Will the law schools know I ditched two colleges?

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LateBloomer81
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Will the law schools know I ditched two colleges?

Postby LateBloomer81 » Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:31 pm

I went to a community college for 2 years and did well, upon transferring I went to a small 4 year school and did terribly, I couldn't retake the classes because they were not offered ever again.

I switched schools and again, I screwed up, I was in my 20s, what can I say? I left that school too. I also left them with a lot of debt which I still owe. The schools refused to transfer over my grade to my 4th college due to nonpayment.

I did very very well in my 4th school, but I'm worried that my law school choices will dig up my other two schools.

What's more, I took some classes just for fun after graduating with a ba at my community college. I did very well in one with an A- and terribly in the other a D in Arabic. Will these things come back to haunt me?

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Will the law schools know I ditched two colleges?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:34 pm

You have to submit transcripts for all schools you've attended, so yes, law schools will see this information.

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Samara
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Re: Will the law schools know I ditched two colleges?

Postby Samara » Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:35 pm

Yup, sorry bro. LSAC cobbles together your grades from all classes you took at all schools.

LateBloomer81
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Re: Will the law schools know I ditched two colleges?

Postby LateBloomer81 » Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:36 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:You have to submit transcripts for all schools you've attended, so yes, law schools will see this information.


Right, but how will they know I attended these schools? Also, the transcripts won't be released because of non payment. If I keep my mouth shut, how will they find out?

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Will the law schools know I ditched two colleges?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:41 pm

LateBloomer81 wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:You have to submit transcripts for all schools you've attended, so yes, law schools will see this information.


Right, but how will they know I attended these schools? Also, the transcripts won't be released because of non payment. If I keep my mouth shut, how will they find out?

Well, sure, if you want to start your law school career by falsifying your applications, go for it. (You have to affirm that everything you put on your applications is true, and the applications require you to disclose all previous schools.) Plus, once you want to sit for the bar, you also have to report all your previous education, and 1) lying to C&F is a bad call, and 2) they check to make sure what your disclose matches your law school applications. But, you know, it's your funeral.

Ti Malice
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Re: Will the law schools know I ditched two colleges?

Postby Ti Malice » Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:42 pm

Don't even think of doing something so stupid. When the state bar conducts its character and fitness investigation into you and discovers this (which they will), your law degree and any scholarships will be rescinded and you will be left with nothing but six figures of non-dischargeable debt.

It's an insult to everyone that plays by the rules that you would seriously contemplate doing this. Please don't become a lawyer. The profession has enough scumbags already.

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Samara
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Re: Will the law schools know I ditched two colleges?

Postby Samara » Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:59 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
LateBloomer81 wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:You have to submit transcripts for all schools you've attended, so yes, law schools will see this information.


Right, but how will they know I attended these schools? Also, the transcripts won't be released because of non payment. If I keep my mouth shut, how will they find out?

Well, sure, if you want to start your law school career by falsifying your applications, go for it. (You have to affirm that everything you put on your applications is true, and the applications require you to disclose all previous schools.) Plus, once you want to sit for the bar, you also have to report all your previous education, and 1) lying to C&F is a bad call, and 2) they check to make sure what your disclose matches your law school applications. But, you know, it's your funeral.

This. And I believe there is some sort of clearinghouse LSAC (and probably the bar) can check to see what schools you attended based on your SSN. Especially if you have federal loans from one of them. You aren't the first person to come up with this idea.

LateBloomer81
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Re: Will the law schools know I ditched two colleges?

Postby LateBloomer81 » Sat Mar 09, 2013 7:35 pm

Sorry sorry, I didn't know it was that serious. So now, what are my chances. With a 3.86 GPA at graduation, and one FFFDD semesetr at one college, and an FfDDC semester at another college. This was about 10 years ago so my grades may have been slightly better, but I doubt any worse, I'm going by memory right now.

Considering it was 10+ will a simple addendum suffice to have them overlook this? I was depressed weighting over 300 lbs, and in my 20s. It was not a great time in my life. I'm now married, with kids, and a great career.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Will the law schools know I ditched two colleges?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sat Mar 09, 2013 8:31 pm

You should definitely write an addendum explaining the circumstances behind your earlier, lower grades, and, anecdotally, some schools will weigh a 10+ year GPA less heavily than a more recent one, especially when you can show that your more recent grades were good. (I don't know of any specific school that does this, just that I've heard of it happening). Unfortunately, the reason law schools care about grades is that they're a big component of their ranking in the USNWR rankings, and the GPA that will count for that purpose will be derived from all grades you received leading up to your first BA. (LSAC will calculate this from your submitted transcripts.) So, schools will never be able to completely overlook a low GPA. Since you can't change your GPA, you'll have to focus on killing the LSAT.

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wbrother
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Re: Will the law schools know I ditched two colleges?

Postby wbrother » Sat Mar 09, 2013 8:31 pm

LateBloomer81 wrote:Sorry sorry, I didn't know it was that serious. So now, what are my chances. With a 3.86 GPA at graduation, and one FFFDD semesetr at one college, and an FfDDC semester at another college. This was about 10 years ago so my grades may have been slightly better, but I doubt any worse, I'm going by memory right now.

Considering it was 10+ will a simple addendum suffice to have them overlook this? I was depressed weighting over 300 lbs, and in my 20s. It was not a great time in my life. I'm now married, with kids, and a great career.

Just curious, why law school?

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patrickd139
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Re: Will the law schools know I ditched two colleges?

Postby patrickd139 » Sat Mar 09, 2013 8:33 pm

wbrother wrote:
LateBloomer81 wrote:Sorry sorry, I didn't know it was that serious. So now, what are my chances. With a 3.86 GPA at graduation, and one FFFDD semesetr at one college, and an FfDDC semester at another college. This was about 10 years ago so my grades may have been slightly better, but I doubt any worse, I'm going by memory right now.

Considering it was 10+ will a simple addendum suffice to have them overlook this? I was depressed weighting over 300 lbs, and in my 20s. It was not a great time in my life. I'm now married, with kids, and a great career.

Just curious, why law school?

So much this.

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CyanIdes Of March
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Re: Will the law schools know I ditched two colleges?

Postby CyanIdes Of March » Sat Mar 09, 2013 8:42 pm

As for your addendum, please don't explain it how you did here "I was 20, so... ya know...". Most people applying are in their 20s, early 20s. Maybe highlight how you are a different person, but being 20 is not going to be enough to ignore it.

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guano
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Re: Will the law schools know I ditched two colleges?

Postby guano » Sat Mar 09, 2013 8:47 pm

LateBloomer81 wrote:Sorry sorry, I didn't know it was that serious. So now, what are my chances. With a 3.86 GPA at graduation, and one FFFDD semesetr at one college, and an FfDDC semester at another college. This was about 10 years ago so my grades may have been slightly better, but I doubt any worse, I'm going by memory right now.

Considering it was 10+ will a simple addendum suffice to have them overlook this? I was depressed weighting over 300 lbs, and in my 20s. It was not a great time in my life. I'm now married, with kids, and a great career.

get used to it. For the bar, everything is serious, and dishonest conduct will get you rejected. Do not lie or fail to disclose the truth about anything. Better to murder someone than to lie about your past.

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EvilClinton
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Re: Will the law schools know I ditched two colleges?

Postby EvilClinton » Sat Mar 09, 2013 8:52 pm

LateBloomer81 wrote:Sorry sorry, I didn't know it was that serious. So now, what are my chances. With a 3.86 GPA at graduation, and one FFFDD semesetr at one college, and an FfDDC semester at another college. This was about 10 years ago so my grades may have been slightly better, but I doubt any worse, I'm going by memory right now.

Considering it was 10+ will a simple addendum suffice to have them overlook this? I was depressed weighting over 300 lbs, and in my 20s. It was not a great time in my life. I'm now married, with kids, and a great career.

That 3.86 will be computed closer to a 2.5-3 GPA considering all the Fs and Ds. Sorry bro but that GPA will keep you out of the t14 and most of the tier one schools (even with an addendum). That is just the reality of rankings.

You should consider something other than law school.

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patrickd139
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Re: Will the law schools know I ditched two colleges?

Postby patrickd139 » Sat Mar 09, 2013 8:55 pm

guano wrote:Better to murder someone than to lie about your past.

I've never been okay with the fact that this is literally true in multiple states.

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A → B ⊨ ¬B → ¬A
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Re: Will the law schools know I ditched two colleges?

Postby A → B ⊨ ¬B → ¬A » Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:19 pm

EvilClinton wrote:That 3.86 will be computed closer to a 2.5-3 GPA considering all the Fs and Ds. Sorry bro but that GPA will keep you out of the t14 and most of the tier one schools (even with an addendum). That is just the reality of rankings.

You should consider something other than law school.


You can probably get into a T14 with a 2.5-3 GPA with an LSAT of like 172+ since the LSAT median is worth 25% more than GPA in USNWR methodology and high LSATs are rarer now, but you can count on getting very little $ if any.

You should consider something other than law school.

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kalvano
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Re: Will the law schools know I ditched two colleges?

Postby kalvano » Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:41 pm

Are you planning on taking out loans to pay for school? If you still owe a university a hefty sum, you might not be able to get loans.

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J-e-L-L-o
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Re: Will the law schools know I ditched two colleges?

Postby J-e-L-L-o » Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:19 am

kalvano wrote:Are you planning on taking out loans to pay for school? If you still owe a university a hefty sum, you might not be able to get loans.



yup. Also that's how they know what schools you went to previously. Using financial aid records.

And you have to pay those loans to get a transcript request processed.

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Ludo!
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Re: Will the law schools know I ditched two colleges?

Postby Ludo! » Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:23 am

This is one of my favorite recurring threads. Everyone thinks they're the first person to think of just not reporting their old school

LateBloomer81
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Re: Will the law schools know I ditched two colleges?

Postby LateBloomer81 » Sun Mar 10, 2013 1:03 am

After rethinking my old grades and reading how LSAC calculates this, I have a lot more insight,

I took 3 classes atone school and withdrew from one course getting an F and D..

The other school where I did two semesters I got FFDD but the following semester I retook one of the F courses and turned it into a B, I also got a D C and it her an A or B the second semester, I remember this because the teacher that gave me the retake of his class congratulated me on passing both his courses.



So now I'm looking at FDD FD DCB A/B

Not great but much more hopeful.

I was thinking of retaking the philosophy class and history class where I got an F and a D respectively. I'm sure both courses are still around. It was two experimental classes I took that disappeared the following semester. The only thing is, I don't know how LSAC will see this, as a take, or as a post grad grade that doesn't count.

As far as rethinking this, well, I really want this, partly because I really want this, and my dad may he RIP wanted this for me. If I don't get in, I don't get in,but I'm clawing my way there if there's a chance. Looking at the LSAC probability calculator, Hofstra, City u of NY, NY Law, Rutgers (Camden) Syracuse, albany, pace and Vermont are very high probabilities more the 90%.

this is with a 165 LSAT and a 2.0 GPA. It returned with a very good chance with all schools except Syracuse, Albany, Pace and Vermont if I entered a 160 LSAT. My studying is going well, and if my practice tests break 165 I'm going for it.

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EvilClinton
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Re: Will the law schools know I ditched two colleges?

Postby EvilClinton » Sun Mar 10, 2013 1:06 am

Retakes don't erase the previous grade. And any class you took after you got your initial degree (I think you mentioned some CC classes) won't count in your LSAC GPA.

Good luck, but again consider something other than law school.

rad lulz
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Re: Will the law schools know I ditched two colleges?

Postby rad lulz » Sun Mar 10, 2013 1:36 am

If you have a good career. Forget about lawl skool. It's a shit gamble and the opportunity cost for you is high.

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guano
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Re: Will the law schools know I ditched two colleges?

Postby guano » Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:42 am

LateBloomer81 wrote:Hofstra, City u of NY, NY Law, Rutgers (Camden) Syracuse, albany, pace and Vermont are very high probabilities more the 90%.

holy fucking crap, those are crappy schools. Do not, under any circumstances, attend NY Law, it's like the legal equivalent of a scarlet letter. The rest of the schools are also god awful (in terms of employment). You're flushing your life down the toilet. Don't do it.

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DCDuck
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Re: Will the law schools know I ditched two colleges?

Postby DCDuck » Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:50 am

"I really want this, partly because I really want this, and my dad may he RIP wanted this for me."

These are not good enough reasons to give up a "good career," and since you have a family, it's a much riskier proposition than it is for a single person just out of college. Law school is very expensive and the legal job market sucks. Seriously sucks. It's hard to appreciate the depths of the market's suckitude. I would not advise anyone with a "good career" to attend law school these days, even if they got into higher ranked schools than you are looking at.

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guano
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Re: Will the law schools know I ditched two colleges?

Postby guano » Sun Mar 10, 2013 9:01 am

DCDuck wrote:"I really want this, partly because I really want this, and my dad may he RIP wanted this for me."

These are not good enough reasons to give up a "good career," and since you have a family, it's a much riskier proposition than it is for a single person just out of college. Law school is very expensive and the legal job market sucks. Seriously sucks. It's hard to appreciate the depths of the market's suckitude. I would not advise anyone with a "good career" to attend law school these days, even if they got into higher ranked schools than you are looking at.

exhibit 1




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