2.79 gpa, non-urm, lsat 171 and then 173. advice?

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scottybear
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2.79 gpa, non-urm, lsat 171 and then 173. advice?

Postby scottybear » Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:44 pm

definitely a splitter. No excuse for a bad gpa, other than being young—mostly the gpa is due to a number of failed and then retaken classes in community college, did much better after transfer to a 4-year and now did well in grad school (MA).

I gather from reading that I have a long, long shot at a t-14 like georgetown, maybe UVA with ED, etc. I understand that UVA has a pretty quick ED turnaround, so that's attractive to me. How smart is it to ED at UVA? I hope to work in California, because all my ties are here (family, college, work, etc). I'd be more than happy to go to UCLA, which is probably my first choice of school. I just feel like I have less of a shot there than I do at UVA, given how much they seem to weight GPA vs. LSAT. I'd hate to ED to UVA and, on the off chance that I get in, wonder if I could have gotten into UCLA. Conversely, I don't want to apply regular decision to everywhere and just not get in anywhere.

As an additional consideration, I've heard that UVA holds relatively little weight out west compared to other, lower t-14's (georgetown, cornell, etc) just because of name recognition.

Law School Predictor gives me a Consider for UCLA, weak consider for UVA whether or not I ED, but law school numbers seem to indicate that I have a better chance at UVA or georgetown.

So, what are my chances at UCLA? UVA with or without ED? Is it worth not EDing anywhere, and blanketing the lower t-14 and t-20?


A side note:
I'm having a hard time gauging my chances anywhere. I feel like some people assign more weight to LSP, and some (most) more weight to LSN, but both are only partially accurate, yeah? When I read threads on here by people with very similar numbers to me, the general advice is to blanket the lower t-14. But LSN and LSP don't seem to indicate much of a chance at any of these schools... it's very rare that anyone with my numbers (or close) gets into the t-14 (this last cycle), and they are almost always URM. Is this just due to splitters/low GPA people not reporting, or what?

Any advice that goes beyond the scope of my questions is obviously more than welcome.

thanks all!

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Cobretti
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Re: 2.79 gpa, non-urm, lsat 171 and then 173. advice?

Postby Cobretti » Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:48 pm

If you don't have WE your best bet is probably ED UVA. UCLA is not very splitter friendly, so I wouldn't get my hopes up there. Ignore law school predictor, its bad in general and really bad for splitters.

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Icculus
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Re: 2.79 gpa, non-urm, lsat 171 and then 173. advice?

Postby Icculus » Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:50 pm

scottybear wrote:definitely a splitter. No excuse for a bad gpa, other than being young—mostly the gpa is due to a number of failed and then retaken classes in community college, did much better after transfer to a 4-year and now did well in grad school (MA).

I gather from reading that I have a long, long shot at a t-14 like georgetown, maybe UVA with ED, etc. I understand that UVA has a pretty quick ED turnaround, so that's attractive to me. How smart is it to ED at UVA? I hope to work in California, because all my ties are here (family, college, work, etc). I'd be more than happy to go to UCLA, which is probably my first choice of school. I just feel like I have less of a shot there than I do at UVA, given how much they seem to weight GPA vs. LSAT. I'd hate to ED to UVA and, on the off chance that I get in, wonder if I could have gotten into UCLA. Conversely, I don't want to apply regular decision to everywhere and just not get in anywhere.

As an additional consideration, I've heard that UVA holds relatively little weight out west compared to other, lower t-14's (georgetown, cornell, etc) just because of name recognition.

Law School Predictor gives me a Consider for UCLA, weak consider for UVA whether or not I ED, but law school numbers seem to indicate that I have a better chance at UVA or georgetown.

So, what are my chances at UCLA? UVA with or without ED? Is it worth not EDing anywhere, and blanketing the lower t-14 and t-20?


A side note:
I'm having a hard time gauging my chances anywhere. I feel like some people assign more weight to LSP, and some (most) more weight to LSN, but both are only partially accurate, yeah? When I read threads on here by people with very similar numbers to me, the general advice is to blanket the lower t-14. But LSN and LSP don't seem to indicate much of a chance at any of these schools... it's very rare that anyone with my numbers (or close) gets into the t-14 (this last cycle), and they are almost always URM. Is this just due to splitters/low GPA people not reporting, or what?

Any advice that goes beyond the scope of my questions is obviously more than welcome.

thanks all!


If you have work experience you probably have a good shot at NU of you apply early, I had a 2.79 and 173 and made it in 2 years ago. You're most likely out at UCLA and other CA schools because they love GPAs and it is doubftul they would takea sub 3.0.

LSP is not very reliable for splitters, LSN will give you a better idea of where you shoud apply.

scottybear
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Re: 2.79 gpa, non-urm, lsat 171 and then 173. advice?

Postby scottybear » Thu Mar 07, 2013 3:05 pm

thanks for the advice so far.

So, then, I have an additional question. I know that nobody knows the answer, but I would be okay with a realistic consensus from the informed masses: what are my chances at UVA? I know that most people ask "what are my chances" and often are fine with an answer like "you should apply" or "apply ED" or "don't bother", but I'm wondering about my actual chances. Do I have a good chance with ED with these numbers? A relatively poor shot? Is it like a 50-50 crapshoot? I get the feeling that it's not completely UNlikely, but it's far from a sure thing, too.

Thanks! Keep those replies coming, any and all advice is really helpful!


scottybear
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Re: 2.79 gpa, non-urm, lsat 171 and then 173. advice?

Postby scottybear » Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:35 pm

yeah. i get why people keep posting that, because most of the time it answers the question.

In this case, my question is less "where do I stand compared to others who have reported" and more "hey, why does the advice from people who seem to know their sh!t and the numbers I'm seeing on LSN not seem to be consistent?"



For example, 95% of posts when people have my numbers get advice like "you have a decent shot at UVA, NW w/ WE, GULC".

But, the numbers on LSN don't reflect this. I don't consider it a decent shot when i see my numbers and there's one green surrounded by reds and yellows.

Either this site is missing data, or the advice people are giving here is off the mark somehow. It's clear from my first post that I spend a lot of time on LSN.
So this link doesn't help me. I'm wondering if anyone has ADDITIONAL information. I want to hear from the INFORMED masses. When I put in my numbers, give or take a few points on GPA and LSAT score, I get like 5 people on LSN (for this year).

Just to be clear, LSN is a great site. But I don't think anyone can argue that for extreme splitters it's tough to find a sample size that offers tons and tons of insight :)

But, thanks for the reply anyways.

ThomasCaruthersEsq
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Re: 2.79 gpa, non-urm, lsat 171 and then 173. advice?

Postby ThomasCaruthersEsq » Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:39 pm

scottybear wrote:yeah. i get why people keep posting that, because most of the time it answers the question.

In this case, my question is less "where do I stand compared to others who have reported" and more "hey, why does the advice from people who seem to know their sh!t and the numbers I'm seeing on LSN not seem to be consistent?"



For example, 95% of posts when people have my numbers get advice like "you have a decent shot at UVA, NW w/ WE, GULC".

But, the numbers on LSN don't reflect this. I don't consider it a decent shot when i see my numbers and there's one green surrounded by reds and yellows.

Either this site is missing data, or the advice people are giving here is off the mark somehow. It's clear from my first post that I spend a lot of time on LSN.
So this link doesn't help me. I'm wondering if anyone has ADDITIONAL information. I want to hear from the INFORMED masses. When I put in my numbers, give or take a few points on GPA and LSAT score, I get like 5 people on LSN (for this year).

Just to be clear, LSN is a great site. But I don't think anyone can argue that for extreme splitters it's tough to find a sample size that offers tons and tons of insight :)

But, thanks for the reply anyways.


Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal.

Data doesn't lie.

Apply wherever you want and see what happens. No one on here can tell you anything for sure.

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Ramius
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Re: 2.79 gpa, non-urm, lsat 171 and then 173. advice?

Postby Ramius » Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:45 pm

scottybear wrote:yeah. i get why people keep posting that, because most of the time it answers the question.

In this case, my question is less "where do I stand compared to others who have reported" and more "hey, why does the advice from people who seem to know their sh!t and the numbers I'm seeing on LSN not seem to be consistent?"



For example, 95% of posts when people have my numbers get advice like "you have a decent shot at UVA, NW w/ WE, GULC".

But, the numbers on LSN don't reflect this. I don't consider it a decent shot when i see my numbers and there's one green surrounded by reds and yellows.

Either this site is missing data, or the advice people are giving here is off the mark somehow. It's clear from my first post that I spend a lot of time on LSN.
So this link doesn't help me. I'm wondering if anyone has ADDITIONAL information. I want to hear from the INFORMED masses. When I put in my numbers, give or take a few points on GPA and LSAT score, I get like 5 people on LSN (for this year).

Just to be clear, LSN is a great site. But I don't think anyone can argue that for extreme splitters it's tough to find a sample size that offers tons and tons of insight :)

But, thanks for the reply anyways.


Just expand your GPA search. Once you get below about a 3.1 (mostly guessing here, but mostly accurate), you aren't hurting their GPA median more than any other splitter in those ranks. Maybe a place like UVA or GULC will still differentiate, but you have a highly desirable LSAT they want to include in their numbers, so they'll definitely dip for you before they dip for someone lower (or possibly even higher avoiding a possible snub for a T6). If you don't get what you want, don't be afraid to walk away. This is the single best advice I can give in any major financial proposition like you're talking about.

scottybear
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Re: 2.79 gpa, non-urm, lsat 171 and then 173. advice?

Postby scottybear » Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:51 pm

yup.

With the gpa set at around 1.5 GPA and around my lsat numbers, I get less than 10 a year on average. Lsat year there were 5 coming up on LSN.

I'm excluding URM because I'm not one, but other than that, I'm searching for everything

Obviously, I might be doing something wrong. But, assuming that this website is actually pretty intuitive and I'm not messing up a search function, this isn't much to go on.

Ah, the life of a splitter

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Ramius
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Re: 2.79 gpa, non-urm, lsat 171 and then 173. advice?

Postby Ramius » Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:55 pm

scottybear wrote:yup.

With the gpa set at around 1.5 GPA and around my lsat numbers, I get less than 10 a year on average. Lsat year there were 5 coming up on LSN.

I'm excluding URM because I'm not one, but other than that, I'm searching for everything

Obviously, I might be doing something wrong. But, assuming that this website is actually pretty intuitive and I'm not messing up a search function, this isn't much to go on.

Ah, the life of a splitter


Bolded is reality. Trust me that we were in a similar boat (not as much of a splitter with a lesser LSAT and better GPA, but relying mostly on a single soft to carry me) and things ended well for me in terms of admissions. I can't say things will end the same for you, but step up to the plate, see what you get, and decide based on your knowledge of your situation what is best for you.

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Ramius
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Re: 2.79 gpa, non-urm, lsat 171 and then 173. advice?

Postby Ramius » Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:07 pm

Wormfather wrote:I agree with just about everything that's been said in this thread. But importantly, make sure you're personal statement is about growth.


So the moral of your profile is "F the early bird?"

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Ramius
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Re: 2.79 gpa, non-urm, lsat 171 and then 173. advice?

Postby Ramius » Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:17 pm

Wormfather wrote:
matthewsean85 wrote:
Wormfather wrote:I agree with just about everything that's been said in this thread. But importantly, make sure you're personal statement is about growth.


So the moral of your profile is "F the early bird?"


The whole early bird saying is bullshit from the perspective of the worm. It turns worms into some food just waiting to be plucked by the first on comer, its some real avian-normative shit.


How is that different from the naive prospective law school applicant?

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spleenworship
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Re: 2.79 gpa, non-urm, lsat 171 and then 173. advice?

Postby spleenworship » Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:45 pm

NU if have WE. ED UVA if not. Consider strongly strong regionals. U can prolly get a half or maybe even full ride.

scottybear
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Re: 2.79 gpa, non-urm, lsat 171 and then 173. advice?

Postby scottybear » Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:04 am

That's where I am so stuck.

When you say strong regionals... that's so subjective. Not your fault! But I am looking for clarification; I'd like to know what's going on in your head.

So, when you say strong regionals, you mean... t1?

I'm hoping for southern california eventually. When you're talking about a school that might give me a substantial scholarship, are you talking, like, pepperdine? Or something lower like USD or Chapman? Or lower?

I would have a very tough choice between a t-14 and some regional t1 with some money. In my mind, both are a risk. A T-14 says, "I'm going to risk working as a lawyer and need a high-paying job", but a lower school says "I'm going to live and work in this area for the rest of time"

I bet (can't say for sure) that a lower t-14 give me slightly worse job prospects as a regional, but close. Is the portability of a t-14 worth the extra cost of no scholarship? I have no idea. I'm just trying to justify my reasons for considering it a hard decision when half of the people will say "t-14 or bust" and half of the people will say "never pay sticker".

So, can I ask, what kind of regionals (like, what level-ish) were you thinking might offer some money? I have not done any research into scholarships yet, I'm just not there yet!

thanks everyone

20141023
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Re: 2.79 gpa, non-urm, lsat 171 and then 173. advice?

Postby 20141023 » Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:35 am

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Last edited by 20141023 on Mon Feb 16, 2015 1:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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spleenworship
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Re: 2.79 gpa, non-urm, lsat 171 and then 173. advice?

Postby spleenworship » Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:43 am

First, USC does ok in Cali. Apart from them, only ucla, uc irvine, uc berkeley and stanford are worth going to in Cali, imo, or you will end up unemployed or doing "shitlaw." a strong regional, imo, places better than 60% of thier grads in full time JD required positions in their state or region. Second, kappycaft1 makes some good points. Consider both what you want to do and be open to other parts of the country. Lastly, make Law School Transparency your friend. It'll tell you what schools and where people are actually getting employed.

ETA: ultimately your choice will have to be a balance between job prospects and debt. The bigger your scholly, the less employment the schools grads will have, generally speaking.

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Cobretti
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Re: 2.79 gpa, non-urm, lsat 171 and then 173. advice?

Postby Cobretti » Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:43 am

scottybear wrote:That's where I am so stuck.

When you say strong regionals... that's so subjective. Not your fault! But I am looking for clarification; I'd like to know what's going on in your head.

So, when you say strong regionals, you mean... t1?

I'm hoping for southern california eventually. When you're talking about a school that might give me a substantial scholarship, are you talking, like, pepperdine? Or something lower like USD or Chapman? Or lower?

I would have a very tough choice between a t-14 and some regional t1 with some money. In my mind, both are a risk. A T-14 says, "I'm going to risk working as a lawyer and need a high-paying job", but a lower school says "I'm going to live and work in this area for the rest of time"

I bet (can't say for sure) that a lower t-14 give me slightly worse job prospects as a regional, but close. Is the portability of a t-14 worth the extra cost of no scholarship? I have no idea. I'm just trying to justify my reasons for considering it a hard decision when half of the people will say "t-14 or bust" and half of the people will say "never pay sticker".

So, can I ask, what kind of regionals (like, what level-ish) were you thinking might offer some money? I have not done any research into scholarships yet, I'm just not there yet!

thanks everyone

As a fellow socal splitter... you're in for troubles. West coast schools are notoriously less splitter friendly than others. You have a better shot at RD NU/ ED UVA than ED UCLA probably... You're in at UCI if you want it though. If you want PI, UCI really doesn't seem to be a bad choice. If you really want biglaw it might not be a good choice though... So what exactly do you want in socal?

You still haven't responded to all of us telling you to go NU if you have WE though. Do you have work experience?

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Dr. Dre
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Re: 2.79 gpa, non-urm, lsat 171 and then 173. advice?

Postby Dr. Dre » Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:55 am

UCI is TTTT; don't go there

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Cobretti
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Re: 2.79 gpa, non-urm, lsat 171 and then 173. advice?

Postby Cobretti » Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:27 am

Dr. Dre wrote:UCI is TTTT; don't go there

you're quickly becoming a novelty account for uci trolling

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Re: 2.79 gpa, non-urm, lsat 171 and then 173. advice?

Postby scottybear » Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:49 am

ah.

Work experience... I have "some".

I worked part time through all of undergrad, worked part time through most of grad school. There was a few months in there where I worked construction full-time.

My understanding is that NU counts all work as work, so I guess this all might be in my favor, but I am also aware the lots of people have lots of better work experience. Not sure if quality or even quantity matters so much.

I'm glad someone brought up irvine. What's the deal with that? I can't get a handle on how good of a school it is. Their placement stats look better than what I might expect, but some people claim that this is because of a LOT of string-pulling by the faculty to make UCI look good, which I assume is true to a certain extent, but i have no idea how much.

the consensus seems to be that it will debut pretty high in the rankings, but then from there people seem torn about whether it will stay high or slip, and how long a slip might take.

what do y'all think about irvine? not trying to start a war or anything, so I hope people's opinions can be respected as just opinions and not commented on once they're posted, but I am interested in any info on UCI

thanks!

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Cobretti
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Re: 2.79 gpa, non-urm, lsat 171 and then 173. advice?

Postby Cobretti » Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:52 pm

NU tends to count all full time WE as WE.

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Icculus
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Re: 2.79 gpa, non-urm, lsat 171 and then 173. advice?

Postby Icculus » Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:56 pm

mrizza wrote:NU tends to count all full time WE as WE.


This.

PRgradBYU
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Re: 2.79 gpa, non-urm, lsat 171 and then 173. advice?

Postby PRgradBYU » Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:03 pm

mrizza wrote:
Dr. Dre wrote:UCI is TTTT; don't go there

you're quickly becoming a novelty account for uci trolling


Haha. Dre, do you have a personal vendetta against UCI?

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Re: 2.79 gpa, non-urm, lsat 171 and then 173. advice?

Postby ManoftheHour » Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:18 pm

PRgradBYU wrote:
mrizza wrote:
Dr. Dre wrote:UCI is TTTT; don't go there

you're quickly becoming a novelty account for uci trolling


Haha. Dre, do you have a personal vendetta against UCI?


Probably because he's black, and there ain't no blacks at UCI.

scottybear
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Re: 2.79 gpa, non-urm, lsat 171 and then 173. advice?

Postby scottybear » Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:18 pm

one other question.

The advice for splitters seem to be "ED virginia". How much of a boost does this give you? I've been pouring over LSN and it there's such a small sample size it's hard to judge.
UVA seems to have accepted some people under my numbers that didn't appear to ED, and they appear to have rejected people around my numbers who didn't ED. they seem to be WL a ton of people above my numbers, too. Is this the soft reject I've heard so much about, or is this just how they roll?

The problem with ED is that I lose all chances for all scholarship money. I'd love to go to uva, but I wish I could see what the best school is that would give me a half or more scholarship. Is there a SIGNIFICANT advantage to applying ED, or is it just more of a gamble to apply RD? Or is it the case that they take people ED that they would never, ever consider RD? Even applying on the first day of cycle?

Also, does applying ED to virginia early make any difference over applying on the last day before ED ends?

Again, I'm a 2.8/173. Even with the cycles shaping up the way they are, am I looking at being locked out of the t-14 entirely without ED?

Would it be possible to change that with a retake in June, and with what score am I looking at needing?

thanks for any advice!




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