URM--Will t-14 take me?

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jmjones
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URM--Will t-14 take me?

Postby jmjones » Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:51 am

3.0 UGPA
160ish LSAT
AA Male
Regular softs, nothing special.
Last edited by jmjones on Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:16 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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hichvichwoh
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Re: URM--Will t-14 take me?

Postby hichvichwoh » Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:13 pm

Wormfather wrote:LSN and myLSN dont look too good for T14. Maybe Cornell will bite, you should get in somewhere between 14-25. Throw the apps out and see what happens.

Sorry that I couldn't give any better advice.


"check LSN" is probably the best advice anyone can give

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jmjones
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Re: URM--Will t-14 take me?

Postby jmjones » Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:15 pm

Wormfather wrote:LSN and myLSN dont look too good for T14. Maybe Cornell will bite, you should get in somewhere between 14-25. Throw the apps out and see what happens.

Sorry that I couldn't give any better advice.




I'm actually out of $. These are all the schools I can do for now. I'm leaning toward practicing in Boston so I wouldn't mind BC/BU/.
Last edited by jmjones on Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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NoodleyOne
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Re: URM--Will t-14 take me?

Postby NoodleyOne » Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:49 pm

Retake.

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Nova
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Re: URM--Will t-14 take me?

Postby Nova » Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:42 pm

Yeah, retake in Feb/June.

I know you said youre out of money, but a few hundred dollars now could likely save you thousands if you put in the time necessary to get closer to 170. For instance, hitting median at UMN (167) would mean 100k scholarship. 167 would also give you a great shot at some of the T14.

As is, like worm said, but especially, be sure to write a why UMN. Its probably your most solid shot + they will like to know you actually want to practice in the area.

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Doorkeeper
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Re: URM--Will t-14 take me?

Postby Doorkeeper » Tue Dec 18, 2012 2:25 pm

1) Retake.
2) Get fee waivers for your application.

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dietcoke0
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Re: URM--Will t-14 take me?

Postby dietcoke0 » Tue Dec 18, 2012 2:35 pm

Take year and work, retake, get higher, enjoy a better school/better life.

$500 is a drop in the bucket compared to hundreds of thousands in debt and lack of job prospects.

Manhattanman
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Re: URM--Will t-14 take me?

Postby Manhattanman » Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:11 pm

Why do you think you have a decent shot at Georgetown? Only asking because I got deferred with slightly better numbers and very good softs.

Anonimo
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Re: URM--Will t-14 take me?

Postby Anonimo » Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:36 am

I know it might sound repetitive that people advice you retake but consider this.. there is one study that gathered massive amounts of employment statistics of law schools graduates and they concluded that it is wiser to attend a top 10 law school at sticker than to attend a top 20 like UCLA with half scholarship.

Retake. 3-5 points could make a huge difference

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jmjones
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Re: URM--Will t-14 take me?

Postby jmjones » Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:54 am

Manhattanman wrote:Why do you think you have a decent shot at Georgetown? Only asking because I got deferred with slightly better numbers and very good softs.



I actually just assumed that from the fact that it has a large class and that I got an interview within 2 weeks of my app being sent in.
I hope that's something.

mr.hands
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Re: URM--Will t-14 take me?

Postby mr.hands » Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:57 am

Anonimo wrote:I know it might sound repetitive that people advice you retake but consider this.. there is one study that gathered massive amounts of employment statistics of law schools graduates and they concluded that it is wiser to attend a top 10 law school at sticker than to attend a top 20 like UCLA with half scholarship.

Retake. 3-5 points could make a huge difference


Really? Interesting. Can you PM me the link to this? I'd really like to read it

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jmjones
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Re: URM--Will t-14 take me?

Postby jmjones » Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:04 pm

Anonimo wrote:I know it might sound repetitive that people advice you retake but consider this.. there is one study that gathered massive amounts of employment statistics of law schools graduates and they concluded that it is wiser to attend a top 10 law school at sticker than to attend a top 20 like UCLA with half scholarship.

Retake. 3-5 points could make a huge difference



There was a discussion on here or was it a study I was reading elsewhere on the worldwideweb...but it actually stated that more people from lower ranked schools made partner. Something about Loyola having more partners than Uchicago.
I'm not sure if I want to be a partner but I do know that I want to be a beast of a lawyer. For that purpose, I cannot rely on a top, top school to keep opening doors for me once I land my first big-law gig. It motivates me to start from the bottom. I would be absolutely complacent if I started at Watchell/Cravath. I want to be the lawyer they poach from some mid-size firm in the middle of Idaho.

Still though, I went to an IVY league UG and I like the way people look at me and get that twinkle in their eye when I mention it. If I get into top-10 so be it. But I'm damn sure not re-taking that horrid exam to get into them.

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suralin
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Re: URM--Will t-14 take me?

Postby suralin » Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:05 pm

mr.hands wrote:
Anonimo wrote:I know it might sound repetitive that people advice you retake but consider this.. there is one study that gathered massive amounts of employment statistics of law schools graduates and they concluded that it is wiser to attend a top 10 law school at sticker than to attend a top 20 like UCLA with half scholarship.

Retake. 3-5 points could make a huge difference


Really? Interesting. Can you PM me the link to this? I'd really like to read it


Same. TYIA.

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suralin
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Re: URM--Will t-14 take me?

Postby suralin » Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:06 pm

jmjones wrote:
There was a discussion on here or was it a study I was reading elsewhere on the worldwideweb...but it actually stated that more people from lower ranked schools made partner. Something about Loyola having more partners than Uchicago.
I'm not sure if I want to be a partner but I do know that I want to be a beast of a lawyer. For that purpose, I cannot rely on a top, top school to keep opening doors for me once I land my first big-law gig. It motivates me to start from the bottom. I would be absolutely complacent if I started at Watchell/Cravath. I want to be the lawyer they poach from some mid-size firm in the middle of Idaho.

Still though, I went to an IVY league UG and I like the way people look at me and get that twinkle in their eye when I mention it. If I get into top-10 so be it. But I'm damn sure not re-taking that horrid exam to get into them.


JFC.

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somewhatwayward
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Re: URM--Will t-14 take me?

Postby somewhatwayward » Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:25 pm

jmjones wrote:There was a discussion on here or was it a study I was reading elsewhere on the worldwideweb...but it actually stated that more people from lower ranked schools made partner. Something about Loyola having more partners than Uchicago.
I'm not sure if I want to be a partner but I do know that I want to be a beast of a lawyer. For that purpose, I cannot rely on a top, top school to keep opening doors for me once I land my first big-law gig. It motivates me to start from the bottom. I would be absolutely complacent if I started at Watchell/Cravath. I want to be the lawyer they poach from some mid-size firm in the middle of Idaho.

Still though, I went to an IVY league UG and I like the way people look at me and get that twinkle in their eye when I mention it. If I get into top-10 so be it. But I'm damn sure not re-taking that horrid exam to get into them.


Okay, so there is a lot more you need to know. The study that showed that Loyola alums were better at making partner than UChi alums was seriously flawed. Its method was to compare, at one recent point in time, the number of current associates who were alums at various schools to the number of partners who were alums are various schools and come up with ratios. For example, if in 2011, say, there were 100 Loyola alum partners and 100 Loyola alum associates, you would have a 1:1 ratio, which looks a lot better than UChi's 1:4 ratio with 250 partners and 1,000 associates. The hidden thing, though, is that the reason for the discrepancy is that 10-20+ years ago when those Loyola partners got hired into big law, big law firms hired a much larger number of people from Loyola. Now they barely hire any. In comparison, big law firms have always hired lots of people from UChi, and they will continue to do so. What changed was that many fewer recent Loyola grads were hired as associates in the more recent years, so their ratio of associates to partners shot up. If the study wanted to actually show anything, it would need to follow the same cohort of lawyers from when they were hired as associates to when they made partner. Comparing current partners to current associates is completely asinine given the changes in hiring over the last 10-20 years.

Next, firms poach lawyers for one reason: having a big book of business (or perhaps a very distant second of having expertise in an extremely narrow field of law that is very lucrative, but that is so unusual you can basically ignore it). They don't poach people for being a "beast of a lawyer." The likelihood that a big firm will poach someone from a midsize Idaho firm is very small simply because they probably don't have a big enough book of business. Some may, and they may get poached. But big firms don't see you on the other side of a deal or lawsuit and get so dazzled with your knowledge of, say, Idaho civil procedure and decide that they must have this beast.

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Icculus
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Re: URM--Will t-14 take me?

Postby Icculus » Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:26 pm

jmjones wrote:
Anonimo wrote:I know it might sound repetitive that people advice you retake but consider this.. there is one study that gathered massive amounts of employment statistics of law schools graduates and they concluded that it is wiser to attend a top 10 law school at sticker than to attend a top 20 like UCLA with half scholarship.

Retake. 3-5 points could make a huge difference



There was a discussion on here or was it a study I was reading elsewhere on the worldwideweb...but it actually stated that more people from lower ranked schools made partner. Something about Loyola having more partners than Uchicago.
I'm not sure if I want to be a partner but I do know that I want to be a beast of a lawyer. For that purpose, I cannot rely on a top, top school to keep opening doors for me once I land my first big-law gig. It motivates me to start from the bottom. I would be absolutely complacent if I started at Watchell/Cravath. I want to be the lawyer they poach from some mid-size firm in the middle of Idaho.

Still though, I went to an IVY league UG and I like the way people look at me and get that twinkle in their eye when I mention it. If I get into top-10 so be it. But I'm damn sure not re-taking that horrid exam to get into them.


All right then. I think this has to be one of the dumbest posts I have ever read on this forum.

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TripTrip
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Re: URM--Will t-14 take me?

Postby TripTrip » Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:30 pm

Icculus wrote:
jmjones wrote:
Anonimo wrote:I know it might sound repetitive that people advice you retake but consider this.. there is one study that gathered massive amounts of employment statistics of law schools graduates and they concluded that it is wiser to attend a top 10 law school at sticker than to attend a top 20 like UCLA with half scholarship.

Retake. 3-5 points could make a huge difference



There was a discussion on here or was it a study I was reading elsewhere on the worldwideweb...but it actually stated that more people from lower ranked schools made partner. Something about Loyola having more partners than Uchicago.
I'm not sure if I want to be a partner but I do know that I want to be a beast of a lawyer. For that purpose, I cannot rely on a top, top school to keep opening doors for me once I land my first big-law gig. It motivates me to start from the bottom. I would be absolutely complacent if I started at Watchell/Cravath. I want to be the lawyer they poach from some mid-size firm in the middle of Idaho.

Still though, I went to an IVY league UG and I like the way people look at me and get that twinkle in their eye when I mention it. If I get into top-10 so be it. But I'm damn sure not re-taking that horrid exam to get into them.


All right then. I think this has to be one of the dumbest posts I have ever read on this forum.

+1

Anonimo
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Re: URM--Will t-14 take me?

Postby Anonimo » Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:40 pm

mr.hands wrote:
Anonimo wrote:I know it might sound repetitive that people advice you retake but consider this.. there is one study that gathered massive amounts of employment statistics of law schools graduates and they concluded that it is wiser to attend a top 10 law school at sticker than to attend a top 20 like UCLA with half scholarship.

Retake. 3-5 points could make a huge difference


Really? Interesting. Can you PM me the link to this? I'd really like to read it


I looked it up for an hour because I didn't wanted to come off like I was pulling stats out of nowhere haha..

HERE IT IS. http://www.econ.wisc.edu/workshop/selective.pdf

Page 21 Investments by aspiring lawyers

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jmjones
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Re: URM--Will t-14 take me?

Postby jmjones » Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:08 pm

Icculus wrote:
jmjones wrote:
Anonimo wrote:I know it might sound repetitive that people advice you retake but consider this.. there is one study that gathered massive amounts of employment statistics of law schools graduates and they concluded that it is wiser to attend a top 10 law school at sticker than to attend a top 20 like UCLA with half scholarship.

Retake. 3-5 points could make a huge difference



There was a discussion on here or was it a study I was reading elsewhere on the worldwideweb...but it actually stated that more people from lower ranked schools made partner. Something about Loyola having more partners than Uchicago.
I'm not sure if I want to be a partner but I do know that I want to be a beast of a lawyer. For that purpose, I cannot rely on a top, top school to keep opening doors for me once I land my first big-law gig. It motivates me to start from the bottom. I would be absolutely complacent if I started at Watchell/Cravath. I want to be the lawyer they poach from some mid-size firm in the middle of Idaho.

Still though, I went to an IVY league UG and I like the way people look at me and get that twinkle in their eye when I mention it. If I get into top-10 so be it. But I'm damn sure not re-taking that horrid exam to get into them.


All right then. I think this has to be one of the dumbest posts I have ever read on this forum.



I love TLS and how people here have their own reality.
Also, they take things so literal. Idaho doesn't mean idaho. It could mean Albany, Denver or India.
Last edited by jmjones on Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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jmjones
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Re: URM--Will t-14 take me?

Postby jmjones » Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:09 pm

Wormfather wrote:
Icculus wrote:
jmjones wrote:
Anonimo wrote:I know it might sound repetitive that people advice you retake but consider this.. there is one study that gathered massive amounts of employment statistics of law schools graduates and they concluded that it is wiser to attend a top 10 law school at sticker than to attend a top 20 like UCLA with half scholarship.

Retake. 3-5 points could make a huge difference



There was a discussion on here or was it a study I was reading elsewhere on the worldwideweb...but it actually stated that more people from lower ranked schools made partner. Something about Loyola having more partners than Uchicago.
I'm not sure if I want to be a partner but I do know that I want to be a beast of a lawyer. For that purpose, I cannot rely on a top, top school to keep opening doors for me once I land my first big-law gig. It motivates me to start from the bottom. I would be absolutely complacent if I started at Watchell/Cravath. I want to be the lawyer they poach from some mid-size firm in the middle of Idaho.

Still though, I went to an IVY league UG and I like the way people look at me and get that twinkle in their eye when I mention it. If I get into top-10 so be it. But I'm damn sure not re-taking that horrid exam to get into them.


All right then. I think this has to be one of the dumbest posts I have ever read on this forum.


Yeah, dude, you're wasting your future. If you cant deal with taking that "horrid exam" again you should really reconsider your life goals.

Signed,
3-time test taker

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somewhatwayward
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Re: URM--Will t-14 take me?

Postby somewhatwayward » Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:29 am

jmjones wrote:
Icculus wrote:
jmjones wrote:There was a discussion on here or was it a study I was reading elsewhere on the worldwideweb...but it actually stated that more people from lower ranked schools made partner. Something about Loyola having more partners than Uchicago.
I'm not sure if I want to be a partner but I do know that I want to be a beast of a lawyer. For that purpose, I cannot rely on a top, top school to keep opening doors for me once I land my first big-law gig. It motivates me to start from the bottom. I would be absolutely complacent if I started at Watchell/Cravath. I want to be the lawyer they poach from some mid-size firm in the middle of Idaho.

Still though, I went to an IVY league UG and I like the way people look at me and get that twinkle in their eye when I mention it. If I get into top-10 so be it. But I'm damn sure not re-taking that horrid exam to get into them.


All right then. I think this has to be one of the dumbest posts I have ever read on this forum.



I love TLS and how people here have their own reality.
Also, they take things so literal. Idaho doesn't mean idaho. It could mean Albany, Denver or India.


It has nothing to do with your use of Idaho as an example. I repeat:

me wrote:....blah, blah [bottom line: the Loyola study was flawed]...

Firms poach lawyers for one reason: having a big book of business (or perhaps a very distant second of having expertise in an extremely narrow field of law that is very lucrative, but that is so unusual you can basically ignore it). They don't poach people for being a "beast of a lawyer." The likelihood that a big firm will poach someone from a midsize Idaho NY/CO/India firm is very small simply because they probably don't have a big enough book of business. Some may, and they may get poached. But big firms don't see you on the other side of a deal or lawsuit and get so dazzled with your knowledge of, say, Idaho NY/CO/India civil procedure and decide that they must have this beast.


The best thing for you to do is retake. At the very least you will get $$$ at the schools you are currently considering. Don't go to like UMinn at sticker and think you are going to lateral into big law by being a beast.

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jcan91
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Re: URM--Will t-14 take me?

Postby jcan91 » Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:32 pm

While it probably isn't likely, just figured I'd post this as a source of hope anyway since you said money for apps is running low right now. This guy had your numbers and he had a hell of a cycle.

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/miracle2011/jd

Also, request fee waivers from everyone ranked 15-25 and that way you'll only have to spend the $21 on each. I got fee waivers for every school I applied to and it really helped.

20141023
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Re: URM--Will t-14 take me?

Postby 20141023 » Tue Dec 25, 2012 11:00 am

.
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manofjustice
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Re: URM--Will t-14 take me?

Postby manofjustice » Tue Dec 25, 2012 3:08 pm

120 on the thread title.




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