3.65/172/AA male URM/Non-trad

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anonymous0101
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3.65/172/AA male URM/Non-trad

Postby anonymous0101 » Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:15 pm

Just found this site, lots of great info. First post.

Being non-traditional and AA male URM, myLSN and other "predictors" aren't that accurate, so I figured I would get some human advice.

So, with a 3.65/172 + AA male URM + non-trad (rough background and socioeconomic conditions, 4+ yrs out of undergrad, lots of relevant work experience, worked full-time during UG etc), what would my chances be?

I'm shooting for HYSCCN but figure my GPA is too low for them?

005618502
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Re: 3.65/172/AA male URM/Non-trad

Postby 005618502 » Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:27 pm

anonymous0101 wrote:Just found this site, lots of great info. First post.

Being non-traditional and AA male URM, myLSN and other "predictors" aren't that accurate, so I figured I would get some human advice.

So, with a 3.65/172 + AA male URM + non-trad (rough background and socioeconomic conditions, 4+ yrs out of undergrad, lots of relevant work experience, worked full-time during UG etc), what would my chances be?

I'm shooting for HYSCCN but figure my GPA is too low for them?


You will likely get into at least one of HYS because you're URM

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TripTrip
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Re: 3.65/172/AA male URM/Non-trad

Postby TripTrip » Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:32 pm

Dat LSAT + URM = overrides GPA.

http://myLSN.info/x9h7fn

anonymous0101
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Re: 3.65/172/AA male URM/Non-trad

Postby anonymous0101 » Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:38 pm

TripTrip wrote:Dat LSAT + URM = overrides GPA.

http://myLSN.info/x9h7fn


Whoa. That's welcome news. Had no idea chances at HYS were so high. I'm aiming for H but thought I had no chance. myLSN seems to indicate 100% of applicants with my #s got in?

Thanks a bunch. I'm trying to boost my GPA as much as possible but I don't think it'll go any higher than a 3.68 by next September.

anonymous0101
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Re: 3.65/172/AA male URM/Non-trad

Postby anonymous0101 » Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:39 pm

AssumptionRequired wrote:
anonymous0101 wrote:Just found this site, lots of great info. First post.

Being non-traditional and AA male URM, myLSN and other "predictors" aren't that accurate, so I figured I would get some human advice.

So, with a 3.65/172 + AA male URM + non-trad (rough background and socioeconomic conditions, 4+ yrs out of undergrad, lots of relevant work experience, worked full-time during UG etc), what would my chances be?

I'm shooting for HYSCCN but figure my GPA is too low for them?


You will likely get into at least one of HYS because you're URM


The URM status counts that much more than WE, background, etc?

Ti Malice
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Re: 3.65/172/AA male URM/Non-trad

Postby Ti Malice » Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:43 pm

anonymous0101 wrote:
AssumptionRequired wrote:
anonymous0101 wrote:Just found this site, lots of great info. First post.

Being non-traditional and AA male URM, myLSN and other "predictors" aren't that accurate, so I figured I would get some human advice.

So, with a 3.65/172 + AA male URM + non-trad (rough background and socioeconomic conditions, 4+ yrs out of undergrad, lots of relevant work experience, worked full-time during UG etc), what would my chances be?

I'm shooting for HYSCCN but figure my GPA is too low for them?


You will likely get into at least one of HYS because you're URM


The URM status counts that much more than WE, background, etc?


Definitely.

Congrats! You should be getting into at least two of YHS.

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twenty
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Re: 3.65/172/AA male URM/Non-trad

Postby twenty » Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:45 pm

anonymous0101 wrote:The URM status counts that much more than WE, background, etc?


Had you worked for six years on a PhD with extensive research in curing a major disease, written multiple published papers, been a D1 athlete, had helped draft a developing nation's constitution, and received a purple heart, all those combined are less helpful than being a URM.

anonymous0101
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Re: 3.65/172/AA male URM/Non-trad

Postby anonymous0101 » Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:51 pm

twentypercentmore wrote:
anonymous0101 wrote:The URM status counts that much more than WE, background, etc?


Had you worked for six years on a PhD with extensive research in curing a major disease, written multiple published papers, been a D1 athlete, had helped draft a developing nation's constitution, and received a purple heart, all those combined are less helpful than being a URM.


My response to this is that pre-law undergrad counselors are U.S.E.L.E.S.S.

That or I'm getting flamed by this entire site.

So then what is the AA male URM GPA floor for HYS, if not mine? lol

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hume85
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Re: 3.65/172/AA male URM/Non-trad

Postby hume85 » Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:52 pm

twentypercentmore wrote:
anonymous0101 wrote:The URM status counts that much more than WE, background, etc?


Had you worked for six years on a PhD with extensive research in curing a major disease, written multiple published papers, been a D1 athlete, had helped draft a developing nation's constitution, and received a purple heart, all those combined are less helpful than being a URM.


Hyperbole much?

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twenty
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Re: 3.65/172/AA male URM/Non-trad

Postby twenty » Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:55 pm

Nah bro. All of those are actual examples of softs I've seen on LSN. Haven't seen them all combined yet, but there's some impressive people out there that don't get in.

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hume85
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Re: 3.65/172/AA male URM/Non-trad

Postby hume85 » Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:57 pm

twentypercentmore wrote:Nah bro. All of those are actual examples of softs I've seen on LSN. Haven't seen them all combined yet, but there's some impressive people out there that don't get in.


I remember that chick that wrote a bestseller and got into Yale with a 160. And combining all of the things you mentioned is doubtful to be <URM. But each soft alone: I see your point.

Ti Malice
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Re: 3.65/172/AA male URM/Non-trad

Postby Ti Malice » Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:06 pm

anonymous0101 wrote:
twentypercentmore wrote:
anonymous0101 wrote:The URM status counts that much more than WE, background, etc?


Had you worked for six years on a PhD with extensive research in curing a major disease, written multiple published papers, been a D1 athlete, had helped draft a developing nation's constitution, and received a purple heart, all those combined are less helpful than being a URM.


My response to this is that pre-law undergrad counselors are U.S.E.L.E.S.S.

That or I'm getting flamed by this entire site.

So then what is the AA male URM GPA floor for HYS, if not mine? lol


Prelaw advisors are almost uniformly worthless. Stay away from them.

Your GPA is definitely not the floor for YHS. The lowest GPA in the last admitted class at YLS was a 3.49.

anonymous0101
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Re: 3.65/172/AA male URM/Non-trad

Postby anonymous0101 » Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:21 pm

Thanks for all of the advice.

Two more questions:

1. Should I shoot for a retake if I think I can score a bit higher?
2. I'm mixed race (Dad - AA, Mom - not), does this lower that vaunted boost?

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TripTrip
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Re: 3.65/172/AA male URM/Non-trad

Postby TripTrip » Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:24 pm

anonymous0101 wrote:1. Should I shoot for a retake if I think I can score a bit higher?
2. I'm mixed race (Dad - AA, Mom - not), does this lower that vaunted boost?

1. When are you planning on applying? If this cycle, then no. If next, TLS always says retake. I really don't think it is necessary in your case. However, if you're up to the task, it won't hurt you.
2. No.

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John_rizzy_rawls
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Re: 3.65/172/AA male URM/Non-trad

Postby John_rizzy_rawls » Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:27 pm

anonymous0101 wrote:Thanks for all of the advice.

Two more questions:

1. Should I shoot for a retake if I think I can score a bit higher?
2. I'm mixed race (Dad - AA, Mom - not), does this lower that vaunted boost?


We're almost numbers and situation twins (3.7/170/mixed race URM).

Answer to 1: Sure. I'm retaking my 170 shooting for higher.
Answer to 2: I don't know. The consensus seems to be that it makes no difference but I'm not 100% sure. I'm not sure if any odd factors diminish the boost - last name, skin color, etc. I would think (hope) not. If you want maximum boost, consensus seems to be to provide a Diversity Statement. But again, not sure on this question.
Last edited by John_rizzy_rawls on Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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TripTrip
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Re: 3.65/172/AA male URM/Non-trad

Postby TripTrip » Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:42 pm

John_rizzy_rawls wrote:Answer to 2: I don't know. The consensus seems to be that it makes no difference but I'm not 100% sure.

Here's a diversity statement ABOUT being half and half: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=25821

JWalker
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Re: 3.65/172/AA male URM/Non-trad

Postby JWalker » Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:43 pm

You'd very likely get CCN even without URM.

Enjoy HYS.

Anonimo
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Re: 3.65/172/AA male URM/Non-trad

Postby Anonimo » Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:41 am

twentypercentmore wrote:
anonymous0101 wrote:The URM status counts that much more than WE, background, etc?


Had you worked for six years on a PhD with extensive research in curing a major disease, written multiple published papers, been a D1 athlete, had helped draft a developing nation's constitution, and received a purple heart, all those combined are less helpful than being a URM.


You just provided me with 3 minutes of laughs...

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amc987
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Re: 3.65/172/AA male URM/Non-trad

Postby amc987 » Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:14 am

OP, you should be more than fine for the T6. I got CCN with a .1 lower GPA and 3 points lower on the LSAT. I would be really surprised if you didn't get at least 2 of HYS. The Yale thing is a little iffy because of your GPA (they really love people with GPAs above 3.8 and might even take someone with a 3.8/166-168 instead of you). Your chances there will be better if you went to a top 20 school for UG. There's no reason not to think positively about your chances at Y with your current numbers.

Congrats in advance. You should have a VERY successful application cycle!

PS I see no reason to retake a 172. You already in the 99th percentile generally and very high into the 99th percentile for AA test takers. But if you really think you can do significantly better (175+), then go crazy. I don't know how much value a slightly higher score would add, though.

Anonymous4444
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Re: 3.65/172/AA male URM/Non-trad

Postby Anonymous4444 » Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:14 pm

dude ur gonna get in everywhere. its going to be ridiculous your gonna have to fend off ccn bec hys will be gunning for u.

i am totally serious not joking at all. dude i think u can get serious scholly from chicago/nyu and columbia

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052220151
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Re: 3.65/172/AA male URM/Non-trad

Postby 052220151 » Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:53 pm

amc987 wrote:OP, you should be more than fine for the T6. I got CCN with a .1 lower GPA and 3 points lower on the LSAT. I would be really surprised if you didn't get at least 2 of HYS. The Yale thing is a little iffy because of your GPA (they really love people with GPAs above 3.8 and might even take someone with a 3.8/166-168 instead of you). Your chances there will be better if you went to a top 20 school for UG. There's no reason not to think positively about your chances at Y with your current numbers.

Congrats in advance. You should have a VERY successful application cycle!

PS I see no reason to retake a 172. You already in the 99th percentile generally and very high into the 99th percentile for AA test takers. But if you really think you can do significantly better (175+), then go crazy. I don't know how much value a slightly higher score would add, though.



Yale taking a 166/3.8 over a 3.65/172 urm. Lolz

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amc987
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Re: 3.65/172/AA male URM/Non-trad

Postby amc987 » Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:48 pm

deputydog wrote:Yale taking a 166/3.8 over a 3.65/172 urm. Lolz


In case my post wasn't clear, I meant that Yale might admit a 3.8+/166-168 URM over a 3.65/172 URM. I didn't mean that they'd be likely to choose a 3.8/166 non-URM over a 3.65/172 URM. I'm sure weirder things have happened, however.

Anecdotally, I know 4 AAs who applied to YLS last cycle. The first is a 3.7/170 AA male who was rejected. The second is a 3.85/165 AA male who was wait listed. The third is a 4.0/165 AA male who was accepted. And the 4th is a 4.0/172 AA female who was accepted. Just for some context, the first two people were accepted at H and S, the third was accepted at H and Y, and the fourth was accepted at HYS. There are obviously factors other than sheer numbers at play here (quality of essays, LORs, resume, UG institution, etc.), but I think it's reasonable to say that in certain cases, Yale favors GPA over LSAT for URMs to the extent that having a 3.65 might hurt the chances of a URM with a 172 LSAT.

Like I said, I would be surprised if OP didn't get at least 2 of the 3 because his numbers are very solid. But you never know for sure until you actually apply. A few cycles ago, an AA woman with a 3.65/171 got all of HYS. However, this cycle an AA woman with a 3.78/171 got S but not H or Y while a 3.7/174 AA woman swept HYS. Given OP's numbers, predicting his result at Y is more of an art than a science. His best bet is to put together the best app he can and hope for the best.

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oshberg28
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Re: 3.65/172/AA male URM/Non-trad

Postby oshberg28 » Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:08 pm

anonymous0101 wrote:
TripTrip wrote:Dat LSAT + URM = overrides GPA.

http://myLSN.info/x9h7fn


Whoa. That's welcome news. Had no idea chances at HYS were so high. I'm aiming for H but thought I had no chance. myLSN seems to indicate 100% of applicants with my #s got in?

Thanks a bunch. I'm trying to boost my GPA as much as possible but I don't think it'll go any higher than a 3.68 by next September.


How do you plan on boosting your GPA when you have been out of UG for 4+ years?




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