What sort of scholly? 180, 3.17 w/ reason for GPA *edit* Forum

[KFV]

173. Retaking on Saturday, PT range is 177-180, very confident I'll be there Edit: 180

3.17, Business (Finance). Actually have a valid response to the "reason why GPA doesn't reflect ability" question. Undiagnosed disability, got diagnosis/help, came back a year later... 3.46 over 92 credits from then on... showed improvement over time e.g. 4.0 in final semester, 3.92 in my upper-level Finance courses

Have good (but not super) softs and good (but not extraordinary) work experience... and of course the disability to the extent that it adds diversity
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Edit: I applied to Columbia, NYU, UPenn, Cornell, Northwestern, UVa and USC. Any idea what sort of scholly offers I can expect? I know it's hard to predict with splitters but any info is greatly appreciated! I am poor so I need a pretty large scholly to be able to go.

[togepi]

173. Retaking on Saturday, PT range is 177-180, very confident I'll be there

3.17, Business (Finance). Actually have a valid response to the "reason why GPA doesn't reflect ability" question. Undiagnosed disability, got diagnosis/help, came back a year later... 3.46 over 92 credits from then on... showed improvement over time e.g. 4.0 in final semester, 3.92 in my upper-level Finance courses

Have good (but not super) softs and good (but not extraordinary) work experience... and of course the disability to the extent that it adds diversity

For various reasons waiting until next cycle is not a tenable option.

I'm wondering what sort of schools I have a shot at getting a full ride to, or at least a massive scholarship. Both with the 173 and with a 177-180.

Sorry for the long post but I wanted to make sure all relevant factors were clear. Any and all info/advice is appreciated.

If large scholarship/full-ride > T-14 I would say apply to schools like Minnesota/Alabama.

[KFV]

Thanks for the response. So that's even if I score 177+ on the retake? Damn, was hoping I might have a small shot at Cornell/NU.

Sorry, I should've mentioned this in my OP: I'm Canadian, and I've heard a few horror stories about Canadians getting American degrees and then not finding firms that will hire them unless they already have a visa. From what I've read only the firms in major financial centres have a good history of aiding international grads with the visa process if they decide they want to hire them, so I'm mostly looking at NY/Mass/Illinois/Cali schools. So based on the schools you suggested, maybe BU/BC/Fordham?

Unfortunately money does trump the t14 because I'm not even eligible for private student loans unless I have an American co-signer (which I don't)... out of curiosity/masochism, where on the t14 would I have a shot at if I were able to pay sticker?

[shieldofachilles]

Thanks for the response. So that's even if I score 177+ on the retake? Damn, was hoping I might have a small shot at Cornell/NU.

Sorry, I should've mentioned this in my OP: I'm Canadian, and I've heard a few horror stories about Canadians getting American degrees and then not finding firms that will hire them unless they already have a visa. From what I've read only the firms in major financial centres have a good history of aiding international grads with the visa process if they decide they want to hire them, so I'm mostly looking at NY/Mass/Illinois/Cali schools. So based on the schools you suggested, maybe BU/BC/Fordham?

Unfortunately money does trump the t14 because I'm not even eligible for private student loans unless I have an American co-signer (which I don't)... out of curiosity/masochism, where on the t14 would I have a shot at if I were able to pay sticker?

from the looks of mylsn with a 173 youd have somewhat of shot at penn, nw, uva, and gtown. with a 177, and its funny this happens, every school closes up except nyu gtown and northwesters (so i wouldnt look too much into that data since its an especially small pool applicants). From what ive read on TLS super splitters like you probably have their best shot at northwestern or ed uva.

[KStreetCashMoney]

176, 2.9 here, with a very strong "gpa does not reflect ability" addendum... in that i entered into a non-graded major, so virtually nothing i did after freshman year was graded... straight C's first semester freshman year and did excellent work in upper level classes... honors, great recs, prestigious school.

Schools don't care about anything but your numbers when doling out cash. You will get into some excellent schools. But don't expect a full ride or anything close from a top 50 law school. I got into NU, UVA, took myself off the waitlist at NYU when I got into UVA.

Having massive doubts now about paying sticker at UVA, but it's a far better option than any of the scholarships I was offered. I even had several admission people at different schools state point blank, when I was negotiating for more $, that even though they knew my GPA was essentially meaningless, their hands were tied because there was so much pressure on them to cater to USNEWS rankings. One even apologized and expressed how frustrated she was working in such a system.

Going from a 173 to a 177-180 probably won't change your situation at any law school in the country except NYU. If you can hit 175 then it may very well get you into NYU, but you're a longshot at HYSCC even with a 180, and to every school outside the top 6 a 173 is just as good as a 179.

Your 3.17 should play differently than my <3, but you may just have to "settle" for T14 at sticker. You might get some money from Georgetown or Northwestern, but it wouldn't be much. I hope I'm wrong, Good luck! Oh, and why no Canadian law schools?

[nebula666]

You could get 75-100k+ from WUSTL.

[bdubs]

Unless you're a URM, you aren't going to get a full ride to a school that you should attend.

[somewhatwayward]

Generally full rides go to people above both the GPA and LSAT median or even only above the GPA and LSAT 75th percentiles. A school with a 170/3.85 median and a 172 75th percentile LSAT would prefer a 173, 3.9 over a 180, 3.17 and would probably prefer a 170, 3.9 over a 180, 3.17 also because at least the 170, 3.9 maintains both medians. The problem is that a 3.17 is below the median of every school worth attending even with a full ride, so getting a full ride to a place worth going will be an uphill battle. You could try applying to various special programs that give full rides that aren't totally based on numbers...I think NYU has one related to economics. They definitely have one for people who are the first in their family to go to college. Obviously those are very competitive because everyone is interested.

UVA, Georgetown, NU, and maybe Penn will give you partial scholarships with your current numbers. I am not sure how a 177-180 would affect those scholarship numbers, but I would be surprised if it got them anywhere near a full ride for the reasons explained above. Why not stay in Canada and go to one of your super cheap law schools? I thought the median LSAT of the best one was 165 so it seems like you would have a good shot there. The visa concern is also good to think about now. There is a thread in the Legal Employment forum called something like 'V15 OCI interviewer taking questions' and some international students asked about the difficulties of getting hired at big firms as a non-US citizen. You should go find that and read it. I believe he said that firms are willing to put the time in to hire international students with amazing credentials, but if you are borderline (eg, median a T14), firms may choose to just hire one of the huge number of borderline candidates who are citizens instead. This means that you have a lower margin of error than the typical US law student if you are shooting for a big firm. This to me would also point toward getting the cheap Canadian JD instead of the expensive American JD. I would be a nervous wreck coming into a T14 law school thinking that I needed to hit top quarter or better to feel safe for hiring purposes.

What is the legal market like in Canada for Canadians with US JDs? Would that be a backup? Do you know if non-big-law employers in the US will hire non-citizens? All things to think about because you don't want to put all your eggs in the big law basket.

[KFV]

Hey everyone, thanks for the responses. A lot of useful info.

I did apply to Canadian schools too and I will go to UBC if I don't end up going to the States.

KSCM, thanks for explaining your sich... gives me a good idea of what I'm looking at.

swww, I found that thread, thanks. Yeah, these are exactly the kind of questions I'm trying to figure out. Everything I've read indicates that having a US JD would pose problems for me trying to get work in Canada, but I plan on focusing on corporate law and I would think it would be one of the few areas where that might not be the case (or at least not to nearly as significant an extent as other areas), so I'm still looking into it.

[CFprez]

So are you applying for this cycle? Or are you going to wait it out and apply next year? I am really interested in seeing how your apps go since I am practice testing about that range and have a similar GPA with an strong upward trend.

Also curious how the unusual cycle this year will affect chances for super splitters this year.

[KFV]

I'm applying this cycle, unfortunately. I would've preferred to have applied earlier in the cycle but I just assumed I had no shot at any good American schools until I stumbled on TLS a couple months ago and found out how rare high scores were and how much American schools care about the LSAT (no Canadian school values LSAT more than GPA).

[CFprez]

As much as TLS sometimes seems to be the internet form of a greek/middle school/locker room/ secret prefige society at yale it can actually be very helpful and a great resource. Good luck

[KFV]

Bump for edit.

[Rahviveh]

Congrats on the fantastic score.


Unfortunately, I would expect modest or no schollies at T14s.

[KFV]

Damn, really? That's too bad. Just can't seem to shake stuff that happened back when I was 18... thanks for the response!

[guano]

Sorry, I should've mentioned this in my OP: I'm Canadian, and I've heard a few horror stories about Canadians getting American degrees and then not finding firms that will hire them unless they already have a visa.

Considering the glut of american lawyers, why should they go sponsor you?
I can't imagine anyone going through the hassle unless you're a top student at a top school.

[Cobretti]

Damn, really? That's too bad. Just can't seem to shake stuff that happened back when I was 18... thanks for the response!

Welcome to the club

[KFV]

Sorry, I should've mentioned this in my OP: I'm Canadian, and I've heard a few horror stories about Canadians getting American degrees and then not finding firms that will hire them unless they already have a visa.

Considering the glut of american lawyers, why should they go sponsor you?
I can't imagine anyone going through the hassle unless you're a top student at a top school.

Which is why I won't be going to the States unless it's to a top school...

[buns]

Lawyers fall under the NAFTA umbrella... so you only need to get a TN visa to work as a lawyer in the US. They are very easy to obtain and you will have no problems getting one if you are hired by a US firm.

The Canadians I know that attended T14s had no problems during OCIs -- heck I'm at a Canadian school and I know about a dozen people in my class headed to NYC (mostly to V10s). Anyways, just wanted to clear up the visa issue for you so it's one less thing to worry about in your situation -- congrats on the dope LSAT score from a fellow canuck!