Delusional? NYU?

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Crowing
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Re: Delusional? NYU?

Postby Crowing » Fri Feb 01, 2013 2:33 pm

i think softs are undervalued by tls. but the fact remains that your typical "good softs" will not overcome 3.4/169 at NYU.

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domino
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Re: Delusional? NYU?

Postby domino » Fri Feb 01, 2013 2:38 pm

deputydog wrote: lolno.


The prestige of your UG does not matter, they have no incentive to admit a lower GPA because it says Dartmouth.

Re the difficulty of getting a good GPA at a top UG, have you ever heard of grade inflation? There is a reason why the LSAT is weighted so heavily.


The incentive is that they want to admit students they are confident know how to write and handle a heavy academic workload--knowing that students have succeeded in a rigorous academic UG program is good for this. Beyond needing to stay afloat and at where they want to be in the rankings, law schools want to build a strong class.

How law schools actually balance these incentives is a question of fact, though. As far as I know, we don't have the aggregated info we'd need to test this.

BigZuck
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Re: Delusional? NYU?

Postby BigZuck » Fri Feb 01, 2013 2:39 pm

Domino- evidence that it is harder to get an A- gpa from an Ivy than it is from a state school?

If anything, I would think it would be the exact opposite at a lot of high ranked private schools.

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052220151
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Re: Delusional? NYU?

Postby 052220151 » Fri Feb 01, 2013 2:43 pm

BigZuck wrote:Domino- evidence that it is harder to get an A- gpa from an Ivy than it is from a state school?

If anything, I would think it would be the exact opposite at a lot of high ranked private schools.


That would be my inclination as well.

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domino
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Re: Delusional? NYU?

Postby domino » Fri Feb 01, 2013 2:56 pm

BigZuck wrote:Domino- evidence that it is harder to get an A- gpa from an Ivy than it is from a state school?

If anything, I would think it would be the exact opposite at a lot of high ranked private schools.


I have only anecdotal evidence for this, so take it as you will. However, there was a big state campus near my UG where we could also take classes, and people would often say that it was way easier to get good grades there. The few people I've kept in touch with from my hometown who went to our state school also claim not to have been challenged at all, and they did very well in school. Fewer people as a proportion of the student body get an A- at most state schools, I'd bet--but that doesn't mean it's harder to get an A-. I would attribute the difference more to culture (people tend to care less about school and might have other responsibilities, more need for real jobs to pay off loans/support family etc.) and strong selection for academic performance into top schools.

It probably depends a lot on people's choices and goals--a state student at a school with a strong philosophy grad program who ends up working closely with the professors there is probably going to have a more rigorous experience than someone at Swarthmore who takes all gut courses.

I would guess that there is less coddling at state schools, though. So if you are really messed up one semester and screw up your coursework, you will get a D instead of a B-. Or if you turn in a paper a day late, you will fail as opposed to getting a slap on the wrist and an A-. That could be a difference.

drive4showLSAT4dough
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Re: Delusional? NYU?

Postby drive4showLSAT4dough » Fri Feb 01, 2013 2:57 pm

Crowing wrote:i think softs are undervalued by tls. but the fact remains that your typical "good softs" will not overcome 3.4/169 at NYU.



Maybe undervalued on TLS (ie worth 1% to adcomms, while tls assumes they are worth .5%)

But TYPICAL, by definition, means that they are normal, to be expected, average, and therefore, will not add value.

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052220151
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Re: Delusional? NYU?

Postby 052220151 » Fri Feb 01, 2013 2:59 pm

domino wrote:
BigZuck wrote:Domino- evidence that it is harder to get an A- gpa from an Ivy than it is from a state school?

If anything, I would think it would be the exact opposite at a lot of high ranked private schools.


I have only anecdotal evidence for this, so take it as you will. However, there was a big state campus near my UG where we could also take classes, and people would often say that it was way easier to get good grades there. The few people I've kept in touch with from my hometown who went to our state school also claim not to have been challenged at all, and they did very well in school. Fewer people as a proportion of the student body get an A- at most state schools, I'd bet--but that doesn't mean it's harder to get an A-. I would attribute the difference more to culture (people tend to care less about school and might have other responsibilities, more need for real jobs to pay off loans/support family etc.) and strong selection for academic performance into top schools.

It probably depends a lot on people's choices and goals--a state student at a school with a strong philosophy grad program who ends up working closely with the professors there is probably going to have a more rigorous experience than someone at Swarthmore who takes all gut courses.

I would guess that there is less coddling at state schools, though. So if you are really messed up one semester and screw up your coursework, you will get a D instead of a B-. Or if you turn in a paper a day late, you will fail as opposed to getting a slap on the wrist and an A-. That could be a difference.


lolz. So you're saying grade inflation is an issue a top UGs? I agree.

ETA: I like the swipe about those stupid and lazy proles that go to state school.
Last edited by 052220151 on Fri Feb 01, 2013 3:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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domino
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Re: Delusional? NYU?

Postby domino » Fri Feb 01, 2013 3:01 pm

deputydog wrote:
domino wrote:
BigZuck wrote:Domino- evidence that it is harder to get an A- gpa from an Ivy than it is from a state school?

If anything, I would think it would be the exact opposite at a lot of high ranked private schools.


I have only anecdotal evidence for this, so take it as you will. However, there was a big state campus near my UG where we could also take classes, and people would often say that it was way easier to get good grades there. The few people I've kept in touch with from my hometown who went to our state school also claim not to have been challenged at all, and they did very well in school. Fewer people as a proportion of the student body get an A- at most state schools, I'd bet--but that doesn't mean it's harder to get an A-. I would attribute the difference more to culture (people tend to care less about school and might have other responsibilities, more need for real jobs to pay off loans/support family etc.) and strong selection for academic performance into top schools.

It probably depends a lot on people's choices and goals--a state student at a school with a strong philosophy grad program who ends up working closely with the professors there is probably going to have a more rigorous experience than someone at Swarthmore who takes all gut courses.

I would guess that there is less coddling at state schools, though. So if you are really messed up one semester and screw up your coursework, you will get a D instead of a B-. Or if you turn in a paper a day late, you will fail as opposed to getting a slap on the wrist and an A-. That could be a difference.


lolz. So you're saying grade inflation is an issue a top UGs? I agree.


In my experience, the scale is compressed in the sense it is very hard to end up at the bottom. But there is still differentiation at the top.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Delusional? NYU?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Fri Feb 01, 2013 3:03 pm

I kinda agree that at the tippy top, school might matter - in that if you're Yale and you could fill your class with 4.0/180 students, you might compare schools. But I don't agree it's harder to get a 4.0 at Harvard than at a state school (my high school sent a lot of people to Harvard - not me, but smarter people! - and they invariably said the hard part is getting in, not doing well once there). Even so, I think at the point a school's comparing all the 4.0/180 people, the issue isn't going to a "better" school (or having a "harder" major), it's about putting together a class collectively that does what you want it to. That's why softs matter so much to Yale (according to common wisdom) - they don't want a class made up of people who all look the same on paper, they want people who make an interesting mix. If they already have a lot of Harvard alums in the class, another Harvard alum could easily lose out to someone from a "lesser" school who has something that all the other admits don't already have (founded a non-profit. first chair violin in local orchestra from age 12. former NFL player - whatever). But in another year, they might have lots of former NFL players (or whatever) and go for something else.

All that said: this is probably only relevant for 1% of applicants. Below that point, it's numbers.

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Crowing
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Re: Delusional? NYU?

Postby Crowing » Fri Feb 01, 2013 3:07 pm

drive4showLSAT4dough wrote:
Crowing wrote:i think softs are undervalued by tls. but the fact remains that your typical "good softs" will not overcome 3.4/169 at NYU.



Maybe undervalued on TLS (ie worth 1% to adcomms, while tls assumes they are worth .5%)

But TYPICAL, by definition, means that they are normal, to be expected, average, and therefore, will not add value.


you're picking individual words out of context

typical =/= typical good

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h_jane_w
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Re: Delusional? NYU?

Postby h_jane_w » Fri Feb 01, 2013 5:49 pm

deputydog wrote:
h_jane_w wrote:
CR2012 wrote:Working for in Europe for a drug company right now.
Public UG
No URM


Omygod you are still no help.

How many years have you worked? Is this all your work experience? Public UG ranked 200 or 50? Do you have any previous internship? leadership?
So you're working in Europe but you're an American citizen right? That might help slightly with diversity. How many years have you lived in europe? do you speak any other languages?


Why are you asking for this info? It won't change anything. There are three pieces of info we need, LSAT, GPA, and URM status. Your UG ranking means jack shit, so does fluency in another language. Softs short of Rhodes scholar/Olympian/cancer cure/world famous porn star have no effect on your admission.


This is a lie because I'm pretty sure I got into NYU due to my softs (which were awesome). 3.45, 164, URM.

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h_jane_w
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Re: Delusional? NYU?

Postby h_jane_w » Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:02 pm

OP, as you can see from this person
http://lawschoolnumbers.com/paralegalle/jd
If you go to an Ivy, that DOES give you an edge when applying to law school. Why? Because you are basically telling them you are a smarter person. Period.
If you don't apply, you have no chance of getting in.
If you do apply, well, who the fuck knows. Apply.

I don't know who in TLS decided softs don't matter, but they are wrong. WE, especially relevant work experience, as well as attending a top UG DO help when applying to law school.

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Rahviveh
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Re: Delusional? NYU?

Postby Rahviveh » Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:12 pm

h_jane_w wrote:
deputydog wrote:
h_jane_w wrote:
CR2012 wrote:Working for in Europe for a drug company right now.
Public UG
No URM


Omygod you are still no help.

How many years have you worked? Is this all your work experience? Public UG ranked 200 or 50? Do you have any previous internship? leadership?
So you're working in Europe but you're an American citizen right? That might help slightly with diversity. How many years have you lived in europe? do you speak any other languages?


Why are you asking for this info? It won't change anything. There are three pieces of info we need, LSAT, GPA, and URM status. Your UG ranking means jack shit, so does fluency in another language. Softs short of Rhodes scholar/Olympian/cancer cure/world famous porn star have no effect on your admission.


This is a lie because I'm pretty sure I got into NYU due to my softs (which were awesome). 3.45, 164, URM.


I agree TLS underrates softs, but unless you count URM status as a soft then that alone was enough to explain your admission

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h_jane_w
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Re: Delusional? NYU?

Postby h_jane_w » Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:13 pm

What about paralegalle? That person wasn't a URM. She was just from an Ivy.

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Rahviveh
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Re: Delusional? NYU?

Postby Rahviveh » Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:20 pm

h_jane_w wrote:What about paralegalle? That person wasn't a URM. She was just from an Ivy.


We don't know what else was in that persons application to definitively say it was her Ivy UG that got her in. She snuck in off the waitlist in late July, her numbers aren't outrageously low for NYU. Everyone in this thread agrees OP has very little chance, and if he/she does get in it'll be off the WL.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: Delusional? NYU?

Postby JamMasterJ » Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:21 pm

see if you can get a fee waiver and only pay the 20 bucks or whatever. otherwise, it's probably not worth it

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francesfarmer
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Re: Delusional? NYU?

Postby francesfarmer » Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:25 pm

JamMasterJ wrote:see if you can get a fee waiver and only pay the 20 bucks or whatever. otherwise, it's probably not worth it

NYU is a dick about fee waivers but maybe they're desperate at this point. Probably not though.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: Delusional? NYU?

Postby JamMasterJ » Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:28 pm

francesfarmer wrote:
JamMasterJ wrote:see if you can get a fee waiver and only pay the 20 bucks or whatever. otherwise, it's probably not worth it

NYU is a dick about fee waivers but maybe they're desperate at this point. Probably not though.

you should see the pile of applications in their office. I do not envy them

Ti Malice
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Re: Delusional? NYU?

Postby Ti Malice » Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:29 pm

h_jane_w wrote:
deputydog wrote:
h_jane_w wrote:
CR2012 wrote:Working for in Europe for a drug company right now.
Public UG
No URM


Omygod you are still no help.

How many years have you worked? Is this all your work experience? Public UG ranked 200 or 50? Do you have any previous internship? leadership?
So you're working in Europe but you're an American citizen right? That might help slightly with diversity. How many years have you lived in europe? do you speak any other languages?


Why are you asking for this info? It won't change anything. There are three pieces of info we need, LSAT, GPA, and URM status. Your UG ranking means jack shit, so does fluency in another language. Softs short of Rhodes scholar/Olympian/cancer cure/world famous porn star have no effect on your admission.


This is a lie because I'm pretty sure I got into NYU due to my softs (which were awesome). 3.45, 164, URM.


Extremely doubtful: http://myLSN.info/w4ez39.

Awesome softs are things like this: Rhodes, Marshall, Olympic medal, PhD with influential publications, renowned author, military service. Any of that other stuff you mentioned is largely inconsequential.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: Delusional? NYU?

Postby JamMasterJ » Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:32 pm

h_jane_w wrote:
deputydog wrote:
h_jane_w wrote:
CR2012 wrote:Working for in Europe for a drug company right now.
Public UG
No URM


Omygod you are still no help.

How many years have you worked? Is this all your work experience? Public UG ranked 200 or 50? Do you have any previous internship? leadership?
So you're working in Europe but you're an American citizen right? That might help slightly with diversity. How many years have you lived in europe? do you speak any other languages?


Why are you asking for this info? It won't change anything. There are three pieces of info we need, LSAT, GPA, and URM status. Your UG ranking means jack shit, so does fluency in another language. Softs short of Rhodes scholar/Olympian/cancer cure/world famous porn star have no effect on your admission.


This is a lie because I'm pretty sure I got into NYU due to my softs (which were awesome). 3.45, 164, URM.

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francesfarmer
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Re: Delusional? NYU?

Postby francesfarmer » Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:36 pm

JamMasterJ wrote:
francesfarmer wrote:
JamMasterJ wrote:see if you can get a fee waiver and only pay the 20 bucks or whatever. otherwise, it's probably not worth it

NYU is a dick about fee waivers but maybe they're desperate at this point. Probably not though.

you should see the pile of applications in their office. I do not envy them

They were dicks about fee waivers back in September when I asked for one and I'm pretty sure they didn't have many applications sitting around then

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052220151
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Re: Delusional? NYU?

Postby 052220151 » Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:38 pm

h_jane_w wrote:This is a lie because I'm pretty sure I got into NYU due to my softs (which were awesome). 3.45, 164, URM.


If you are an URM with a 164 and amazing softs, why did you settle for NYU? What are you super special snowflake softs by the way?

ETA - h_jane_w, I'm bilingual and have many years (5+) of relevant WE. Will STTTanford give me a pass with my mid 160s LSAT?

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JamMasterJ
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Re: Delusional? NYU?

Postby JamMasterJ » Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:45 pm

francesfarmer wrote:
JamMasterJ wrote:
francesfarmer wrote:
JamMasterJ wrote:see if you can get a fee waiver and only pay the 20 bucks or whatever. otherwise, it's probably not worth it

NYU is a dick about fee waivers but maybe they're desperate at this point. Probably not though.

you should see the pile of applications in their office. I do not envy them

They were dicks about fee waivers back in September when I asked for one and I'm pretty sure they didn't have many applications sitting around then

eh, probably a case of someone without the authority telling you what whoever has authority told them to say. Then again, I don't know what your interaction was

CR2012
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Re: Delusional? NYU?

Postby CR2012 » Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:10 pm

.
Last edited by CR2012 on Tue Jul 30, 2013 3:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Shmoopy
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Re: Delusional? NYU?

Postby Shmoopy » Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:44 pm

domino wrote:
I have only anecdotal evidence for this, so take it as you will. However, there was a big state campus near my UG where we could also take classes, and people would often say that it was way easier to get good grades there. The few people I've kept in touch with from my hometown who went to our state school also claim not to have been challenged at all, and they did very well in school. Fewer people as a proportion of the student body get an A- at most state schools, I'd bet--but that doesn't mean it's harder to get an A-. I would attribute the difference more to culture (people tend to care less about school and might have other responsibilities, more need for real jobs to pay off loans/support family etc.) and strong selection for academic performance into top schools.

It probably depends a lot on people's choices and goals--a state student at a school with a strong philosophy grad program who ends up working closely with the professors there is probably going to have a more rigorous experience than someone at Swarthmore who takes all gut courses.

I would guess that there is less coddling at state schools, though. So if you are really messed up one semester and screw up your coursework, you will get a D instead of a B-. Or if you turn in a paper a day late, you will fail as opposed to getting a slap on the wrist and an A-. That could be a difference.


+100 to this, based on my experience at an Ivy UG and now as a adjunct prof at a very, very prole school. In UG, turning something in late ranged from a letter grade penalty at worst to no penalty at best. Now, I give 0's to all my students who turn in anything late, unless they can tell me a story involving the hospital or the police.

There is a whole debate about whether B+ or A- students at a top UG would be A students at a lesser UG. Outside of the people in tough majors where you can do everything right and still not get an A (engineering, CS, math, physics, etc.), I think a good deal of the mediocre students at top schools are that way because they don't care enough, don't start papers early, cram for everything, etc. With these same habits, IDK if they would get better grades at a different school.

As far as grade inflation goes, I think it's most prominent in the B range at top schools. Meaning that you really have to fuck things up to get a C or below. I don't think A's were given out like candy at my school, though A-'s were in a lot of classes.




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