Where should I apply?

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houseofny
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Where should I apply?

Postby houseofny » Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:12 pm

Didn't study for the LSAT...took it on a whim (and don't plan on retaking).

153 LSAT & 3.3 UGPA. Went to a fairly competitive undergraduate school, double-majored, and have extensive campus involvement experience and work experience. Also will be a NYS certified English teacher (grades 7-12), so my resume is decent.

Any idea on where I should apply? Any chance of getting into Cardozo?

Any law schools you can think of with nice law student/graduate student housing on-campus?

I have been accepted to Hofstra Law School, Syracuse University Law, and was wait-listed at the University at Buffalo. All of which are in the top 100.

Thanks in advance (and please don't bash my grades)!
Last edited by houseofny on Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

PRgradBYU
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Re: Where should I apply?

Postby PRgradBYU » Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:27 pm

I'd be willing to bet Cardozo would be tough because you're under both of their 25th percentile numbers. Whether or not you studied for the LSAT is irrelevant--law schools aren't going to care. If you want to attend a "well-known school," I'd strongly recommend retaking the LSAT. If you kick it into top gear and study your tail off from now until October (maybe even June), there's a chance you could raise your score pretty close to a 160. It's definitely possible.

Your GPA can't be changed at this point so I would focus on what you can change: your LSAT score.

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TripTrip
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Re: Where should I apply?

Postby TripTrip » Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:30 pm

houseofny wrote:Didn't study for the LSAT...took it on a whim (and don't plan on retaking).

153 LSAT & 3.3 UGPA.

Don't go to law school.

houseofny
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Re: Where should I apply?

Postby houseofny » Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:30 pm

Thanks! I was considering retaking the LSAT, but I want to start law school in the fall, so I'm afraid it may be too late...

eric922
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Re: Where should I apply?

Postby eric922 » Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:38 pm

If you can't be bothered to put the necessary effort into the LSAT then you probably shouldn't go. Our GPAs will be similar when I graduate, but that's why we both need LSAT scores in the 170's to get into good schools. I'm sorry, but retake or don't go. Going to any of the schools you mentioned at sticker price will be a horrible choice. You mentioned Hofstrfa, they are one of the worst schools in an extremely competitive market. NYC is where I want to work too, but to get a decent job there you need to shoot for Columbia, NYU, Cornell, or another T14.

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suralin
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Re: Where should I apply?

Postby suralin » Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:40 pm

houseofny wrote:Didn't study for the LSAT...took it on a whim (and don't plan on retaking).

153 LSAT & 3.3 UGPA. Went to a fairly competitive undergraduate school, double-majored, and have extensive campus involvement experience and work experience. Also will be a NYS certified English teacher (grades 7-12), so my resume is decent.

Any idea on where I should apply? Would prefer to attend a well-known school. Any chance of getting into Cardozo?

Any law schools you can think of with nice law student/graduate student housing on-campus?

I have been accepted to Hofstra Law School, Syracuse University Law, and was wait-listed at the University at Buffalo. All of which are in the top 100.

Thanks in advance (and please don't bash my grades)!


This has to be a flame. Jesus christ.

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UnamSanctam
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Re: Where should I apply?

Postby UnamSanctam » Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:42 pm

houseofny wrote:Didn't study for the LSAT...took it on a whim (and don't plan on retaking).


Look man, it's your life and all, but this is a really poor decision. You want to go to professional school so you can get a job in a career path that's increasingly difficult for all but the top school grads to get. You need to do your due diligence and retake. A year is not that much time to hold off on your plans. Please, for the sake of your own future, study and retake.

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suralin
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Re: Where should I apply?

Postby suralin » Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:43 pm

eric922 wrote:If you can't be bothered to put the necessary effort into the LSAT then you probably shouldn't go. Our GPAs will be similar when I graduate, but that's why we both need LSAT scores in the 170's to get into good schools. I'm sorry, but retake or don't go. Going to any of the schools you mentioned at sticker price will be a horrible choice. You mentioned Hofstrfa, they are one of the worst schools in an extremely competitive market. NYC is where I want to work too, but to get a decent job there you need to shoot for Columbia, NYU, Cornell, or another T14.


+1. Also, OP, get your priorities in order. You want a nice law school name on your resume? Nice housing? LOL

How the fuck does that matter when you're looking at schools where half the graduates don't even get jobs requiring a J.D.? And then you can't even be bothered to study for a test that literally counts for more than your entire undergraduate career--including your "extensive campus involvement."

houseofny
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Re: Where should I apply?

Postby houseofny » Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:45 pm

If you're not going to answer my questions, don't respond :) Thanks!

I was planning on going to graduate school in a different field originally, so I just took the LSAT on a whim to see how I would do (scored above 60% of other test takers... pretty unfortunate for the other test takers).

I am an English Teacher at the moment, so I don't have a lot of time to spend on preparing to retake the exam.

nebula666
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Re: Where should I apply?

Postby nebula666 » Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:49 pm

180

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TripTrip
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Re: Where should I apply?

Postby TripTrip » Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:17 pm

Suralin wrote:This has to be a flame. Jesus christ.

Maybe. But to be fair I think we're a little overzealous about labeling flames. OP might not be joking.

houseofny wrote:I was planning on going to graduate school in a different field originally, so I just took the LSAT on a whim to see how I would do (scored above 60% of other test takers... pretty unfortunate for the other test takers).

I am an English Teacher at the moment, so I don't have a lot of time to spend on preparing to retake the exam.

Go to your other graduate school or stick to teaching. A 153 LSAT is terrible, and a 3.3 GPA is not going to do you any favors.

You'd probably be paying sticker price at Whittier, ranked the worst law school in the country.

houseofny
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Re: Where should I apply?

Postby houseofny » Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:36 pm

I actually received substantial scholarships from several law schools. Not the highest rated, but a law school none the less.

I don't need to be reminded that the "big city" jobs are being saved for Harvard/Yale/NYU grads. Even if I retake the exam, I won't be going to Harvard.

The JD degree is useful in many different fields, even if one does not wish to work in a giant firm in Manhattan.
The Director of Judicial Affairs at my university has a JD (this is a type of job I would be very interested in).

So, like I said, I am not looking to increase my chances of getting in Harvard etc. I just would like to know of some decent schools in my grade-range that I might consider applying too.

Thanks!

eric922
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Re: Where should I apply?

Postby eric922 » Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:42 pm

houseofny wrote:I actually received substantial scholarships from several law schools. Not the highest rated, but a law school none the less.

I don't need to be reminded that the "big city" jobs are being saved for Harvard/Yale/NYU grads. Even if I retake the exam, I won't be going to Harvard.

The JD degree is useful in many different fields, even if one does not wish to work in a giant firm in Manhattan.
The Director of Judicial Affairs at my university has a JD (this is a type of job I would be very interested in).

So, like I said, I am not looking to increase my chances of getting in Harvard etc. I just would like to know of some decent schools in my grade-range that I might consider applying too.

Thanks!

No, but if you score in the 170's you have a good shot at Penn, UVA, GULC and a few more T14s. Get a 175 and NYU, Columbia, and Chicago become options. That is how important this test is. For good or ill it may very well be more important than your undergrad career.

PRgradBYU
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Re: Where should I apply?

Postby PRgradBYU » Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:49 pm

houseofny wrote:I just would like to know of some decent schools in my grade-range that I might consider applying too.


To be quite frank with you, with your LSAT and GPA, there aren't any schools you should consider applying to right now. That's why you ought to retake the LSAT; otherwise, law school won't make much sense financially. If you keep pursuing law school right now, the best case scenario is that you end up getting a minimal scholarship to a school you've never heard of and consequently, don't land a good (or even decent) job after graduating.

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TripTrip
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Re: Where should I apply?

Postby TripTrip » Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:58 pm

houseofny wrote:I actually received substantial scholarships from several law schools. Not the highest rated, but a law school none the less.

"Substantial" scholarships are meant to entice you. These schools have much higher tuition than necessary so that a $30,000 yearly scholarship looks like a lot when, in reality, it's hardly worth anything.

That, and have you read the stipulations attached? Maintaining grades and class rank in law school is not the same as in undergrad. The top GPA at some law schools is less than 3.9, and everyone assumes they will be in the top half of the class. Statistically, half of the class is wrong about this. Scholarships to law school are easy to lose.

houseofny wrote:The JD degree is useful in many different fields if you want to be an attorney, even if one does not wish to work in a giant firm in Manhattan.
The Director of Judicial Affairs at my university has a JD and was an attorney before getting his/her position (this is a type of job I would be very interested in).

You had a few typos, so I fixed that for you.

rad lulz
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Re: Where should I apply?

Postby rad lulz » Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:06 pm

Given the facts as presented here, you going to law school would be the height of idiocy.

houseofny
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Re: Where should I apply?

Postby houseofny » Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:33 pm

Why would it be the height of idiocy for me to go to law school?

I don't think people should be discouraged from pursuing a legal education because they aren't going to Harvard, Yale etc.
I know graduates of St. John's, Hofstra, and even Touro Law Center that are earning $150,000/year. It seems idiotic to state that going to law school is a waste if one does not have the grades to attend a top school.

Fortunately for me, I have a teaching certification to fall back on while applying for legal positions ($50,000+ starting salary and summers/holidays off...not too shabby).

People who attend lower-ranked law schools may not get the same jobs as Harvard graduates, but many of them do get positions as attorneys.

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paratactical
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Re: Where should I apply?

Postby paratactical » Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:46 pm

houseofny wrote:People who attend lower-ranked law schools may not get the same jobs as Harvard graduates, but many of them do get positions as attorneys.

I would like to know approximately what percentage you think constitutes "many".

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TripTrip
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Re: Where should I apply?

Postby TripTrip » Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:10 pm

houseofny wrote:I don't think people should be discouraged from pursuing a legal education because they aren't going to Harvard, Yale etc.
I think you're misunderstanding. It's not automatically a terrible idea to attend a top 50 or even top 100 law school (mind you, there's only 203 law schools, so T3 and T4 are the worse half). However, you need to have very specific strategies to approach those schools correctly. We keep giving you those strategies, and you keep coming back with "not everyone goes to Harvard." Irrelevant. You continue to make strawman rebuttals.

houseofny wrote:I know graduates of St. John's, Hofstra, and even Touro Law Center that are earning $150,000/year. It seems idiotic to state that going to law school is a waste if one does not have the grades to attend a top school.
And I know of someone who won the lottery. Just because it can happen doesn't mean you should bet $200,000 on it happening.

houseofny wrote:Fortunately for me, I have a teaching certification to fall back on while applying for legal positions ($50,000+ starting salary and summers/holidays off...not too shabby).
Then fall back on it now instead of wasting $200k on a legal education you can't use.

houseofny wrote:People who attend lower-ranked law schools may not get the same jobs as Harvard graduates, but many of them do get positions as attorneys.
And many don't. And even those that do don't usually make enough to pay back their debt if they didn't have a scholarship.

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Rahviveh
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Re: Where should I apply?

Postby Rahviveh » Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:18 pm

FYI op, a 153 is a pretty good cold score. Its very doable to hit the 160s in a month with hard studying.

RodneyBoonfield
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Re: Where should I apply?

Postby RodneyBoonfield » Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:27 pm

153

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Shmoopy
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Re: Where should I apply?

Postby Shmoopy » Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:43 pm

houseofny wrote:Fortunately for me, I have a teaching certification to fall back on while applying for legal positions ($50,000+ starting salary and summers/holidays off...not too shabby).


You should be aware that a JD may reduce your ability to get a job at a public school because union rules require people with grad degrees to be paid more. You should also be aware that it could be very difficult to pay back loans on that salary. And that a 3 year gap in your résumé looks really bad.

When you say "many" people at the schools you've mentioned get legal jobs, just how many do you mean? More than half? Check the employment numbers at law school transparency. It's more like a third. Ask yourself if it's really worth the money for a meh chance at ever working as an attorney. When you consider that most of the people who are working as attorneys from these schools are making less than you'd make as a teacher right now, with debt and longer, more stressful hours, ask yourself a second time.

At the very least, waiting a year and taking the LSAT again could lead to going one of the schools you've mentioned with a larger scholarship. Retake advice doesn't apply only to people who want to get into top schools.

For what it's worth, I work as a teacher right now and I got into a law school ranked similarly to the ones you're looking at with a full ride and stipend. I'm probably going to turn it down, because employment at that school just isn't good enough.
Last edited by Shmoopy on Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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wert3813
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Re: Where should I apply?

Postby wert3813 » Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:44 pm

houseofny wrote:Why would it be the height of idiocy for me to go to law school?

I don't think people should be discouraged from pursuing a legal education because they aren't going to Harvard, Yale etc.
I know graduates of St. John's, Hofstra, and even Touro Law Center that are earning $150,000/year. It seems idiotic to state that going to law school is a waste if one does not have the grades to attend a top school.

Fortunately for me, I have a teaching certification to fall back on while applying for legal positions ($50,000+ starting salary and summers/holidays off...not too shabby).

People who attend lower-ranked law schools may not get the same jobs as Harvard graduates, but many of them do get positions as attorneys.


Okay OP I'll bite.

1. Do you realize how bad the legal field is right now? It seems like you don't. Rather than rant I will give you one statistic. Last year there were something like 22,000 new legal jobs for over 40,000 graduates.
2. You couldn't get into this school. 50% of all graduates from this school don't get a long term job they couldn't get before going to this school. Graduates from this school are threatening their deans and suing their school because the think their diploma is worthless. http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=buffalo http://abovethelaw.com/2012/11/2012-law ... l-faculty/
3. If you won't listen do yourself a favor and check out these two websites extensively: insidethelawschoolscam.blogspot.com and lawschooltransparency.com
4. The way you are saying you CAN teach suggests you have never been a fulltime teacher (student teaching doesn't count). You might find it not to be the cushy job you think.

Best of luck in life.

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UnamSanctam
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Re: Where should I apply?

Postby UnamSanctam » Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:04 am

ChampagnePapi wrote:FYI op, a 153 is a pretty good cold score. Its very doable to hit the 160s in a month with hard studying.


Hell, my cold score was a 151 and I ended up hitting 169 and going T14. And that's common on TLS.

houseofny
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Re: Where should I apply?

Postby houseofny » Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:09 am

I am asking for suggestions on what schools I should apply to based on my grades.

I'm not asking to be bombarded with comments about how going to a lower-ranked school will prevent me from ever getting a job as an attorney. I appreciate the "warnings," but my current financial situation is allowing for me to study law, and that is what I plan on doing.

Do you think if I retake the LSAT in February, it will be too late to apply to law schools with that grade for Fall 2013 admission?




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