Military Soft

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TheJanitor6203
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Military Soft

Postby TheJanitor6203 » Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:25 pm

How much of a bump is being a veteran? Does any know or is there a way to figure out how many "points this adds to my LSAT"? .. Or any soft for that matter?

If you are a veteran already accepted/attending ls could you post your numbers/median numbers of the school you got into.

I would also assume that the value of this soft varies between schools as well.

jgconte
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Re: Military Soft

Postby jgconte » Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:44 pm

I think it definely depends on a case to case basis. You get a boost either way, but I would think that someone who has been in leadership positions, combat experience etc. will get more of a boost than someone who just served in the national guard for a few years and never deployed (not to say that this is not honorable). There is no "+5 to the LSAT", it all depends on your application and how you frame your service.

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TheJanitor6203
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Re: Military Soft

Postby TheJanitor6203 » Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:12 pm

jgconte wrote:I think it definely depends on a case to case basis. You get a boost either way, but I would think that someone who has been in leadership positions, combat experience etc. will get more of a boost than someone who just served in the national guard for a few years and never deployed (not to say that this is not honorable). There is no "+5 to the LSAT", it all depends on your application and how you frame your service.


Thanks for the reply. That's basically what I was already thinking. The hard part is putting that experience on paper. I haven't started my resume yet because I'm still thinking about how to translate my military experience into something a law school would care about.

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gobuffs10
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Re: Military Soft

Postby gobuffs10 » Wed Dec 05, 2012 10:01 pm

TheJanitor6203 wrote:
jgconte wrote:I think it definely depends on a case to case basis. You get a boost either way, but I would think that someone who has been in leadership positions, combat experience etc. will get more of a boost than someone who just served in the national guard for a few years and never deployed (not to say that this is not honorable). There is no "+5 to the LSAT", it all depends on your application and how you frame your service.


Thanks for the reply. That's basically what I was already thinking. The hard part is putting that experience on paper. I haven't started my resume yet because I'm still thinking about how to translate my military experience into something a law school would care about.


What rank were you when you got out? A classmate was an infantry captain and did a few tours, so if you led like he did, I'm sure you could discuss it in your personal statement. Maybe something about being responsible for others and solving problems, or how it shows your commitment to serving others.

I'd try to incorporate it into the PS and not just your resume. Some may disagree with me on this, think it's corny or something. But I think you can at least use it as an example of a commitment to service, ability to adapt and problem solve, etc.

Burne182
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Re: Military Soft

Postby Burne182 » Wed Dec 05, 2012 10:08 pm

I can't tell how much of a bump I got numerically, but I seriously outperformed my numbers and I'm quite sure it was mostly my military experience. (I was a D1 athlete as well, which might have helped, but most of the Deans that I talked to noted my military service specifically.)

I'm not saying I got into amazing schools (or can afford to go to the best ones I did) but it absolutely helped. I know this sounds stereotypical, but the schools in the South valued my service a lot more, to the tune of admission when I was a bunch outside their medians and even scholarship when I was close.

Feel free to PM me for any details and good luck!

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TheJanitor6203
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Re: Military Soft

Postby TheJanitor6203 » Wed Dec 05, 2012 10:33 pm

gobuffs10 wrote:
TheJanitor6203 wrote:
jgconte wrote:I think it definely depends on a case to case basis. You get a boost either way, but I would think that someone who has been in leadership positions, combat experience etc. will get more of a boost than someone who just served in the national guard for a few years and never deployed (not to say that this is not honorable). There is no "+5 to the LSAT", it all depends on your application and how you frame your service.


Thanks for the reply. That's basically what I was already thinking. The hard part is putting that experience on paper. I haven't started my resume yet because I'm still thinking about how to translate my military experience into something a law school would care about.


What rank were you when you got out? A classmate was an infantry captain and did a few tours, so if you led like he did, I'm sure you could discuss it in your personal statement. Maybe something about being responsible for others and solving problems, or how it shows your commitment to serving others.

I'd try to incorporate it into the PS and not just your resume. Some may disagree with me on this, think it's corny or something. But I think you can at least use it as an example of a commitment to service, ability to adapt and problem solve, etc.


Still in and I'm a Staff Sergeant. I think I've covered the stuff you mentioned in my PS. I tried to show that the Army has given me experience in leadership, working as a team, being responsible for others, being resourceful and how the military has exposed me to new/different environments and experiences and how I've been able to work with people from lots of different socioeconomic backgrounds.

Burne182 wrote:I can't tell how much of a bump I got numerically, but I seriously outperformed my numbers and I'm quite sure it was mostly my military experience. (I was a D1 athlete as well, which might have helped, but most of the Deans that I talked to noted my military service specifically.)

I'm not saying I got into amazing schools (or can afford to go to the best ones I did) but it absolutely helped. I know this sounds stereotypical, but the schools in the South valued my service a lot more, to the tune of admission when I was a bunch outside their medians and even scholarship when I was close.

Feel free to PM me for any details and good luck!


Thanks for your input. I'm trying to get into SMU. That's my top pick although I haven't taken the LSAT yet. I'm taking it in February (not applying until next cycle). SMU is in the south so hopefully I'll get a better chance because of that. My LSAT may be high enough that the military soft wont even matter but we'll see. I'm currently in the mid 150's and I need to score in the mid 160's.

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dingbat
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Re: Military Soft

Postby dingbat » Wed Dec 05, 2012 10:37 pm

Military is the big question mark. Some schools don't care, others like it so much you could have numbers that Cooley would reject and still get in.

There's someone with a low 15x and a 2.x at my T30

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Ramius
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Re: Military Soft

Postby Ramius » Wed Dec 05, 2012 10:39 pm

My cycle is still in the midst of the most bizarre cycle in recent memory, but I can tell you that veteran status is most assuredly helping me outperform my numbers to this point. Most applications are still under review, and thus not representing how much it might help, but up until this point, it's been nothing but clear blue skies.

3.43/168 for your reference
into one T14 along with other T30 schools

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TheJanitor6203
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Re: Military Soft

Postby TheJanitor6203 » Wed Dec 05, 2012 10:49 pm

dingbat wrote:Military is the big question mark. Some schools don't care, others like it so much you could have numbers that Cooley would reject and still get in.

There's someone with a low 15x and a 2.x at my T30


matthewsean85 wrote:My cycle is still in the midst of the most bizarre cycle in recent memory, but I can tell you that veteran status is most assuredly helping me outperform my numbers to this point. Most applications are still under review, and thus not representing how much it might help, but up until this point, it's been nothing but clear blue skies.

3.43/168 for your reference
into one T14 along with other T30 schools


Would you care to share (or PM) what school's y'all are talking about?

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dingbat
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Re: Military Soft

Postby dingbat » Wed Dec 05, 2012 10:54 pm

Just check which schools accept yellow ribbon, or whatever the GI bill is called these days in the regions you'd want to attend and apply to 10 of them (or the top 15 if you don't care where). But it really is unpredictable how much they care

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gobuffs10
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Re: Military Soft

Postby gobuffs10 » Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:08 pm

If it helps at all, I'm not sure there's much to the idea that a school's perceived ideology means anything to your app. E.g. Madison is considered a pretty liberal place, and there are a number of vets in my 1L class.

jgconte
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Re: Military Soft

Postby jgconte » Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:30 pm

OP I am an Infantry Officer and, if you want, I can send you my resume/ps. I can also look at both of yours and give you my opinion, if you would like. I am applying this cycle as well, hoping to "outperform my numbers" 3.72/165.

As for resume advice, I find that its best to just show what you have done military-wise and not to worry about framing it around law school. What does leading a platoon in Afghanistan have to do with Law School, for example? Nothing. But it shows leadership, it shows you are mature and responsible and can work long hours under stressful conditions. It shows you are capable of working with people, and getting through tough situations. Its not something that 99% of undergraduate students have not done, and, therefore, somewhat of a diversity statement. As a Staff Sergeant you have a plethora of leadership abilities and experiences that will give you a boost, but you can't let the ADCOMs guess. Look at some of your NCOER's (if you're Army) and use them to guide you.
Last edited by jgconte on Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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TheJanitor6203
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Re: Military Soft

Postby TheJanitor6203 » Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:38 pm

jgconte wrote:OP I am an Infantry Officer and, if you want, I can send you my resume/ps. I can also look at both of yours and give you my opinion if you would like. I am applying this cycle as well, hoping to "outperform my numbers" 3.72/165.


Well, your numbers are impressive on their own. Wish my GPA was that high! I haven't done a resume yet but I'd love to see yours! I haven't done a resume yet party because I just don't know how to translate my military experience into a resume so seeing yours would be great. I can send you my PS though.

jgconte
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Re: Military Soft

Postby jgconte » Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:42 pm

TheJanitor6203 wrote:
jgconte wrote:OP I am an Infantry Officer and, if you want, I can send you my resume/ps. I can also look at both of yours and give you my opinion if you would like. I am applying this cycle as well, hoping to "outperform my numbers" 3.72/165.


Well, your numbers are impressive on their own. Wish my GPA was that high! I haven't done a resume yet but I'd love to see yours! I haven't done a resume yet party because I just don't know how to translate my military experience into a resume so seeing yours would be great. I can send you my PS though.


Sure i'll send it, its better if I email it to you. Whats your address?

Lear22
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Re: Military Soft

Postby Lear22 » Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:38 pm

jumping on the thread. What do you think (if any) bump I will get for serving in a foreign army? I served in the IDF for almost 4 years (meaning almost an extra year than the mandatory 3 years) in a classified combat unit as a NCO. I was able to incorporate it very well in my resume but I am wondering about admissions in general. I don't think it's looked at as US soldiers (nor it should IMHO) but I would still hope admoms will be happy to see someone in a leadership role in a very young age and what I'v done there.

P.S: I understand some adcoms will dislike me because I served in the IDF. but it's def not something that I will ever play down, for school or anything else.

EDIT: I'm a US citizen so not applying as an intl. student

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Bfalcon
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Re: Military Soft

Postby Bfalcon » Sun Dec 09, 2012 7:39 pm

Lear22 wrote:jumping on the thread. What do you think (if any) bump I will get for serving in a foreign army? I served in the IDF for almost 4 years (meaning almost an extra year than the mandatory 3 years) in a classified combat unit as a NCO. I was able to incorporate it very well in my resume but I am wondering about admissions in general. I don't think it's looked at as US soldiers (nor it should IMHO) but I would still hope admoms will be happy to see someone in a leadership role in a very young age and what I'v done there.

P.S: I understand some adcoms will dislike me because I served in the IDF. but it's def not something that I will ever play down, for school or anything else.

EDIT: I'm a US citizen so not applying as an intl. student


The way I see it, mate, is this: adcoms are looking for people who make good lawyers. They aren't going to admit someone to their law school just because they want to honour someone who has done something noble to their country. Although there is a slight patriotic push in the acceptance of military veterans to law schools, there is much more to the admissions factor. I feel that the real reason why military service is such a great soft (and a great soft in applying to any job for that matter) is due to the personal development and transferable skills which one learns over the course of military service. Serving in the military, especially in a classified combat unit, gives you an incredible life experience which 95% of students who went to high school, did undergrad, and then applied to law school, cannot even come close to. You've seen aspects of life and the real world which you can take into a PS or into a job as a lawyer. This makes you a (potentially) very valuable asset. You should have superior team skills, leadership skills, stress management skills, time management skills, and discipline. These are assets which are near priceless. Though you haven't served as a US soldier, you have served as a professional soldier in a very highly-regarded military. Though the adcoms might disagree with Israeli foreign policy, a good recruiter (which I can speak to, having worked at a top recruiting firm) will ignore those differences and focus on the traits that are unique to the individual.

I have friends in the IDF, some who've served in special duties roles and units, and I have a lot of respect for them and their comrades. As a soldier, I have respect for anyone who follows the warrior code. That code crosses all boundaries, both political and cultural.

Good luck with law school mate.

Lear22
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Re: Military Soft

Postby Lear22 » Sun Dec 09, 2012 7:53 pm

Bfalcon wrote:
Lear22 wrote:jumping on the thread. What do you think (if any) bump I will get for serving in a foreign army? I served in the IDF for almost 4 years (meaning almost an extra year than the mandatory 3 years) in a classified combat unit as a NCO. I was able to incorporate it very well in my resume but I am wondering about admissions in general. I don't think it's looked at as US soldiers (nor it should IMHO) but I would still hope admoms will be happy to see someone in a leadership role in a very young age and what I'v done there.

P.S: I understand some adcoms will dislike me because I served in the IDF. but it's def not something that I will ever play down, for school or anything else.

EDIT: I'm a US citizen so not applying as an intl. student


The way I see it, mate, is this: adcoms are looking for people who make good lawyers. They aren't going to admit someone to their law school just because they want to honour someone who has done something noble to their country. Although there is a slight patriotic push in the acceptance of military veterans to law schools, there is much more to the admissions factor. I feel that the real reason why military service is such a great soft (and a great soft in applying to any job for that matter) is due to the personal development and transferable skills which one learns over the course of military service. Serving in the military, especially in a classified combat unit, gives you an incredible life experience which 95% of students who went to high school, did undergrad, and then applied to law school, cannot even come close to. You've seen aspects of life and the real world which you can take into a PS or into a job as a lawyer. This makes you a (potentially) very valuable asset. You should have superior team skills, leadership skills, stress management skills, time management skills, and discipline. These are assets which are near priceless. Though you haven't served as a US soldier, you have served as a professional soldier in a very highly-regarded military. Though the adcoms might disagree with Israeli foreign policy, a good recruiter (which I can speak to, having worked at a top recruiting firm) will ignore those differences and focus on the traits that are unique to the individual.

I have friends in the IDF, some who've served in special duties roles and units, and I have a lot of respect for them and their comrades. As a soldier, I have respect for anyone who follows the warrior code. That code crosses all boundaries, both political and cultural.

Good luck with law school mate.


Thanks for your post. I really appreciate it.

I was wondering if to write about my setivce in my PS or diversity statement but in some regards I think it will be 'wasted space' in the PS (perhaps not in the diversity statement though) since as you said, adcomms will know or value the traits you listed (hopefully) just from reading about the details of my service in my résumé (I dedicated a good chuck to it).

What do you/others think about that?


Thanks again for your post.

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dingbat
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Re: Military Soft

Postby dingbat » Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:15 pm

Lear22 wrote:Thanks for your post. I really appreciate it.

I was wondering if to write about my setivce in my PS or diversity statement but in some regards I think it will be 'wasted space' in the PS (perhaps not in the diversity statement though) since as you said, adcomms will know or value the traits you listed (hopefully) just from reading about the details of my service in my résumé (I dedicated a good chuck to it).

What do you/others think about that?


Thanks again for your post.

Touching on it in your PS is probably a good idea, but don't waste too much space on it. There is a chance some adcoms will be turned off by your israeli service, but you can't really avoid that, so just don't worry about it.
International diversity is also a soft, by the way, but a weak one, that's hard to predict.

Lear22
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Re: Military Soft

Postby Lear22 » Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:38 pm

dingbat wrote:
Lear22 wrote:Thanks for your post. I really appreciate it.

I was wondering if to write about my setivce in my PS or diversity statement but in some regards I think it will be 'wasted space' in the PS (perhaps not in the diversity statement though) since as you said, adcomms will know or value the traits you listed (hopefully) just from reading about the details of my service in my résumé (I dedicated a good chuck to it).

What do you/others think about that?


Thanks again for your post.

Touching on it in your PS is probably a good idea, but don't waste too much space on it. There is a chance some adcoms will be turned off by your israeli service, but you can't really avoid that, so just don't worry about it.
International diversity is also a soft, by the way, but a weak one, that's hard to predict.


Thanks. I don't think it'll go into my PS but I'll add a par on my diversity statement. As you said I want to give it some room but since my résumé goes into much detail about the role I did.

I honestly think that being an Israeli applying to a JD is real factor. There are hardly any Israelis applying to JDs (most go for an LLM) and I think it'll gives a unique edge.

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dingbat
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Re: Military Soft

Postby dingbat » Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:42 pm

Lear22[quote] wrote:I honestly think that being an Israeli applying to a JD is real factor. There are hardly any Israelis applying to JDs (most go for an LLM) and I think it'll gives a unique edge.

A unique edge, but not a big edge.

Lear22
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Re: Military Soft

Postby Lear22 » Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:46 pm

dingbat wrote:
Lear22[quote] wrote:I honestly think that being an Israeli applying to a JD is real factor. There are hardly any Israelis applying to JDs (most go for an LLM) and I think it'll gives a unique edge.

A unique edge, but not a big edge.


True, but it's still a diverse factor that 99.9 percent of applicants won't have

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dingbat
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Re: Military Soft

Postby dingbat » Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:54 pm

Lear22 wrote:
dingbat wrote:
Lear22[quote] wrote:I honestly think that being an Israeli applying to a JD is real factor. There are hardly any Israelis applying to JDs (most go for an LLM) and I think it'll gives a unique edge.

A unique edge, but not a big edge.


True, but it's still a diverse factor that 99.9 percent of applicants won't have

That and a metrocard will get you a ride on the subway.
Your diversity will definitely help, but don't expect to outperform your numbers in any significant way

Lear22
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Re: Military Soft

Postby Lear22 » Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:10 pm

dingbat wrote:
Lear22 wrote:
dingbat wrote:
Lear22[quote] wrote:I honestly think that being an Israeli applying to a JD is real factor. There are hardly any Israelis applying to JDs (most go for an LLM) and I think it'll gives a unique edge.

A unique edge, but not a big edge.


True, but it's still a diverse factor that 99.9 percent of applicants won't have

That and a metrocard will get you a ride on the subway.
Your diversity will definitely help, but don't expect to outperform your numbers in any significant way


I never said it will (as I wrote in my initial reply to this post). I do think however that it's a unique factor. I'm not trying to make more of it that what it is. That said, I think it has merit that most (i.e hardly any) one else will have.

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dingbat
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Re: Military Soft

Postby dingbat » Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:18 pm

Lear22 wrote:I never said it will (as I wrote in my initial reply to this post). I do think however that it's a unique factor. I'm not trying to make more of it that what it is. That said, I think it has merit that most (i.e hardly any) one else will have.

I agree. I'm just saying it won't make a big difference

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JayJones78
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Re: Military Soft

Postby JayJones78 » Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:20 pm

dingbat wrote:
Lear22 wrote:I never said it will (as I wrote in my initial reply to this post). I do think however that it's a unique factor. I'm not trying to make more of it that what it is. That said, I think it has merit that most (i.e hardly any) one else will have.

I agree. I'm just saying it won't make a big difference


In my case I need any edge I can get and I'm trying to outperform as much as I can




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