3.1/156 (estimated)/work experience/strong extra cirricular

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akb07003
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3.1/156 (estimated)/work experience/strong extra cirricular

Postby akb07003 » Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:24 pm

Hi everyone!

I'm new to this site, so any advice would be appreciated. I'm feeling quite discouraged. I didn't do very well academically in undergrad and my estimated LSAT score is so-so. I took the December exam, so I will just have to wait and see what it actually comes out as. I work at a pretty prestigious accounting firm, and my extracurricular activities and awards in undergrad were very, very strong. I know getting into law school pretty much ends being a numbers game, and because of that I feel like I can probably count out Top 30, but I'm hoping to still get into a pretty strong program, do well within the first year, and transfer if I can to a better school. I guess I'm really just hoping for anyone to weigh in on where they think my best chances are, on whether work experience helps at all, and thoughts about transferring.

Thank you!

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minnbills
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Re: 3.1/156 (estimated)/work experience/strong extra cirricular

Postby minnbills » Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:27 pm

The general advice is not to count on transferring. Chances are you won't get the grades.

You should retake the LSAT, in my opinion. You either want to get into a good school (the best school in the region in which you want to practice) or get a huge scholarship to a lower ranked school so you can minimize your risk.

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jrsbaseball5
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Re: 3.1/156 (estimated)/work experience/strong extra cirricular

Postby jrsbaseball5 » Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:30 pm

What are the strong softs that you have? Unless they are something incredible (think, writing a best selling novel) they aren't going to count for a whole lot.

akb07003
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Re: 3.1/156 (estimated)/work experience/strong extra cirricular

Postby akb07003 » Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:34 pm

jrsbaseball5 wrote:What are the strong softs that you have? Unless they are something incredible (think, writing a best selling novel) they aren't going to count for a whole lot.


I was the commencement speaker for my university, I won a really competitive national grant to fund a huge community service program, i placed top 5 in a national accounting competition, and i placed top 4 nationally in a legal-related competition. i was also either president or vice president for about 3 organizations on campus, and actively participated in over 5.

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WhiteyCakes
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Re: 3.1/156 (estimated)/work experience/strong extra cirricular

Postby WhiteyCakes » Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:37 pm

akb07003 wrote:
jrsbaseball5 wrote:What are the strong softs that you have? Unless they are something incredible (think, writing a best selling novel) they aren't going to count for a whole lot.


I was the commencement speaker for my university, I won a really competitive national grant to fund a huge community service program, i placed top 5 in a national accounting competition, and i placed top 4 nationally in a legal-related competition. i was also either president or vice president for about 3 organizations on campus, and actively participated in over 5.


It is a shame that nobody will really get to see that with your numbers

akb07003
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Re: 3.1/156 (estimated)/work experience/strong extra cirricular

Postby akb07003 » Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:37 pm

minnbills wrote:The general advice is not to count on transferring. Chances are you won't get the grades.

You should retake the LSAT, in my opinion. You either want to get into a good school (the best school in the region in which you want to practice) or get a huge scholarship to a lower ranked school so you can minimize your risk.


Do you think it's possible for me to take the Feb LSAT and have it count? I know it's kind of late for most applications, but what if I applied with my pending December score, and once I get my Feb score (which hopefully would be better), and send the updates to the schools I'm applying to? Or is that just a generally weird thing to do?

akb07003
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Re: 3.1/156 (estimated)/work experience/strong extra cirricular

Postby akb07003 » Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:39 pm

WhiteyCakes wrote:
akb07003 wrote:
jrsbaseball5 wrote:What are the strong softs that you have? Unless they are something incredible (think, writing a best selling novel) they aren't going to count for a whole lot.


I was the commencement speaker for my university, I won a really competitive national grant to fund a huge community service program, i placed top 5 in a national accounting competition, and i placed top 4 nationally in a legal-related competition. i was also either president or vice president for about 3 organizations on campus, and actively participated in over 5.


It is a shame that nobody will really get to see that with your numbers


Well, is there anything I can really do to make them see that? I had an interview with Northwestern, and even though my chances there were slim, I at least made sure they had a chance to see what else I had to offer.

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WhiteyCakes
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Re: 3.1/156 (estimated)/work experience/strong extra cirricular

Postby WhiteyCakes » Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:39 pm

akb07003 wrote:
minnbills wrote:The general advice is not to count on transferring. Chances are you won't get the grades.

You should retake the LSAT, in my opinion. You either want to get into a good school (the best school in the region in which you want to practice) or get a huge scholarship to a lower ranked school so you can minimize your risk.


Do you think it's possible for me to take the Feb LSAT and have it count? I know it's kind of late for most applications, but what if I applied with my pending December score, and once I get my Feb score (which hopefully would be better), and send the updates to the schools I'm applying to? Or is that just a generally weird thing to do?


At that point you might as well wait a cycle and get some WE

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paratactical
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Re: 3.1/156 (estimated)/work experience/strong extra cirricular

Postby paratactical » Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:40 pm

The best possible thing you could do would be wait another year to apply and study your ass off for June.

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jrsbaseball5
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Re: 3.1/156 (estimated)/work experience/strong extra cirricular

Postby jrsbaseball5 » Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:45 pm

paratactical wrote:The best possible thing you could do would be wait another year to apply and study your ass off for June.


This is my advice as well. You sound like you have some good softs so studying hard for the LSAT and achieving a higher score would make you much much more competitive. I would not count on going to a school that you don't want to attend with the hopes of transferring out. Though it sounds good in theory, your chances are just too slim to count on it. If you can do well on the June LSAT you will have a better chance at some $$ from a strong regional school.

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IAFG
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Re: 3.1/156 (estimated)/work experience/strong extra cirricular

Postby IAFG » Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:52 pm

Maybe, shouldn't go to law school. What are you doing to pay the bills right now?

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hume85
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Re: 3.1/156 (estimated)/work experience/strong extra cirricular

Postby hume85 » Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:01 pm

IAFG wrote:Maybe, shouldn't go to law school. What are you doing to pay the bills right now?


I think IAFG and paratactical are giving good advice. Study your ass off for June and gun for a 170+. If you can't dramatically improve your LSAT then you shouldn't go to law school with that GPA, unless it is one of those strong, cheap regionals were you have strong ties.

akb07003
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Re: 3.1/156 (estimated)/work experience/strong extra cirricular

Postby akb07003 » Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:24 pm

IAFG wrote:Maybe, shouldn't go to law school. What are you doing to pay the bills right now?


I work at one of the Big 4 Accounting firms. Great, competitive job, just not what I'm looking for. I've always, since I can remember, wanted to go to law school. I took a little detour when I studied Accounting in undergrad because my family really, really wanted me to pursue something where I would be sure I could have a job. But after working for about 2 years, I've realized that I'd rather be doing something I love than just going through the motions for a job that pays well.

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paratactical
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Re: 3.1/156 (estimated)/work experience/strong extra cirricular

Postby paratactical » Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:26 pm

akb07003 wrote:
IAFG wrote:Maybe, shouldn't go to law school. What are you doing to pay the bills right now?


I work at one of the Big 4 Accounting firms. Great, competitive job, just not what I'm looking for. I've always, since I can remember, wanted to go to law school. I took a little detour when I studied Accounting in undergrad because my family really, really wanted me to pursue something where I would be sure I could have a job. But after working for about 2 years, I've realized that I'd rather be doing something I love than just going through the motions for a job that pays well.

What makes you think you'll love law?

akb07003
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Re: 3.1/156 (estimated)/work experience/strong extra cirricular

Postby akb07003 » Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:31 pm

paratactical wrote:
akb07003 wrote:
IAFG wrote:Maybe, shouldn't go to law school. What are you doing to pay the bills right now?


I work at one of the Big 4 Accounting firms. Great, competitive job, just not what I'm looking for. I've always, since I can remember, wanted to go to law school. I took a little detour when I studied Accounting in undergrad because my family really, really wanted me to pursue something where I would be sure I could have a job. But after working for about 2 years, I've realized that I'd rather be doing something I love than just going through the motions for a job that pays well.

What makes you think you'll love law?


I was also a poli sci major in college along with my accounting major, and even though I know that studying poli sci at an undergrad level isn't merely enough to compare to how intense it is at law school, I've always felt like I had a weird connection with the history of law and the ways it has the potential to change the lives of so many people. I didn't grow up in this country, and coming from a country whose political system is very, very corrupt, I was so awed when I came here and saw that people could actually pursue their dreams and in most cases, really get what they wanted, and since the law is really the one basic thing that unites us all together, I really want to learn about it in more depth and help people keep doing what they love with the help of the law on their side. I hope to study corporate law and focus in on small businesses and bankruptcy. I feel like that's the best way to help people (that's arguable).

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paratactical
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Re: 3.1/156 (estimated)/work experience/strong extra cirricular

Postby paratactical » Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:35 pm

akb07003 wrote:I was also a poli sci major in college along with my accounting major, and even though I know that studying poli sci at an undergrad level isn't merely enough to compare to how intense it is at law school, I've always felt like I had a weird connection with the history of law and the ways it has the potential to change the lives of so many people. I didn't grow up in this country, and coming from a country whose political system is very, very corrupt, I was so awed when I came here and saw that people could actually pursue their dreams and in most cases, really get what they wanted, and since the law is really the one basic thing that unites us all together, I really want to learn about it in more depth and help people keep doing what they love with the help of the law on their side. I hope to study corporate law and focus in on small businesses and bankruptcy. I feel like that's the best way to help people (that's arguable).


So you're not looking to do biglaw (or if you think you are, I would say that you should really reconsider because it will not achieve what seems to be your goals). Have you done any research about what jobs working with small businesses pays and how abundant they are? Is there a part of the country you are committed to living in?

akb07003
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Re: 3.1/156 (estimated)/work experience/strong extra cirricular

Postby akb07003 » Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:39 pm

paratactical wrote:
akb07003 wrote:I was also a poli sci major in college along with my accounting major, and even though I know that studying poli sci at an undergrad level isn't merely enough to compare to how intense it is at law school, I've always felt like I had a weird connection with the history of law and the ways it has the potential to change the lives of so many people. I didn't grow up in this country, and coming from a country whose political system is very, very corrupt, I was so awed when I came here and saw that people could actually pursue their dreams and in most cases, really get what they wanted, and since the law is really the one basic thing that unites us all together, I really want to learn about it in more depth and help people keep doing what they love with the help of the law on their side. I hope to study corporate law and focus in on small businesses and bankruptcy. I feel like that's the best way to help people (that's arguable).


So you're not looking to do biglaw (or if you think you are, I would say that you should really reconsider because it will not achieve what seems to be your goals). Have you done any research about what jobs working with small businesses pays and how abundant they are? Is there a part of the country you are committed to living in?


I actually am looking to do biglaw in the beginning. I feel like (similar to how public accounting works), it's the best way to gain as much exposure as possible. After doing that, I'm hoping to gain a concentration in bankruptcy and do my pro bono work in small business clients facing bankruptcy. After that, I'm really hoping to get into small business policy in DC. I don't care where I live, to be honest, but I'm hopeful that it will be in a big city.

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paratactical
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Re: 3.1/156 (estimated)/work experience/strong extra cirricular

Postby paratactical » Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:55 pm

akb07003 wrote:I actually am looking to do biglaw in the beginning. I feel like (similar to how public accounting works), it's the best way to gain as much exposure as possible. After doing that, I'm hoping to gain a concentration in bankruptcy and do my pro bono work in small business clients facing bankruptcy. After that, I'm really hoping to get into small business policy in DC. I don't care where I live, to be honest, but I'm hopeful that it will be in a big city.

Wouldn't it make more sense to continue on in accounting and use your skills in your spare time to assist businesses with getting their books back on track? Why take multiple years of no income and a large amount of debt to end up in biglaw, which isn't that different from bigaccounting?

akb07003
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Re: 3.1/156 (estimated)/work experience/strong extra cirricular

Postby akb07003 » Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:59 pm

paratactical wrote:
akb07003 wrote:I actually am looking to do biglaw in the beginning. I feel like (similar to how public accounting works), it's the best way to gain as much exposure as possible. After doing that, I'm hoping to gain a concentration in bankruptcy and do my pro bono work in small business clients facing bankruptcy. After that, I'm really hoping to get into small business policy in DC. I don't care where I live, to be honest, but I'm hopeful that it will be in a big city.

Wouldn't it make more sense to continue on in accounting and use your skills in your spare time to assist businesses with getting their books back on track? Why take multiple years of no income and a large amount of debt to end up in biglaw, which isn't that different from bigaccounting?


I thought about that, but I'm not interested in just doing accounting. I want to bankruptcy law, but i think my background in accounting could definitely help, but i don't want that to be my focus

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Re: 3.1/156 (estimated)/work experience/strong extra cirricular

Postby DougieFresh » Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:03 pm

If law is your dream, make sure you do it right to avoid the pitfalls of a precarious legal economy. Retake the LSAT and wait out this cycle, get your scores up to where you can get good scholarship money at a strong regional school, or get you into a top school, and relax because its possible the drop in applications is just as pronounced next year.

Let me direct you to our friendly June 2013 retake thread.

Also join in the June 2013 study thread.

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paratactical
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Re: 3.1/156 (estimated)/work experience/strong extra cirricular

Postby paratactical » Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:03 pm

I'm only asking because I question how accurate your view of what lawyers do are and I'm just trying to give you some things to think about. But if you do want biglaw, and you are set on law school, the absolutely credited response is to wait another year and retake the LSAT.

akb07003
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Re: 3.1/156 (estimated)/work experience/strong extra cirricular

Postby akb07003 » Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:58 pm

Thank you everyone for all of your help and advice! If you guys have any more to offer, please feel free to add to this thread. As of right now, I will simply wait for my score and see how to proceed from there.

timbs4339
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Re: 3.1/156 (estimated)/work experience/strong extra cirricular

Postby timbs4339 » Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:23 pm

If biglaw is your goal, a retake and significant score increase is highly recommended. Most of your options right now will have sub 10% biglaw placement, and your experience may only help on the margins (like you can get top 15% grades not top 10%).

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romothesavior
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Re: 3.1/156 (estimated)/work experience/strong extra cirricular

Postby romothesavior » Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:04 pm

You have a great job that pays the bills at a reputable company. DO NOT LEAVE THIS FOR A SHITTY SCHOOL! Sorry for yelling, but it is so, SO important that you get this. A 3.1/156 is bad across the board, and no school worth attending is going to admit you with those numbers, no matter what your softs are. The bottom line is this: Your current job and financial situation is leagues better than most graduating law students right now, especially those graduating from schools that take 3.1/156 stats. I have friends at my T20 who would chop off a leg to work at a Big 4 accounting firm right now, and you get to do it without having wasted three years and six-figures on a law degree. You're in great shape right now.

If you really want to be a lawyer, and really understand what you're trading for and what you want out of a law degree, then you need to take another year, keep working your current job, studying your face off for the LSAT, and then retake. With a 3.1 GPA, you'd likely need a ~170 to make this even arguably worth it. Your odds of a biglaw job at a school that accepts 3.1/156s are terrible.

It sounds like you are an ambitious, intelligent, hard-working person. You've got a great job. But your law school stats suck, and no amount of student organizations or commencement speeches can make up for that. Personally, I would never tell someone to leave a great job for law school, but if you are committed to doing it, then you need to do it right. Quitting your job to go to law school next fall would likely be the biggest career and financial mistake of your life. Put yourself in a position to succeed. Wait and retake.

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hume85
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Re: 3.1/156 (estimated)/work experience/strong extra cirricular

Postby hume85 » Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:08 pm

romothesavior wrote:You have a great job that pays the bills at a reputable company. DO NOT LEAVE THIS FOR A SHITTY SCHOOL! Sorry for yelling, but it is so, SO important that you get this. A 3.1/156 is bad across the board, and no school worth attending is going to admit you with those numbers, no matter what your softs are. The bottom line is this: Your current job and financial situation is leagues better than most graduating law students right now, especially those graduating from schools that take 3.1/156 stats. I have friends at my T20 who would chop off a leg to work at a Big 4 accounting firm right now, and you get to do it without having wasted three years and six-figures on a law degree. You're in great shape right now.

If you really want to be a lawyer, and really understand what you're trading for and what you want out of a law degree, then you need to take another year, keep working your current job, studying your face off for the LSAT, and then retake. With a 3.1 GPA, you'd likely need a ~170 to make this even arguably worth it. Your odds of a biglaw job at a school that accepts 3.1/156s are terrible.

It sounds like you are an ambitious, intelligent, hard-working person. You've got a great job. But your law school stats suck, and no amount of student organizations or commencement speeches can make up for that. Personally, I would never tell someone to leave a great job for law school, but if you are committed to doing it, then you need to do it right. Quitting your job to go to law school next fall would likely be the biggest career and financial mistake of your life. Put yourself in a position to succeed. Wait and retake.


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