3.76 GPA / 154 LSAT

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babyxballerina
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3.76 GPA / 154 LSAT

Postby babyxballerina » Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:14 am

What are my chances for St. John's, Hofstra, Syracuse, Villanova, DePaul, Chicago Kent, and Loyola Chicago?
3.76 GPA / 154 LSAT

I'm retaking in February, but I'm assuming the worst. I've only taken the LSAT once. What are my chances with my current scores?

I know Cardozo and Brooklyn are out unless I increase my LSAT.

babyxballerina
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Re: 3.76 GPA / 154 LSAT

Postby babyxballerina » Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:32 am

I tried TLS Stats but there wasn't too much information with my LSAT/GPA range. And I've been through a bunch of the Acceptance/Waitlist/Denied pages to see whether or not people with similar stats were accepted/waitlisted/denied but that didn't help much.

Oh, by the way, I'm not URM, but I'm Asian female. I don't know if that will make too much of a difference. And I have an upward grade trend.

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justonemoregame
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Re: 3.76 GPA / 154 LSAT

Postby justonemoregame » Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:50 am

lawschoolnumbers.com

don't go to any of those schools

babyxballerina
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Re: 3.76 GPA / 154 LSAT

Postby babyxballerina » Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:51 am

justonemoregame wrote:lawschoolnumbers.com

don't go to any of those schools


Why not go to those schools? They're in Tier 2.

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dingbat
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Re: 3.76 GPA / 154 LSAT

Postby dingbat » Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:31 am

babyxballerina wrote:
justonemoregame wrote:lawschoolnumbers.com

don't go to any of those schools


Why not go to those schools? They're in Tier 2.

I can't speak for the rest, but your chance at finding a job coming NY coming out of Hofstra or St. johns is pretty small and the odds of getting a job that can justify paying full price is minuscule.
In NY there's a clear pecking order:
Columbia/NYU>Fordham>Brooklyn/Cardozo>Hofstra/St. John>NYLS/Touro
At Brooklyn & Cardozo barely half the class get jobs as lawyers and only 1 in 10 get good jobs (biglaw, clerk; District attorney or attorney general at next to impossible).
I tell people not to attend NYLS or Touro even if they get a full scholarship plus living expenses. St. John and Hofstra might be considered with a full scholarship, but aren't worth paying tuition. Brooklyn and Cardozo aren't worth full price, but can be considered with a substantial scholarship. Fordham is questionable at sticker, though not necessarily a bad idea.

babyxballerina
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Re: 3.76 GPA / 154 LSAT

Postby babyxballerina » Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:45 pm

Best case scenario I can get my score into Cardozo's range. Cardozo is actually my top choice. No way I'll be able to get my score into Fordham's range or above. :( if I had to pick between St. John's vs. Hofstra, how do those compare? I'm hoping I can get into Cardozo because I'm interested in intellectual property law.

By the way, thanks for the site.

RodneyBoonfield
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Re: 3.76 GPA / 154 LSAT

Postby RodneyBoonfield » Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:50 pm

You're cray to do anything but retake

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Rahviveh
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Re: 3.76 GPA / 154 LSAT

Postby Rahviveh » Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:55 pm

babyxballerina wrote:Best case scenario I can get my score into Cardozo's range. Cardozo is actually my top choice. No way I'll be able to get my score into Fordham's range or above. :( if I had to pick between St. John's vs. Hofstra, how do those compare? I'm hoping I can get into Cardozo because I'm interested in intellectual property law.

By the way, thanks for the site.


Cardozo's median is 162 compared to Fordham's 164. What makes you think there is "no way" you can do 2 points better and make yourself competitive for Fordham? How long have you been studying for the LSAT? 2 points is within the margin of error on the test. And people with your GPA got into Fordham with lower LSAT's - though 164 seems like the magic number on LSN. Do not set the bar so low for yourself. The difference in outcomes between the two schools is well worth the extra time and effort.

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Re: 3.76 GPA / 154 LSAT

Postby babyxballerina » Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:58 pm

ChampagnePapi wrote:
babyxballerina wrote:Best case scenario I can get my score into Cardozo's range. Cardozo is actually my top choice. No way I'll be able to get my score into Fordham's range or above. :( if I had to pick between St. John's vs. Hofstra, how do those compare? I'm hoping I can get into Cardozo because I'm interested in intellectual property law.

By the way, thanks for the site.


Cardozo's median is 162 compared to Fordham's 164. What makes you think there is "no way" you can do 2 points better and make yourself competitive for Fordham? How long have you been studying for the LSAT? 2 points is within the margin of error on the test. And people with your GPA got into Fordham with lower LSAT's - though 164 seems like the magic number on LSN. Do not set the bar so low for yourself. The difference in outcomes between the two schools is well worth the extra time and effort.


I've been prepping since last January but its been on and off because of school and I do a bunch of extra curriculars as well. Like I took a month off in may to study abroad... And here and there. This month I actually have time to settle and spend the time I need to prep since I just graduated. Hoping I can get into high 150s or low 160s.
Last edited by babyxballerina on Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Rahviveh
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Re: 3.76 GPA / 154 LSAT

Postby Rahviveh » Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:04 pm

babyxballerina wrote:
ChampagnePapi wrote:
babyxballerina wrote:Best case scenario I can get my score into Cardozo's range. Cardozo is actually my top choice. No way I'll be able to get my score into Fordham's range or above. :( if I had to pick between St. John's vs. Hofstra, how do those compare? I'm hoping I can get into Cardozo because I'm interested in intellectual property law.

By the way, thanks for the site.


Cardozo's median is 162 compared to Fordham's 164. What makes you think there is "no way" you can do 2 points better and make yourself competitive for Fordham? How long have you been studying for the LSAT? 2 points is within the margin of error on the test. And people with your GPA got into Fordham with lower LSAT's - though 164 seems like the magic number on LSN. Do not set the bar so low for yourself. The difference in outcomes between the two schools is well worth the extra time and effort.


I've been prepping since last January but its been on and off because of school and I do a bunch of extra curriculars as well. Like I took a month off in may to study abroad... And here and there. This month I actually have time to settle and spend the time I need to prep since I just graduated. Hoping I can get into high 150s or low 160s.


Honestly, it doesn't sound you've put that much into studying for this test. Studying for a year doesn't do much if its on/off. You really need a 3-4 month stretch where you're putting in max effort, drilling questions and games, and taking practice tests. If you follow the study guides in the LSAT prep forums then I think you can see a big improvement, putting Fordham and possibly some T20's into play. Your GPA is very solid, do not waste it on these terrible schools you listed in the OP. You may also want to rethink your career goals, I believe you need a hard science background to do IP law. And it sounds like you want biglaw in general which is going to be hard to get outside of the T14. Good luck!

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Re: 3.76 GPA / 154 LSAT

Postby babyxballerina » Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:10 pm

ChampagnePapi wrote:
babyxballerina wrote:
ChampagnePapi wrote:
babyxballerina wrote:Best case scenario I can get my score into Cardozo's range. Cardozo is actually my top choice. No way I'll be able to get my score into Fordham's range or above. :( if I had to pick between St. John's vs. Hofstra, how do those compare? I'm hoping I can get into Cardozo because I'm interested in intellectual property law.

By the way, thanks for the site.


Cardozo's median is 162 compared to Fordham's 164. What makes you think there is "no way" you can do 2 points better and make yourself competitive for Fordham? How long have you been studying for the LSAT? 2 points is within the margin of error on the test. And people with your GPA got into Fordham with lower LSAT's - though 164 seems like the magic number on LSN. Do not set the bar so low for yourself. The difference in outcomes between the two schools is well worth the extra time and effort.


I've been prepping since last January but its been on and off because of school and I do a bunch of extra curriculars as well. Like I took a month off in may to study abroad... And here and there. This month I actually have time to settle and spend the time I need to prep since I just graduated. Hoping I can get into high 150s or low 160s.


Honestly, it doesn't sound you've put that much into studying for this test. Studying for a year doesn't do much if its on/off. You really need a 3-4 month stretch where you're putting in max effort, drilling questions and games, and taking practice tests. If you follow the study guides in the LSAT prep forums then I think you can see a big improvement, putting Fordham and possibly some T20's into play. Your GPA is very solid, do not waste it on these terrible schools you listed in the OP. You may also want to rethink your career goals, I believe you need a hard science background to do IP law. And it sounds like you want biglaw in general which is going to be hard to get outside of the T14. Good luck!


Thanks! I've been trying to prep hardcore now, but not expecting too much. I have a history of poor standardize test scores (I have a hard time with them... I think it's partially test anxiety), but always have done well in school. I have an addendum for my score for now. I have a letter of rec from one of my law prof from undergrad and one from my prelaw/academic advisor/prof who's an entertainment lawyer. I'm hoping they can speak to my ability instead of my score. They think i should be scoring in the 160s - which I'm obviously having a hard time doing. :(

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Re: 3.76 GPA / 154 LSAT

Postby Rahviveh » Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:17 pm

babyxballerina wrote:
Thanks! I've been trying to prep hardcore now, but not expecting too much. I have a history of poor standardize test scores (I have a hard time with them... I think it's partially test anxiety), but always have done well in school. I have an addendum for my score for now. I have a letter of rec from one of my law prof from undergrad and one from my prelaw/academic advisor/prof who's an entertainment lawyer. I'm hoping they can speak to my ability instead of my score. They think i should be scoring in the 160s - which I'm obviously having a hard time doing. :(


There aren't many people out there who can do really well on this test without hard studying and prep - which I would argue you have not done yet. Try not to consider yourself disadvantaged or "bad at prep tests", you are bad now because you haven't studied enough. This often becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy if you have that mentality.

If you don't get your PT scores up by the time the test rolls around in Feb, consider postponing till June and using those extra five months for hardcore prepwork. You can still apply with your current app, and if you're not happy with your cycle's results by that time (I'm betting you won't be) then you can reapply next year with what I'm sure will be your 160's June score.

PS - Addenda and rec letters won't help, schools will NOT look past a bad LSAT score. There is no way to get around the fact that you need to do better on the test.
Last edited by Rahviveh on Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

rad lulz
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Re: 3.76 GPA / 154 LSAT

Postby rad lulz » Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:18 pm

babyxballerina wrote:Why not go to those schools? They're in Tier 2.

T2 doesn't mean shit. See lawschooltransparency.coms

No one cares about your score addendums.

No one cares about your recommendations.

Don't go to any of those schools unless they're free.

Retake or don't go.

babyxballerina
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Re: 3.76 GPA / 154 LSAT

Postby babyxballerina » Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:20 pm

rad lulz wrote:
babyxballerina wrote:Why not go to those schools? They're in Tier 2.

T2 doesn't mean shit. See lawschooltransparency.coms

No one cares about your score addendums.

No one cares about your recommendations.

Don't go to any of those schools unless they're free.

Retake or don't go.


I don't need it to be free. My parents are paying.

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Re: 3.76 GPA / 154 LSAT

Postby babyxballerina » Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:22 pm

ChampagnePapi wrote:
babyxballerina wrote:
Thanks! I've been trying to prep hardcore now, but not expecting too much. I have a history of poor standardize test scores (I have a hard time with them... I think it's partially test anxiety), but always have done well in school. I have an addendum for my score for now. I have a letter of rec from one of my law prof from undergrad and one from my prelaw/academic advisor/prof who's an entertainment lawyer. I'm hoping they can speak to my ability instead of my score. They think i should be scoring in the 160s - which I'm obviously having a hard time doing. :(


There aren't many people out there who can do really well on this test without hard studying and prep - which I would argue you have not done yet. Try not to consider yourself disadvantaged or "bad at prep tests", you are bad now because you haven't studied enough. This often becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy if you have that mentality.

If you don't get your PT scores up by the time the test rolls around in Feb, consider postponing till June and using those extra five months for hardcore prepwork. You can still apply with your current app, and if you're not happy with your cycle's results by that time (I'm betting you won't be) then you can reapply next year with what I'm sure will be your 160's June score.

PS - Addenda and rec letters won't help, schools will NOT look past a bad LSAT score. There is no way to get around the fact that you need to do better on the test.


:( I don't even know what to do with a year off. Hmm.. June is definitely postponing a year? Or are there good schools that take late apps?

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Rahviveh
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Re: 3.76 GPA / 154 LSAT

Postby Rahviveh » Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:24 pm

babyxballerina wrote:
rad lulz wrote:
babyxballerina wrote:Why not go to those schools? They're in Tier 2.

T2 doesn't mean shit. See lawschooltransparency.coms

No one cares about your score addendums.

No one cares about your recommendations.

Don't go to any of those schools unless they're free.

Retake or don't go.


I don't need it to be free. My parents are paying.


That's even more of a reason to get the highest score possible. You have the luxury that most people don't have - you don't need to worry about scholarship money, which often forces other applicants to pick lower ranked schools. Don't settle for anything less than Fordham

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Rahviveh
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Re: 3.76 GPA / 154 LSAT

Postby Rahviveh » Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:27 pm

babyxballerina wrote:
ChampagnePapi wrote:
babyxballerina wrote:
Thanks! I've been trying to prep hardcore now, but not expecting too much. I have a history of poor standardize test scores (I have a hard time with them... I think it's partially test anxiety), but always have done well in school. I have an addendum for my score for now. I have a letter of rec from one of my law prof from undergrad and one from my prelaw/academic advisor/prof who's an entertainment lawyer. I'm hoping they can speak to my ability instead of my score. They think i should be scoring in the 160s - which I'm obviously having a hard time doing. :(


There aren't many people out there who can do really well on this test without hard studying and prep - which I would argue you have not done yet. Try not to consider yourself disadvantaged or "bad at prep tests", you are bad now because you haven't studied enough. This often becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy if you have that mentality.

If you don't get your PT scores up by the time the test rolls around in Feb, consider postponing till June and using those extra five months for hardcore prepwork. You can still apply with your current app, and if you're not happy with your cycle's results by that time (I'm betting you won't be) then you can reapply next year with what I'm sure will be your 160's June score.

PS - Addenda and rec letters won't help, schools will NOT look past a bad LSAT score. There is no way to get around the fact that you need to do better on the test.


:( I don't even know what to do with a year off. Hmm.. June is definitely postponing a year? Or are there good schools that take late apps?


What I'm saying is that you can apply now with your score and see how your cycle plays out. Just look at LST, even for free these schools you listed are terrible options. Now when you get your June score back you can decide at that point if you can wait a year and reapply. It doesn't commit you to anything, but it sounds like you have an open schedule post-grad and plenty of time to study for the June test. Also, a higher score may get you off waitlists in the summer to places like Fordham. I am fairly confident that if you're put in that situation - re-applying with a much higher score vs attending a shit school with your lower score - you will make the right decision.

alex.feuerman
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Re: 3.76 GPA / 154 LSAT

Postby alex.feuerman » Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:29 pm

Don't be ridiculous I got a 154 the first time I took it as a junior in college and then a 164 two years later. Going to NYU (ranked #6) in the fall. But I'm URM. DREAM BIG!

babyxballerina
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Re: 3.76 GPA / 154 LSAT

Postby babyxballerina » Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:30 pm

ChampagnePapi wrote:
babyxballerina wrote:
ChampagnePapi wrote:
babyxballerina wrote:
Thanks! I've been trying to prep hardcore now, but not expecting too much. I have a history of poor standardize test scores (I have a hard time with them... I think it's partially test anxiety), but always have done well in school. I have an addendum for my score for now. I have a letter of rec from one of my law prof from undergrad and one from my prelaw/academic advisor/prof who's an entertainment lawyer. I'm hoping they can speak to my ability instead of my score. They think i should be scoring in the 160s - which I'm obviously having a hard time doing. :(


There aren't many people out there who can do really well on this test without hard studying and prep - which I would argue you have not done yet. Try not to consider yourself disadvantaged or "bad at prep tests", you are bad now because you haven't studied enough. This often becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy if you have that mentality.

If you don't get your PT scores up by the time the test rolls around in Feb, consider postponing till June and using those extra five months for hardcore prepwork. You can still apply with your current app, and if you're not happy with your cycle's results by that time (I'm betting you won't be) then you can reapply next year with what I'm sure will be your 160's June score.

PS - Addenda and rec letters won't help, schools will NOT look past a bad LSAT score. There is no way to get around the fact that you need to do better on the test.


:( I don't even know what to do with a year off. Hmm.. June is definitely postponing a year? Or are there good schools that take late apps?


What I'm saying is that you can apply now with your score and see how your cycle plays out. Just look at LST, even for free these schools you listed are terrible options. Now when you get your June score back you can decide at that point if you can wait a year and reapply. It doesn't commit you to anything, but it sounds like you have an open schedule post-grad and plenty of time to study for the June test. Also, a higher score may get you off waitlists in the summer to places like Fordham. I am fairly confident that if you're put in that situation - re-applying with a much higher score vs attending a shit school with your lower score - you will make the right decision.


:) I know I'm lucky. Hopefully I can get money but if I don't its not the end of the world. Just trying to get into the best school as possible.

Hmmm... Wouldn't my score be an auto reject for Fordham? Because I thought they were. Or would I have a chance of waitlist and sending new score?

babyxballerina
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Re: 3.76 GPA / 154 LSAT

Postby babyxballerina » Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:31 pm

alex.feuerman wrote:Don't be ridiculous I got a 154 the first time I took it as a junior in college and then a 164 two years later. Going to NYU (ranked #6) in the fall. But I'm URM. DREAM BIG!


Wow! Congrats!!!! That's awesome!

Did you prep hardcore for 2 years? How did you prep?

PRgradBYU
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Re: 3.76 GPA / 154 LSAT

Postby PRgradBYU » Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:42 pm

dingbat wrote:In NY there's a clear pecking order:
Columbia/NYU>Fordham>Brooklyn/Cardozo>Hofstra/St. John>NYLS/Touro


What about Cornell? :o

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dingbat
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Re: 3.76 GPA / 154 LSAT

Postby dingbat » Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:42 pm

PRgradBYU wrote:
dingbat wrote:In NY there's a clear pecking order:
Columbia/NYU>Fordham>Brooklyn/Cardozo>Hofstra/St. John>NYLS/Touro


What about Cornell? :o

What about em? Note that I also didn't mention Buffalo, Albany or Syracuse (if NYS) nor UConn, Rutgers or St. Johns (if greater NYC)

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Re: 3.76 GPA / 154 LSAT

Postby B90 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:26 pm

By definition, more than half of the people who take the LSAT score worse than you. Scoring a 154 does not mean you are stupid, nor does it mean you are a failure. However, there is no excuse for not doing your best. You have a high GPA, which adcoms will see as proof that you can be successful. If you genuinely devote yourself to "mastering" the LSAT, you likely can. It is learnable for the vast majority of people. Therefore, if you don't score well, adcoms will likely think you are just lazy. You owe it not only to your future self but to your parents to do your very best.
Once you finish 1L, you cannot retake it. Ever. You are stuck with not only the grades you receive but the law school you attend. Come interview time, you will be forced to explain your choices and your performance. Remember, your JD means nothing if you can't get a job.
It is foolish to not set yourself up for success.

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Re: 3.76 GPA / 154 LSAT

Postby romothesavior » Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:59 pm

Going to any of these schools would be a terrible decision. If you actually want to be a lawyer when you graduate, avoid all of them. Take a look for yourself:

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=hofstra
http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=brooklyn
http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=stjohns
http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=chicago-kent
http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=villanova

This is just a sampling. None of these schools has good employment outcomes. In all likelihood, you would be wasting your parents' money, and wasting your own time and energy. Either retake the LSAT and get a much higher score (Fordham is the lowest you should go to in NYC), or don't go to law school. Good luck.

babyxballerina
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Re: 3.76 GPA / 154 LSAT

Postby babyxballerina » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:20 am

romothesavior wrote:Going to any of these schools would be a terrible decision. If you actually want to be a lawyer when you graduate, avoid all of them. Take a look for yourself:

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=hofstra
http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=brooklyn
http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=stjohns
http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=chicago-kent
http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=villanova

This is just a sampling. None of these schools has good employment outcomes. In all likelihood, you would be wasting your parents' money, and wasting your own time and energy. Either retake the LSAT and get a much higher score (Fordham is the lowest you should go to in NYC), or don't go to law school. Good luck.


Either way, I'm going to law school. I just don't know which law school until I take Feb test and get results.




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