3.21 / 175 - chances at Top 14 with $

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ercmilla
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3.21 / 175 - chances at Top 14 with $

Postby ercmilla » Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:21 am

Greetings.

Questions: Considering a GPA of 3.21 and an LSAT of 175, what are my chances of making it into the following schools? Also, what are my chances of making it into the following schools with some sort of scholarship? If any scholarship money, how much?

*In order of preference:
1)UVA (I'm alumni - not sure if it helps, but I would love to return)
2)Duke
3)Penn
4)Michigan
5)Georgetown

Other "relevant" information: 2-3 years management consulting experience (big retail banks), UVA alumn, and I have some decent softs like Student Council President.

I understand I'm a splitter with a rather low GPA relative to T14 medians, but I split in the right direction.


On a side note: After reading all the warnings in this forum, I have been rethinking my desire to attend Law School due to potential debt burden on my wife and I. If it were just me, I would shoulder the risk no problem. I think it would be the optimal to attend the best school among the T14 that would give me some scholarship money, but I don't know if it's feasible given my low GPA. Am I out of line here?

I'm just looking for frank answers so that I can make the most informed decision. Thank you all.

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dingbat
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Re: 3.21 / 175 - chances at Top 14 with $

Postby dingbat » Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:26 am

you should get some money from UVA

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bowser
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Re: 3.21 / 175 - chances at Top 14 with $

Postby bowser » Tue Jan 01, 2013 3:12 am

lawschoolnumbers.com

Your LSAT should get you $$ somewhere.

ercmilla
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Re: 3.21 / 175 - chances at Top 14 with $

Postby ercmilla » Tue Jan 01, 2013 3:18 am

bowser wrote:lawschoolnumbers.com

Your LSAT should get you $$ somewhere.


I have been monitoring lawschoolnumbers.com. Two things: 1) There isn't enough sample (for my number range) to extract anything meaningful. It seems people with 3.2 GPAs don't get 175+ very often. and 2) Law School admissions seem to be very different this cycle. Thanks for your input.

In all, I'm seeing two responses claiming that I should receive $ from a t14, and one person saying that I should receive $ from UVA - that is good to hear.

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dingbat
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Re: 3.21 / 175 - chances at Top 14 with $

Postby dingbat » Tue Jan 01, 2013 3:20 am

ercmilla wrote:
bowser wrote:lawschoolnumbers.com

Your LSAT should get you $$ somewhere.


I have been monitoring lawschoolnumbers.com. Two things: 1) There isn't enough sample (for my number range) to extract anything meaningful. It seems people with 3.2 GPAs don't get 175+ very often. and 2) Law School admissions seem to be very different this cycle. Thanks for your input.

In all, I'm seeing two responses claiming that I should receive $ from a t14, and one person saying that I should receive $ from UVA - that is good to hear.

UVA is known for being splitter friendly and they'll love that 175. The rest of the cycle is unpredictable, but I'd expect you to get a good 5 or 6 hits within the T14, and maybe a couple of waitlists.

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suralin
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Re: 3.21 / 175 - chances at Top 14 with $

Postby suralin » Tue Jan 01, 2013 3:24 am

Here are what scores close to yours have gotten in the past several years:
http://myLSN.info/17xzwa

Duke is a maybe because they generally want a higher GPA, but the low number of applications and a good Why Duke may offset that.

You're solid for the other schools. Not sure about $, but you should receive some.

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bowser
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Re: 3.21 / 175 - chances at Top 14 with $

Postby bowser » Tue Jan 01, 2013 3:32 am

ercmilla wrote: I have been monitoring lawschoolnumbers.com. Two things: 1) There isn't enough sample (for my number range) to extract anything meaningful. It seems people with 3.2 GPAs don't get 175+ very often. and 2) Law School admissions seem to be very different this cycle. Thanks for your input.

In all, I'm seeing two responses claiming that I should receive $ from a t14, and one person saying that I should receive $ from UVA - that is good to hear.


I remember at least a few cases of TLS posters with 2.9-3.2 GPA's and 175+ LSATs; it seemed like a lot of them went to NU, with some at Georgetown. I'm not sure if I'm remembering correctly, but some low 3 GPA's got into NYU and Columbia my cycle too, although I don't think Columbia went as low as 3.2. A GPA addendum would probably do you some good. If the fall in LSAT scores this cycle is similar to the one from last, a 175 LSAT is an even more rare commodity this time around.

nebula666
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Re: 3.21 / 175 - chances at Top 14 with $

Postby nebula666 » Tue Jan 01, 2013 9:34 am

You are looking at $ from Gtown, Michigan, and NW.

mr.hands
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Re: 3.21 / 175 - chances at Top 14 with $

Postby mr.hands » Tue Jan 01, 2013 4:30 pm

nebula666 wrote:You are looking at $ from Gtown, Michigan, and NW.


I tend to agree. UVA will give you something, probably. Gtown and Michigan are also good options

Duke is GPA whorish, so a GPA under their 25% and an LSAT above their 75% won't help you out.

EDIT: I just saw your edit. Don't got to a T14 without money. If you get into the lower T14 with 40k+ i think it's an ok option. Short of that, i'd probably avoid ut

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Doorkeeper
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Re: 3.21 / 175 - chances at Top 14 with $

Postby Doorkeeper » Tue Jan 01, 2013 5:21 pm

1) You should throw an app to NYU. Looks like a few people got in with similar numbers over the past 2 cycles.

2) You're in at Georgetown. Probably with good $

3) Good shot at UVA and Northwestern (around 40%). Chance at money.

4) No shot at Duke.

5) You'll probably get WL at Penn and then it's all about whether they need a high LSAT.

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gnomgnomuch
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Re: 3.21 / 175 - chances at Top 14 with $

Postby gnomgnomuch » Tue Jan 01, 2013 7:06 pm

A couple of things ;

1) Is there a reason for your low GPA? was your major hard, family crisis, is there an upward trend? (For example, my first year of college i had a pedestrian 3.3, realized that i wanted a top school, and have been averaging a 3.85 since then)
2) Is a T-14 the only schools you would be interested in? I think youd have a great chance at some stellar schools (Vanderbilt,Texas,Emory,Notre Dame) With very substantial scholarships.
3)From what ive heard Michigan is very splitter friendly and your LSAT is def above thier average, they might reward you for that.

Id say youd get in T8-T14, maybe a couple waitlists/some scholarships (based on Adcom's) T1-7 you might get a hit on one or two, though HYS is out of the question.

GL =)

ercmilla
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Re: 3.21 / 175 - chances at Top 14 with $

Postby ercmilla » Tue Jan 01, 2013 7:21 pm

gnomgnomuch wrote:A couple of things ;

1) Is there a reason for your low GPA? was your major hard, family crisis, is there an upward trend? (For example, my first year of college i had a pedestrian 3.3, realized that i wanted a top school, and have been averaging a 3.85 since then)
2) Is a T-14 the only schools you would be interested in? I think youd have a great chance at some stellar schools (Vanderbilt,Texas,Emory,Notre Dame) With very substantial scholarships.
3)From what ive heard Michigan is very splitter friendly and your LSAT is def above thier average, they might reward you for that.

Id say youd get in T8-T14, maybe a couple waitlists/some scholarships (based on Adcom's) T1-7 you might get a hit on one or two, though HYS is out of the question.

GL =)


1) Yes, I worked full-time 3 of the 4 years of my undergrad so I could afford to attend UVA. I sold cell phones for a large provider ;D. I am proud of my GPA actually. My parents didn't help me out and I brute forced it. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to factor in admissions decisions, which is why I didn't mention it on the forums. Oh well!

2) I would be interested in Emory due to geography. Otherwise, I want to maximize my chances at getting the jobs needed to pay off law school debt, which would be mid - biglaw. The T14 would increase my chances in this regard, which is why I have been hoping to attend a T14 with scholarships. That would seem to be ideal. On the other hand, the T14-30 don't seem to be placing students in the best jobs anymore (even with great grades). There is a dilemma here that has me puzzled.

I'm actually open to waiting one more year - I'm not in a huge rush. I'm fortunate enough to have a decent job at the moment.

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Doorkeeper
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Re: 3.21 / 175 - chances at Top 14 with $

Postby Doorkeeper » Tue Jan 01, 2013 8:28 pm

I would make sure to write a GPA addendum emphasizing your work during school and your independence from your family, which led you to have to shoulder more responsibility than many of your peers.

ercmilla
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Re: 3.21 / 175 - chances at Top 14 with $

Postby ercmilla » Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:32 pm

So should I not ED anywhere?

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moonman157
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Re: 3.21 / 175 - chances at Top 14 with $

Postby moonman157 » Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:36 pm

ercmilla wrote:So should I not ED anywhere?


Most ED deadlines have passed. But I wouldn't ED this cycle; that LSAT score is a hot commodity, and if you're willing to stick it out until the end and ride some waitlists, I think at least one T14 will eventually cave in and offer you a good chunk of change. Good luck!

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Doorkeeper
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Re: 3.21 / 175 - chances at Top 14 with $

Postby Doorkeeper » Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:38 pm

ercmilla wrote:So should I not ED anywhere?

The problem with ED is that you have to accept any scholarship amount the school wants to give you, which could be $0.

If you want to maximize your chances of getting into the best school possible, I would ED to NYU or UVA. You would have a great shot at UVA in particular. The other option would be to ED to Northwestern, if you still can, because they give people accepted via ED a $150,000 scholarship, but I am not knowledgeable as to whether your GPA is high enough to be considered. I've heard of there being a 3.50 GPA floor for the Northwestern ED.

If, on the other hand, you want to be able to maximize your chances of scholarship money, then the best option is to not ED and hope you get into 2-3 T14 schools and you can negotiate with them.

ercmilla
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Re: 3.21 / 175 - chances at Top 14 with $

Postby ercmilla » Wed Jan 02, 2013 6:20 pm

moonman157 wrote:
ercmilla wrote:So should I not ED anywhere?


Most ED deadlines have passed. But I wouldn't ED this cycle; that LSAT score is a hot commodity, and if you're willing to stick it out until the end and ride some waitlists, I think at least one T14 will eventually cave in and offer you a good chunk of change. Good luck!


It may be too late this cycle, but not the next. I actually was originally intending on applying next cycle, but I am considering this cycle because I see some folks getting into great schools with worse LSAT/GPA scores. Considering my goals here, would anyone recommend waiting until next cycle.

Considering what people are saying, I may be able to optimize my negotiation position by applying to all my aforementioned schools in September-October. 1) Schools may be worried again next year about low scores and 2) early apps generally have looser requirements.

ercmilla
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Re: 3.21 / 175 - chances at Top 14 with $

Postby ercmilla » Wed Jan 02, 2013 6:30 pm

Doorkeeper wrote:
ercmilla wrote:So should I not ED anywhere?

If you want to maximize your chances of getting into the best school possible, I would ED to NYU or UVA.


I still am struggling with whether I would attend NYU, UVA, et al at sticker. I know this is a current debate ongoing, and it highly depends on law school performance. Damnit - I wish I had more information.

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Rahviveh
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Re: 3.21 / 175 - chances at Top 14 with $

Postby Rahviveh » Wed Jan 02, 2013 6:38 pm

You can also ED to Penn's second round. That's what I would do in your position. You should get in with those stats

ercmilla
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Re: 3.21 / 175 - chances at Top 14 with $

Postby ercmilla » Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:37 pm

So I've decided to apply next cycle.

A dilemma remains: pepper the T14 with RDs and hope for my dream schools (UVA and Penn), or ED to them and guarantee it.

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Rahviveh
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Re: 3.21 / 175 - chances at Top 14 with $

Postby Rahviveh » Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:42 pm

ercmilla wrote:So I've decided to apply next cycle.

A dilemma remains: pepper the T14 with RDs and hope for my dream schools (UVA and Penn), or ED to them and guarantee it.

You'll have several months to think about this and an extra year of LSN data

Debt is a big concern for you, but with that GPA you're not getting big schollies in the T14. Expect to be paying $200k+ out of pocket for law school.

At that point, how strong is your preference for UVA/Penn over other lower T14's? Is it worth more than the $30-45k you MIGHT get? If so, ED.

In your shoes I would not ED anywhere but that's because I don't have a strong preference for any of the schools you're competitive for (NYU on down).

ercmilla
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Re: 3.21 / 175 - chances at Top 14 with $

Postby ercmilla » Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:06 am

ChampagnePapi wrote:
ercmilla wrote:So I've decided to apply next cycle.

A dilemma remains: pepper the T14 with RDs and hope for my dream schools (UVA and Penn), or ED to them and guarantee it.

You'll have several months to think about this and an extra year of LSN data

Debt is a big concern for you, but with that GPA you're not getting big schollies in the T14. Expect to be paying $200k+ out of pocket for law school.

At that point, how strong is your preference for UVA/Penn over other lower T14's? Is it worth more than the $30-45k you MIGHT get? If so, ED.

In your shoes I would not ED anywhere but that's because I don't have a strong preference for any of the schools you're competitive for (NYU on down).


Yea, my wife and I do actually have strong preferences within the T14. UVA is located roughly one hour from both our families. If we were ever in a bad situation, I could potentially commute one hour everyday and live with my parents until the dust settled. Going to UVA (for our situation particularly), reduces some of the risk involved in going to law school.

Personally, I would absolutely love to go to another school if I could (particularly Penn because I love Philly and the school). I'm not sure it's worth it considering the advantage of attending UVA. I think ED UVA may be the way to go unfortunately.

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sinfiery
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Re: 3.21 / 175 - chances at Top 14 with $

Postby sinfiery » Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:19 am

ercmilla wrote:So I've decided to apply next cycle.

A dilemma remains: pepper the T14 with RDs and hope for my dream schools (UVA and Penn), or ED to them and guarantee it.


Send in an app to MVP this cycle and see how it goes with $$$.


http://lawschoolnumbers.com/Galpaino

ercmilla
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Re: 3.21 / 175 - chances at Top 14 with $

Postby ercmilla » Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:50 pm

sinfiery wrote:
ercmilla wrote:So I've decided to apply next cycle.

A dilemma remains: pepper the T14 with RDs and hope for my dream schools (UVA and Penn), or ED to them and guarantee it.


Send in an app to MVP this cycle and see how it goes with $$$.


http://lawschoolnumbers.com/Galpaino



I think it matters that Galpaino is a Virginia Resident applying to UVA. It is easier for him to get in and it probably puts him in a better position for merit scholarship. I actually attended UVA in-state as an undergrad, but I recently moved to Georgia not too long ago. I may actually still be a VA resident, but I haven't looked into that.

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sinfiery
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Re: 3.21 / 175 - chances at Top 14 with $

Postby sinfiery » Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:55 pm

ercmilla wrote:I think it matters that Galpaino is a Virginia Resident applying to UVA. It is easier for him to get in and it probably puts him in a better position for merit scholarship. I actually attended UVA in-state as an undergrad, but I recently moved to Georgia not too long ago. I may actually still be a VA resident, but I haven't looked into that.


I believe they have a 40% in-state quota, so definitely had some say in their decision. If you still are or aren't, It can't hurt to throw them an app this cycle if $ is your goal. Especially at UVA, they are going hard this year.




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