UC Santa Barbara, Davis, and Santa Cruz. I've seen this at a Santa Barbara soccer game as well.

It's either "state school" or "UC Rejects" as the most common taunt.

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dr123
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Re: Undergraduate at Harvard or state school?

Postby dr123 » Sat Apr 13, 2013 3:21 am

I've always heard "public school" and "state school" used interchangeably, so I'd consider any CSU or UC to be a "state school".

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Clearly
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Re: Undergraduate at Harvard or state school?

Postby Clearly » Sat Apr 13, 2013 3:23 am

ManoftheHour wrote:I thought it was. Maybe it is. But then why do UC students chant "state schooooollllll" as a taunt at their basketball games against the Cal States? Do the UCs have a different distinction? I've seen this at UC Santa Barbara, Davis, and Santa Cruz. I've seen this at a Santa Barbara soccer game as well.

It's either "state school" or "UC Rejects" as the most common taunt.

I believe if it starts with UC it's state. University of California at _____. Like SUNY@____. The only thing this prooves is that some state schools are harder then others, there are examples of people transferring into the state schools and gpas dropping, and the other way around. OP should go to Harvard with a useful major so he has more options.

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sinfiery
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Re: Undergraduate at Harvard or state school?

Postby sinfiery » Sat Apr 13, 2013 3:41 am

It definitely has some effect, especially at the more "elite" law schools. If you are in the ballpark with your GPA, the fact that you went to Harvard will keep you competitive.
Harvard UG will also serve as a soft for your application and will likely allow you to pursue more interesting softs than you would at a state school.


Now, Harvard UG costs roughly 55-60k per year. If you're taking out loans to pay for this and your goal is to go to law school, don't go to Harvard. Go find a full ride to some state school instead.

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: Undergraduate at Harvard or state school?

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Sat Apr 13, 2013 3:50 am

ImNoScar wrote:
AlexMd wrote:So how do law schools actually look at that? Meaning is there an estimated bump that a Harvard undergrad would get? like a .1 or something?
And would hls be the most favorable one when it comes to this consideration?

Thanks :D

No bump whatsoever. But if you got into Harvard, go there, major in something useful and avoid law school.


^This is wrong. Most of the time where you went to UG doesn't matter. But for certain schools (Harvard, Yale, Princeton), LSN has shown a pattern of law schools being more forgiving of splitters from those schools.

Most education is overpriced these days, but I would think that Harvard UG is worth it, regardless of whether you go on to do law school. (How this affects law school stuff should not be a major factor in your decisionmaking process since there is probably a significant chance that you might not even end up going to law school.)

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haus
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Re: Undergraduate at Harvard or state school?

Postby haus » Sat Apr 13, 2013 8:53 am

sinfiery wrote:It definitely has some effect, especially at the more "elite" law schools. If you are in the ballpark with your GPA, the fact that you went to Harvard will keep you competitive.
Harvard UG will also serve as a soft for your application and will likely allow you to pursue more interesting softs than you would at a state school.


Now, Harvard UG costs roughly 55-60k per year. If you're taking out loans to pay for this and your goal is to go to law school, don't go to Harvard. Go find a full ride to some state school instead.

If your family does not have a high income, Harvard College offers very generous finical aid.

...including our Harvard Financial Aid Initiative for low and moderate income students, under which parents with incomes currently below $65,000 are not expected to contribute to college costs.
http://www.fao.fas.harvard.edu/icb/icb.do

For many students, it is likely that a degree from Harvard would cost them less than their state school option.

toothbrush
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Re: Undergraduate at Harvard or state school?

Postby toothbrush » Sat Apr 13, 2013 9:03 am

haus wrote:
sinfiery wrote:It definitely has some effect, especially at the more "elite" law schools. If you are in the ballpark with your GPA, the fact that you went to Harvard will keep you competitive.
Harvard UG will also serve as a soft for your application and will likely allow you to pursue more interesting softs than you would at a state school.


Now, Harvard UG costs roughly 55-60k per year. If you're taking out loans to pay for this and your goal is to go to law school, don't go to Harvard. Go find a full ride to some state school instead.

If your family does not have a high income, Harvard College offers very generous finical aid.

...including our Harvard Financial Aid Initiative for low and moderate income students, under which parents with incomes currently below $65,000 are not expected to contribute to college costs.
http://www.fao.fas.harvard.edu/icb/icb.do

For many students, it is likely that a degree from Harvard would cost them less than their state school option.



I recently read that HLS gives out average aid of like 30k / year even to pretty well off people.

OP. Go to Harvard for your undergrad. However, keep in mind that graduating from HC isn't a "pass" to make up for a bad gpa.

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Lwoods
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Re: Undergraduate at Harvard or state school?

Postby Lwoods » Sat Apr 13, 2013 9:26 am

1) You can't assume your GPA will be higher at a state school than a private, elite school for undergrad. Grade inflation has already been hinted at here. Many top schools give more A's than state schools. Another factor is the type of class. I went to a non-Ivy private school and took mostly seminars. Those who go to state schools often can't avoid taking a certain number of gigantic lectures. It's a matter of personal learning style, but I thrived in the former environment and did much better in those classes. Even my math classes were relatively small (30-40 students), which lead to a better learning experience and probably higher grades.

2) In my non-scientific observations, save a couple trade professions, where you go to school matters more than what you major in wrt getting a job after college (and even if you ultimately go to law school, I'd recommend working for a bit after undergrad). My undergrad friends got jobs in business with liberal arts majors. English majors from Cornell got finance jobs in New York. Going to Harvard for undergrad will open doors for you. Even if you major in government and don't go into law. And don't feel you have to major in government. Pick a major you like. Law schools won't care, and with Harvard on your resume, many employers won't care either.

3) You will get an incredible network at Harvard. Go there, be nice, make friends, and you will have an invaluable network. People who go there are set up to do impressive things in life, and those who support each other are even better set up to succeed. People from state schools do amazing things, too, but statistically, more from Harvard will.

Disclaimer: if the state school is Berkeley, the difference is less stark; pick the coast you prefer.

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ManoftheHour
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Re: Undergraduate at Harvard or state school?

Postby ManoftheHour » Sat Apr 13, 2013 12:47 pm

Clearlynotstefan wrote:
ManoftheHour wrote:I thought it was. Maybe it is. But then why do UC students chant "state schooooollllll" as a taunt at their basketball games against the Cal States? Do the UCs have a different distinction? I've seen this at UC Santa Barbara, Davis, and Santa Cruz. I've seen this at a Santa Barbara soccer game as well.

It's either "state school" or "UC Rejects" as the most common taunt.

I believe if it starts with UC it's state. University of California at _____. Like SUNY@____. The only thing this prooves is that some state schools are harder then others, there are examples of people transferring into the state schools and gpas dropping, and the other way around. OP should go to Harvard with a useful major so he has more options.


My bad for my lack of knowledge. But yeah, Harvard with a useful major is the right way to go.

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Emma.
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Re: Undergraduate at Harvard or state school?

Postby Emma. » Sat Apr 13, 2013 1:17 pm

AlexMd wrote:I haven't committed to harvard yet. I was planning concentrating in government and then eventually go to law school. Is that bad planning on my part? :\

One of my concerns was that my GPA will be compromised at harvard, since I would have a higher GPA at a easier school.


Go to Harvard. But please don't plan on law school. Do something worthwhile with your life.

For most people on TLS it is too late, but you actually have a chance to save yourself.

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TaipeiMort
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Re: Undergraduate at Harvard or state school?

Postby TaipeiMort » Sat Apr 13, 2013 1:18 pm

Clearlynotstefan wrote:
ManoftheHour wrote:I thought it was. Maybe it is. But then why do UC students chant "state schooooollllll" as a taunt at their basketball games against the Cal States? Do the UCs have a different distinction? I've seen this at UC Santa Barbara, Davis, and Santa Cruz. I've seen this at a Santa Barbara soccer game as well.

It's either "state school" or "UC Rejects" as the most common taunt.

I believe if it starts with UC it's state. University of California at _____. Like SUNY@____. The only thing this prooves is that some state schools are harder then others, there are examples of people transferring into the state schools and gpas dropping, and the other way around. OP should go to Harvard with a useful major so he has more options.


The perception is a bit off. UCs are generally national schools, similar to the top state school in smaller states (Oregon, Washington, etc.). and non-Ivy private schools, and are generally pretty selective. CSUs are like SUNYs-- basically glorified community colleges.

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Clearly
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Re: Undergraduate at Harvard or state school?

Postby Clearly » Sat Apr 13, 2013 1:21 pm

I'm not talking about perception, I'm talking about technicality. Schools that start with University of California ________ Are invariably state schools, correct? That's what I've always thought, I'm not from Cali though.




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