3.3 GPA + F + Withdraw + 177 LSAT...What are my chances?

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RealMenGoProSe
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3.3 GPA + F + Withdraw + 177 LSAT...What are my chances?

Postby RealMenGoProSe » Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:10 pm

Hi everyone, i'm in a little bit of a predicament...

I am a graduating senior and, after a 4.0 last semester, I have a 3.3 cumulative for a B.S. in Applied Physics at Columbia Univ.
I took the LSAT twice last year and got a 175 & 177.

Problem is, I received an "F" sophomore year, and another "withdraw" mark (where if I hadn't withdrawn, it would've been another F). I ended up with a 1.8 GPA sophomore year before raising it to a 3.3.

I am preparing a long essay to explain it BUT, for the purpose of keeping this question short to save your time, could you guys just enlighten me on which law schools I have a chance of getting into, without me telling you what my explanation for an "F" is? Let's just ASSUME I sat in my dorm all day and never went to class (for the purpose of this).

I had initially planned to work a few years and go to grad school and get a better GPA before applying but now I want to go straight to law school, specializing in patent litigation. I have a little bit of tech experience as I was part of a start up of 3 classmates which was acquired in 8 months for $150k for a piece of software we built and we quickly returned to college afterwards (would this help me at all for the law schools with good IP departments like Berkeley?).

I am not a URM nor have any alum connections.

What are my chances (if any at all) at the following law schools?

Columbia
Harvard
Stanford
NYU
Chicago
UVA
UPenn
Berkeley
NW
Duke
UMich
Cornell
Georgetown
UCLA
--------------
GWU
William & Mary
George Mason
American U


thank you so much in advance guys!!

Ti Malice
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Re: 3.3 GPA + F + Withdraw + 177 LSAT...What are my chances?

Postby Ti Malice » Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:25 pm

Law schools will just care about your cumulative GPA. You definitely don't need to write any long essay about your grades.

You're out at Stanford, Harvard, Chicago, and Berkeley. You have a fair shot at Columbia and a very good shot at NYU. You're likely in everywhere else, except for possible yield protection.

eric922
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Re: 3.3 GPA + F + Withdraw + 177 LSAT...What are my chances?

Postby eric922 » Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:25 pm

If your GPA is at a 3.3 with that F factored in then you should be in at least some of the schools on your list with money. I'm pretty sure HYS are out with a 3.3 even if you managed a 180 on the LSAT. The W shouldn't hurt you unless your school counts it as punitive. If they do then it is another F according to LSAC.

eric922
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Re: 3.3 GPA + F + Withdraw + 177 LSAT...What are my chances?

Postby eric922 » Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:26 pm

Ti Malice wrote:Law schools will just care about your cumulative GPA. You definitely don't need to write any long essay about your grades.

You're out at Stanford, Harvard, Chicago, and Berkeley. You have a fair shot at Columbia and a very good shot at NYU. You're likely in everywhere else, except for possible yield protection.

Though a strong "Why X school" essay could probably take care of that.

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dingbat
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Re: 3.3 GPA + F + Withdraw + 177 LSAT...What are my chances?

Postby dingbat » Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:31 pm

RealMenGoProSe wrote:What are my chances (if any at all) at the following law schools?

Columbia
Harvard
Stanford
NYU
Chicago
UVA
UPenn
Berkeley
NW
Duke
UMich
Cornell
Georgetown
UCLA
--------------
GWU
William & Mary
George Mason
American U


thank you so much in advance guys!!

Don't bother with George Mason and don't even consider American. (I'd skip GW and W&M as well, but they're not bad safeties)
Other than that, apply to the whole list. You'll probably get into several and some will offer you scholarships. Then come back here for advice on which one to pick

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wert3813
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Re: 3.3 GPA + F + Withdraw + 177 LSAT...What are my chances?

Postby wert3813 » Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:59 pm

Ti Malice wrote:You definitely don't need to write any long essay about your grades.


Don't do that.

Your next question is going to be "should I write an addendum at all?" The answer is maybe. Is there a reason for you poor GPA. If the reason is immature, hard major, hard school, or anything else that isn't legit the answer is no. The idea that addendums can only help is wrong.

If you have questions about whether you should write an addendum post the circumstances and we will let you know.

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Cobretti
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Re: 3.3 GPA + F + Withdraw + 177 LSAT...What are my chances?

Postby Cobretti » Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:14 pm

Personally I don't understand why people are against addendum for frivolous reasons. I think if you write a very concise addendum explaining you had some problems and realized the error of your ways its fine. Just don't make excuses, and take responsibility for your actions. If you get that down to a quarter of a page no adcomm will be upset that they wasted their time reading it. Despite TLS conventional wisdom, upward grade trends are a positive, so I think you should address it briefly.

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dingbat
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Re: 3.3 GPA + F + Withdraw + 177 LSAT...What are my chances?

Postby dingbat » Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:40 pm

mrizza wrote:Personally I don't understand why people are against addendum for frivolous reasons. I think if you write a very concise addendum explaining you had some problems and realized the error of your ways its fine. Just don't make excuses, and take responsibility for your actions. If you get that down to a quarter of a page no adcomm will be upset that they wasted their time reading it. Despite TLS conventional wisdom, upward grade trends are a positive, so I think you should address it briefly.

+1

Going from a 1.8 to a 4.0 is not the same as moving from a 3.0 to a 3.5 (which would be a stupid addendum)

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wert3813
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Re: 3.3 GPA + F + Withdraw + 177 LSAT...What are my chances?

Postby wert3813 » Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:26 am

mrizza wrote:Personally I don't understand why people are against addendum for frivolous reasons. I think if you write a very concise addendum explaining you had some problems and realized the error of your ways its fine. Just don't make excuses, and take responsibility for your actions. If you get that down to a quarter of a page no adcomm will be upset that they wasted their time reading it. Despite TLS conventional wisdom, upward grade trends are a positive, so I think you should address it briefly.


Because most people don't do that. Very few people say, "I fucked around my freshman year and I learned from it." They give reasons why their fucking around was justified or why they didn't actually fuck around.

Furthermore, the conventional wisdom is, "well it can't hurt." That's just not true. It can hurt. Spivey and Perez have both said so as well.

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Cobretti
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Re: 3.3 GPA + F + Withdraw + 177 LSAT...What are my chances?

Postby Cobretti » Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:08 am

wert3813 wrote:
mrizza wrote:Personally I don't understand why people are against addendum for frivolous reasons. I think if you write a very concise addendum explaining you had some problems and realized the error of your ways its fine. Just don't make excuses, and take responsibility for your actions. If you get that down to a quarter of a page no adcomm will be upset that they wasted their time reading it. Despite TLS conventional wisdom, upward grade trends are a positive, so I think you should address it briefly.


Because most people don't do that. Very few people say, "I fucked around my freshman year and I learned from it." They give reasons why their fucking around was justified or why they didn't actually fuck around.

Furthermore, the conventional wisdom is, "well it can't hurt." That's just not true. It can hurt. Spivey and Perez have both said so as well.


I think the important takeaway here is that wert is in agreement that if you make it succinct and take responsibility it will help you. Good luck.

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wert3813
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Re: 3.3 GPA + F + Withdraw + 177 LSAT...What are my chances?

Postby wert3813 » Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:27 am

mrizza wrote:
wert3813 wrote:
mrizza wrote:Personally I don't understand why people are against addendum for frivolous reasons. I think if you write a very concise addendum explaining you had some problems and realized the error of your ways its fine. Just don't make excuses, and take responsibility for your actions. If you get that down to a quarter of a page no adcomm will be upset that they wasted their time reading it. Despite TLS conventional wisdom, upward grade trends are a positive, so I think you should address it briefly.


Because most people don't do that. Very few people say, "I fucked around my freshman year and I learned from it." They give reasons why their fucking around was justified or why they didn't actually fuck around.

Furthermore, the conventional wisdom is, "well it can't hurt." That's just not true. It can hurt. Spivey and Perez have both said so as well.


I think the important takeaway here is that wert is in agreement that if you make it succinct and take responsibility it will help not hurt you. Good luck.


Now I agree.

nebula666
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Re: 3.3 GPA + F + Withdraw + 177 LSAT...What are my chances?

Postby nebula666 » Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:46 am

You have a 3.3....that is all they will look at.

You are almost a lock for NYU. You also have a chance at Columbia but could be waitlisted. You have a shot at everywhere else besides HYS and Berkeley. Should get a significant amount of money from one of MVP + Duke and GULC.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: 3.3 GPA + F + Withdraw + 177 LSAT...What are my chances?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:01 pm

eric922 wrote:
Ti Malice wrote:Law schools will just care about your cumulative GPA. You definitely don't need to write any long essay about your grades.

You're out at Stanford, Harvard, Chicago, and Berkeley. You have a fair shot at Columbia and a very good shot at NYU. You're likely in everywhere else, except for possible yield protection.

Though a strong "Why X school" essay could probably take care of that.

I wouldn't be so sure.

OP, you'll probably be in decent shape this year but if you are still in school finishing up strong and getting that GPA a little higher could lead to more success next year. Keep an open mind if things don't go as well as hoped.

eric922
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Re: 3.3 GPA + F + Withdraw + 177 LSAT...What are my chances?

Postby eric922 » Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:29 pm

nebula666 wrote:You have a 3.3....that is all they will look at.

You are almost a lock for NYU. You also have a chance at Columbia but could be waitlisted. You have a shot at everywhere else besides HYS and Berkeley. Should get a significant amount of money from one of MVP + Duke and GULC.

Wouldn't Cornell probably give him some money as well? He's above their GPA floor and 8 points above their LSAT median.

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manofjustice
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Re: 3.3 GPA + F + Withdraw + 177 LSAT...What are my chances?

Postby manofjustice » Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:36 pm

It's a great list--except, apply to all the T14. Splitter cycles are unpredictable.

Please be careful about cost, and consider the schools to which you could win large scholarships. You'll get into some schools that will insist you pay sticker, and usually, that's a bad deal, considering today's market...or even aside from today's market. Debt is just bad if you want freedom.

PM me if you want more info. I was in a similar situation.

eric922
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Re: 3.3 GPA + F + Withdraw + 177 LSAT...What are my chances?

Postby eric922 » Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:39 pm

You know, OP, you might want to consider applying to some top 20s simply for negotiating power. I know Vanderbilt will probably give you a very nice scholarship and you could use that to negotiate with the T14-10 probably.

ercmilla
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Re: 3.3 GPA + F + Withdraw + 177 LSAT...What are my chances?

Postby ercmilla » Sun Jan 20, 2013 2:36 pm

This guy might have a good shot of EDing Chicago. (I think it's too late at this point)

delusional
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Re: 3.3 GPA + F + Withdraw + 177 LSAT...What are my chances?

Postby delusional » Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:36 pm

Crazy idea:
1. Don't graduate.
2. Go take a bunch of courses at a community college that gives A+.
3. Get enough A+ to bring your GPA above 3.7.
4. Graduate (from Columbia, if that's possible.)
5. Enjoy Harvard

eric922
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Re: 3.3 GPA + F + Withdraw + 177 LSAT...What are my chances?

Postby eric922 » Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:43 pm

delusional wrote:Crazy idea:
1. Don't graduate.
2. Go take a bunch of courses at a community college that gives A+.
3. Get enough A+ to bring your GPA above 3.7.
4. Graduate (from Columbia, if that's possible.)
5. Enjoy Harvard

I actually considered doing that since my GPA will probably be the same as his or a 3.4 when I graduate, but wouldn't that take like three more years?

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suralin
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Re: 3.3 GPA + F + Withdraw + 177 LSAT...What are my chances?

Postby suralin » Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:49 pm

delusional wrote:Crazy idea:
1. Don't graduate.
2. Go take a bunch of courses at a community college that gives A+.
3. Get enough A+ to bring your GPA above 3.7.
4. Graduate (from Columbia, if that's possible.)
5. Enjoy Harvard


Decent idea :lol:

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Power Clean
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Re: 3.3 GPA + F + Withdraw + 177 LSAT...What are my chances?

Postby Power Clean » Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:48 pm

delusional wrote:Crazy idea:
1. Don't graduate.
2. Go take a bunch of courses at a community college that gives A+.
3. Get enough A+ to bring your GPA above 3.7.
4. Graduate (from Columbia, if that's possible.)
5. Enjoy Harvard


Not to derail OP's question, but is this feasible? Taking ~4 summer classes at a CC before graduating and applying this next cycle could mean semester units for someone coming from a school on the quarter system right? I know I could use the boost...

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: 3.3 GPA + F + Withdraw + 177 LSAT...What are my chances?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:53 pm

Power Clean wrote:
delusional wrote:Crazy idea:
1. Don't graduate.
2. Go take a bunch of courses at a community college that gives A+.
3. Get enough A+ to bring your GPA above 3.7.
4. Graduate (from Columbia, if that's possible.)
5. Enjoy Harvard


Not to derail OP's question, but is this feasible? Taking ~4 summer classes at a CC before graduating and applying this next cycle could mean semester units for someone coming from a school on the quarter system right? I know I could use the boost...

It'd be hard to go from a 3.3 to a 3.7 late in one's career without it looking strange, but taking 4 CC classes to get a slight boost wouldn't be an issue at all. Certainly wish I'd done it.

The semester vs. quarter thing makes no difference. Your primary university doesn't even need to know about the plan.

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suralin
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Re: 3.3 GPA + F + Withdraw + 177 LSAT...What are my chances?

Postby suralin » Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:57 pm

Power Clean wrote:
delusional wrote:Crazy idea:
1. Don't graduate.
2. Go take a bunch of courses at a community college that gives A+.
3. Get enough A+ to bring your GPA above 3.7.
4. Graduate (from Columbia, if that's possible.)
5. Enjoy Harvard


Not to derail OP's question, but is this feasible? Taking ~4 summer classes at a CC before graduating and applying this next cycle could mean semester units for someone coming from a school on the quarter system right? I know I could use the boost...


Pretty sure it's feasible. Most people don't do it because of cost or because of not wanting the "stigma" of taking longer than four years to complete undergrad; also, it's not that huge of a boost unless you have a pretty low GPA combined with a low number of course credits combined with your school not offering A+s, and then take a bunch of community college courses and get A+s.

LSAC accepts everything until your first bachelor's degree.

ETA: Full disclosure: I'm planning on taking as many easy summer community college classes as possible, and I recommend doing so as well as long as the cost isn't prohibitive.




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