Wayne Splitzky here! Low GPA, High LSAT

Not sure where your numbers will get you? Dying to know where you stand? Come have your palms read by your fellow posters!
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somewhatwayward
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Re: Wayne Splitzky here! Low GPA, High LSAT

Postby somewhatwayward » Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:42 pm

john7234797 wrote:I would challenge the OP to get a 4.0 this semester. If you can't pull at least a 3.8 on the semester then re-consider Law School. It's one thing to say you'll flip the switch and another to do it. Undergrad is going to be significantly easier and with a much lighter workload than Law School. If you're too unmotivated to crank out some Econ homework then I don't know how you expect to get above average grades in Law School compared to people that have had good study skills since high school.


I think this is a good approach although I would say aim for a 4.0 for the rest of college. If you can do that, you at least have a little bit of empirical proof that you can turn things around although law school is just so much harder than undergrad (not the material itself but the fact that, at least 1L year, it is pretty boring; there is a lot of it; and you are competing against other smart people for few As) that you should still proceed with caution. Paul Tough's book How Children Succeed discusses what things other than intelligence help people succeed in school, and it turns out (not terribly surprisingly) that people who are successful are reasonably smart but also internally motivated and disciplined, most importantly able to motivate themselves to show up regularly and on time and complete tedious tasks that may seem pointless that they are assigned by others. The people with those traits are also way more likely to be successful professionally and make more money, which is also not terribly surprising given that a job is all about being reliable and being able to take orders an complete tasks that don't interest you. The good news is that you can develop these traits. That's why I think the get-a-4.0-from-here-on-out challenge is a good idea. You can test whether you are developing these crucial traits.

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Yukos
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Re: Wayne Splitzky here! Low GPA, High LSAT

Postby Yukos » Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:00 pm

Wormfather wrote:TBF, I didnt realize I was a slacker until I got a T3 acceptance and had to face the last semester of senior year.

Zero fucks.


Epic humblebrag.

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cahwc12
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Re: Wayne Splitzky here! Low GPA, High LSAT

Postby cahwc12 » Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:21 pm

Wormfather wrote:You do know that work ethic is something that can change. And someone finishing UG with a wall of As is possible proof of that.

Dude fucked up, he knows it. No need to treat him like shit.


I could have been a bit more tactful, but I posted what I think is a reasonable evaluation of his position. He obviously knows he has screwed up with the poor GPA. The problem is that he believes he can recover when he really can't. His best case scenario is a deal that people with better numbers than him are walking away from, and many of the ones that don't are regretting it.

Don't give him false hope by telling him he can just take classes and fix his GPA. The math doesn't add up and he's still going to be looking at sticker price at any top school he is admitted to.

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This is a graph of his GPA if he takes X number of credits at 4.0 average, including 2.3*75 = 172.5 GPA hours accrued thus far.

Realistically, he's looking at maybe a 2.8-9 if he took an extra semester or two and really worked hard on getting the best possible grades. It takes time to learn how to make A's when you never have, and he has to learn how to do it.

And if he assumes a GPA around there, he's looking at lower T14 sticker with a chance at mid T14, depending on how badly they need his LSAT score to maintain their numbers.

OP you need to think long and hard about whether that's a deal you want to take. You should strive for good grades just for their own sake, but before you over-invest in this proposition of law school, you need to decide whether this best case scenario is one you would even take. Probably it isn't (it shouldn't be), but only you can answer that.

If you're willing to take on $300k debt to go to a top law school for about a 50% chance at getting a "good" job. Just realize that every person that goes to law school believes he or she will beat the odds, and the odds say that half of them will end up unemployed. Most of those end up unemployed and with substantial debt. You could end up very happy going to law school and getting a great job as a lawyer, but the deck is heavily stacked against you, and you need to understand this to make an informed decision.

tml2891
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Re: Wayne Splitzky here! Low GPA, High LSAT

Postby tml2891 » Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:09 pm

cahwc12 wrote:
tml2891 wrote:
tabula rasa wrote:
tml2891 wrote:I know I can turn it around if I really put some effort into it.

Then what are you waiting for?


I am starting now... hopefully it isn't too late. I was a dummy for too long. I only now realize how badly I messed up.
I am going to aim for a 3.5+ for my remaining three undergrad semesters... hopefully this can bring my overall GPA up.



Don't go to law school. If you can't make or even aspire to make A's in a fluff major like "Business Economics" you are suffering from acute special snowflake syndrome or some other mild form of disillusionment. A 3.5 is not "turning it around." If you have a 2.3, you need a wall of A's to finish your degree, and even then things don't look good for you.
.....


Thank you for your insight
The only reason I set my goal at a 3.5 for this semester at LEAST... is only because its more realistic considering my poor study habits before. Of course I'd want A's across the board until graduation... and I will definitely aim for 4.0 from here on out.

That being said...
I have not made up my mind yet about whether or not I truly want to attend law school.
I completely understand your point of view. But what is really "scaring" me from choosing a different career path is that, I have no idea what else to do...

Also, is paying $300k just an over exaggeration? Sticker tuition is like what? 50k a year? Just curious is all...
But yea, I really just have no idea what else I can do with my Business Economics degree. Mainly because I don't know what I can do to make myself "stand out" better... if I were to not utilize my LSAT score.

I have been considering Wormfather's suggestion of taking a year off and maxing out CC credits in order to bring up my GPA... But I am still debating whether or not that is the best option...

BUT if I were to consider this option of taking 1 year off and it really did not matter what classes I took during that 1 year... then to make it worth while I would probably look to take at least 50-60 credits that one year... fall/summer/spring.

Again, I am still unsure whether or not this is the best choice, as this is the first time I've ever heard of this option/route.
Any further insight into this strategy would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you everyone for your comments, negative and positive. I was/am fully prepared for a bit of negativity before deciding to come here. Frankly, I don't give a shit if its negative or positive, as long as it is constructive criticism/advice, I am completely open and very appreciative of the help.

P.S. How much of an effect will my work experience have? I don't have much "work work" experience but currently I have done 1 overseas internship at a large manufacturing/supply firm (China, also fluent in Mandarin) and I have another internship this coming summer at a large American based retail firm. Aside from that, I have some volunteer work / short work experiences in high school.

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Icculus
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Re: Wayne Splitzky here! Low GPA, High LSAT

Postby Icculus » Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:38 pm

Remember, sticker includes tuition + living expenses + interest on your loans.

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cahwc12
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Re: Wayne Splitzky here! Low GPA, High LSAT

Postby cahwc12 » Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:20 am

tml2891 wrote:P.S. How much of an effect will my work experience have? I don't have much "work work" experience but currently I have done 1 overseas internship at a large manufacturing/supply firm (China, also fluent in Mandarin) and I have another internship this coming summer at a large American based retail firm. Aside from that, I have some volunteer work / short work experiences in high school.


Have you looked into teaching English in China? Or if your UG is somewhat prestigious, you could teach something like SAT/ACT prep there and make a pretty good living there with light hours. I have friends who have done each, and I've also taught overseas and loved the time. If you're fluent in mandarin, use that to your advantage, especially if you already have experience overseas.

A friend of mine is working as a doc editor at a well-known firm in Beijing, and is looking at Penn sticker right now (with basically your inverse numbers). For him, that investment makes much more sense because he is also nearly fluent in mandarin with strong work experience, and the prestige of a top law school carries a lot of weight there. These jobs are elusive because most people who want them have no international experience, but they exist and it's definitely possible to get one with the right combination of credentials and experience. For someone looking at sticker directly from UG with no real world experience, no ties, etc it's much more likely to be a bad decision.

Taking time off is extremely good for most, and Northwestern (moreso than others) look very positively toward applicants with strong work experience and will tend to overlook poor GPAs more in lieu of solid WE. Your LSAT combined with a 2.8 could get you sticker at NU, but if you have the ability to parlay NU sticker to a few years working in a major metropolitan city in China (and also pass some national test that demonstrates your fluency), you'll be in a much stronger position to get what you want.

Plus, if you end up deciding that law school isn't for you at any point, you'll still have some fantastic international work experience under your belt to get a different real job. COL is very low in China, and even though the salaries aren't typically too high compared to US salaries for comparable work, you can easily save most of your paycheck if you tend to live frugally.

tml2891
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Re: Wayne Splitzky here! Low GPA, High LSAT

Postby tml2891 » Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:19 pm

cahwc12 wrote:
tml2891 wrote:P.S. How much of an effect will my work experience have? I don't have much "work work" experience but currently I have done 1 overseas internship at a large manufacturing/supply firm (China, also fluent in Mandarin) and I have another internship this coming summer at a large American based retail firm. Aside from that, I have some volunteer work / short work experiences in high school.


Taking time off is extremely good for most, and Northwestern (moreso than others) look very positively toward applicants with strong work experience and will tend to overlook poor GPAs more in lieu of solid WE. Your LSAT combined with a 2.8 could get you sticker at NU, but if you have the ability to parlay NU sticker to a few years working in a major metropolitan city in China (and also pass some national test that demonstrates your fluency), you'll be in a much stronger position to get what you want.


I have definitely considered getting some overseas experience prior to applying to law school. I plan on doing another overseas internship in Vietnam the summer of 2014. But as for teaching SAT/ACT/English overseas as a career? No thanks! I know it pays decently but teaching has never crossed my mind as a potential career path.

I understand that the workload in UG is nothing compared to Law School... but I am prepared for it. Despite my lack of effort in the past, I CAN handle a heavy workload. I am just trying to claw my way back up so I can get the opportunity to prove it.

This obviously depends on the Uni, but is it typically possible to not declare graduation / delay getting degree even after acquiring sufficient credits to do so? I only ask because after my 4th year, I would still like the option of taking additional credits at other institutions before getting my degree... in order to bring up my GPA before submitting to LSAC. (As Wormfather suggested)

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kalvano
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Re: Wayne Splitzky here! Low GPA, High LSAT

Postby kalvano » Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:27 pm

I just wanted to applaud OP for "Wayne Splitzky." Awesome.




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