Big Splitter, potentially minor URM boost?

Not sure where your numbers will get you? Dying to know where you stand? Come have your palms read by your fellow posters!
User avatar
2012Split177
Posts: 75
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:46 am

Big Splitter, potentially minor URM boost?

Postby 2012Split177 » Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:18 pm

Got a smack-on-the-median (for my UG school) 3.3 from a top-50 undergrad, but 177 on my one-and-only LSAT this past October. Three years significant work experience.

Suppose my main curiosity is whether my racial background will make any difference, both with admissions and with money: I'm a first-generation American to a Spanish dad and a Colombian mom. So, for some schools I marked "Hispanic/Latino & White: European and South American" - some just ask if you're "Hispanic/Latino" without caring from where, but for honesty's sake I had mark both that and "White" under race. Did write a diversity statement for all schools.

Submitted to about half the T14 plus UCLA, WM, and W&L in mid-November. Just getting curious. What will they think of a splitter like me? Could my work experience/years out of UG make some schools pay less attention to the 3.3 and focus on the 2012 177?

User avatar
Tiago Splitter
Posts: 15464
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:20 am

Re: Big Splitter, potentially minor URM boost?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:25 pm

You should apply everywhere below HYS.

User avatar
Doorkeeper
Posts: 4872
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:25 pm

Re: Big Splitter, potentially minor URM boost?

Postby Doorkeeper » Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:45 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:You should apply everywhere below HYS.

If the OP truly does count as a URM, myLSN shows 1-2 H and S admits with his numbers. I would apply everywhere in the T14.

If OP is a URM, then he/she is in at NYU and has a shot at somewhere at the T5.

User avatar
2012Split177
Posts: 75
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:46 am

Re: Big Splitter, potentially minor URM boost?

Postby 2012Split177 » Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:54 pm

Doorkeeper wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:You should apply everywhere below HYS.

If the OP truly does count as a URM, myLSN shows 1-2 H and S admits with his numbers. I would apply everywhere in the T14.

If OP is a URM, then he/she is in at NYU and has a shot at somewhere at the T5.


Thanks - I did Harvard just in case, then NYU/Columbia, MVP, Georgetown, Vandy, UCLA, WL, and WM. Pretty East-Coast-centric I know. I would love love love Virginia (where I'd be in-state), or Michigan.

Amazingly, unlike most folks here on TLS and most other applicants to law school for that matter, I don't have $200,000 just lying around and was hoping to get even a bit of money. I know plenty of debt is in my future but the less the better, and I'm wondering if I should hope for anything in that department from a T14.

User avatar
Doorkeeper
Posts: 4872
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:25 pm

Re: Big Splitter, potentially minor URM boost?

Postby Doorkeeper » Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:55 pm

I would throw an app to UChicago if you're already applying to Michigan.

Also Duke and Northwestern. They might throw some $$ your way.

User avatar
2012Split177
Posts: 75
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:46 am

Re: Big Splitter, potentially minor URM boost?

Postby 2012Split177 » Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:00 pm

Doorkeeper wrote:I would throw an app to UChicago if you're already applying to Michigan.

Also Duke and Northwestern. They might throw some $$ your way.


Oh yeah - almost forgot. Did Priority Track at Duke. I actually love the Triangle area of North Carolina (wicked craft beer scene) - curious to learn more about Duke's reputation, both in terms of how students like it and how they do in employment.

User avatar
2012Split177
Posts: 75
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:46 am

Re: Big Splitter, potentially minor URM boost?

Postby 2012Split177 » Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:04 pm

Awesome avatar, btw, Doorkeeper. I was just wondering why I'm sitting here on TLS on a Sunday night instead of finishing up Storm of Swords. I'm at the best part even!

User avatar
Doorkeeper
Posts: 4872
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:25 pm

Re: Big Splitter, potentially minor URM boost?

Postby Doorkeeper » Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:17 pm

2012Split177 wrote:
Doorkeeper wrote:I would throw an app to UChicago if you're already applying to Michigan.

Also Duke and Northwestern. They might throw some $$ your way.


Oh yeah - almost forgot. Did Priority Track at Duke. I actually love the Triangle area of North Carolina (wicked craft beer scene) - curious to learn more about Duke's reputation, both in terms of how students like it and how they do in employment.

Northwestern is very kind with scholarships to splitters. I would apply there too if you can deal with 3 years in Chicago.

User avatar
John_rizzy_rawls
Posts: 3477
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:44 pm

Re: Big Splitter, potentially minor URM boost?

Postby John_rizzy_rawls » Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:30 am

2012Split177 wrote:Got a smack-on-the-median (for my UG school) 3.3 from a top-50 undergrad, but 177 on my one-and-only LSAT this past October. Three years significant work experience.

Suppose my main curiosity is whether my racial background will make any difference, both with admissions and with money: I'm a first-generation American to a Spanish dad and a Colombian mom. So, for some schools I marked "Hispanic/Latino & White: European and South American" - some just ask if you're "Hispanic/Latino" without caring from where, but for honesty's sake I had mark both that and "White" under race. Did write a diversity statement for all schools.

Submitted to about half the T14 plus UCLA, WM, and W&L in mid-November. Just getting curious. What will they think of a splitter like me? Could my work experience/years out of UG make some schools pay less attention to the 3.3 and focus on the 2012 177?


On the URM stuff: you won't be getting a boost for it. The only URMs are Puerto Ricans, Mexican Americans, Native Americans, and African Americans (Grutter v. Bollinger, check out this thread for more - viewtopic.php?f=14&t=35568) So long story short: you won't be getting dat boost. Also, good on ya for putting all ethnicities/races honestly, the C&F portion of the bar checks all that stuff against your law schools apps.

However, if you feel like your heritage has given you a sense of diversity, disenfranchisement, or hardship, or really any unique experience you can bring to the school, you can write a diversity statement. They're a nice little extra if you really have an experience to share or something to say.

Regardless, a 3.3/177 will get you a few T-6s, probably all of the non-yield protecting 7-14s, and anything below that. HYS you're almost surely out because they have hard GPA floors for all non-URMs but Harvard has a big enough incoming class and apps are down, so it's good that you shot your app at them for the hail mary.

Nice job on the LSAT btw.

User avatar
2012Split177
Posts: 75
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:46 am

Re: Big Splitter, potentially minor URM boost?

Postby 2012Split177 » Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:19 am

John_rizzy_rawls wrote:On the URM stuff: you won't be getting a boost for it. The only URMs are Puerto Ricans, Mexican Americans, Native Americans, and African Americans (Grutter v. Bollinger, check out this thread for more - viewtopic.php?f=14&t=35568) So long story short: you won't be getting dat boost. Also, good on ya for putting all ethnicities/races honestly, the C&F portion of the bar checks all that stuff against your law schools apps.

However, if you feel like your heritage has given you a sense of diversity, disenfranchisement, or hardship, or really any unique experience you can bring to the school, you can write a diversity statement. They're a nice little extra if you really have an experience to share or something to say.

Regardless, a 3.3/177 will get you a few T-6s, probably all of the non-yield protecting 7-14s, and anything below that. HYS you're almost surely out because they have hard GPA floors for all non-URMs but Harvard has a big enough incoming class and apps are down, so it's good that you shot your app at them for the hail mary.

Nice job on the LSAT btw.


Thanks - that gives me a good idea. I wondered whether any T14 would legitimately YP a guy with a 3.3. I figured I was below the floor for HYS but maybe right around it for CCN.

Regarding URM - that all makes a lot of sense (that Mexicans are underrepresented, South Americans are not), but I guess what's got me confused is that a lot of schools don't ask "what kind" of Latino you are. You just check the box saying "Hispanic/Latino" and leave it at that. They have no way of telling whether you're the son/daughter of tomato-pickers from Michoacan or bankers from Madrid. And selecting "white" couldn't have much of an implication since almost all Puerto-Ricans are White.

Anyways - now I'm getting into a thread that belongs somewhere else. This really isn't a big deal. Excited to see how my applications come back, with hopefully some by Christmas, and based on the advice in this thread I'll be applying to Northwestern.

User avatar
willwash
Posts: 318
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2010 9:51 pm

Re: Big Splitter, potentially minor URM boost?

Postby willwash » Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:04 pm

John_rizzy_rawls wrote:
2012Split177 wrote:Got a smack-on-the-median (for my UG school) 3.3 from a top-50 undergrad, but 177 on my one-and-only LSAT this past October. Three years significant work experience.

Suppose my main curiosity is whether my racial background will make any difference, both with admissions and with money: I'm a first-generation American to a Spanish dad and a Colombian mom. So, for some schools I marked "Hispanic/Latino & White: European and South American" - some just ask if you're "Hispanic/Latino" without caring from where, but for honesty's sake I had mark both that and "White" under race. Did write a diversity statement for all schools.

Submitted to about half the T14 plus UCLA, WM, and W&L in mid-November. Just getting curious. What will they think of a splitter like me? Could my work experience/years out of UG make some schools pay less attention to the 3.3 and focus on the 2012 177?


On the URM stuff: you won't be getting a boost for it. The only URMs are Puerto Ricans, Mexican Americans, Native Americans, and African Americans (Grutter v. Bollinger, check out this thread for more - viewtopic.php?f=14&t=35568) So long story short: you won't be getting dat boost. Also, good on ya for putting all ethnicities/races honestly, the C&F portion of the bar checks all that stuff against your law schools apps.

However, if you feel like your heritage has given you a sense of diversity, disenfranchisement, or hardship, or really any unique experience you can bring to the school, you can write a diversity statement. They're a nice little extra if you really have an experience to share or something to say.

Regardless, a 3.3/177 will get you a few T-6s, probably all of the non-yield protecting 7-14s, and anything below that. HYS you're almost surely out because they have hard GPA floors for all non-URMs but Harvard has a big enough incoming class and apps are down, so it's good that you shot your app at them for the hail mary.

Nice job on the LSAT btw.


Do you have data on that or is that just the consensus?

User avatar
Rahviveh
Posts: 2271
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:02 pm

Re: Big Splitter, potentially minor URM boost?

Postby Rahviveh » Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:00 pm

willwash wrote:
John_rizzy_rawls wrote:
2012Split177 wrote:Got a smack-on-the-median (for my UG school) 3.3 from a top-50 undergrad, but 177 on my one-and-only LSAT this past October. Three years significant work experience.

Suppose my main curiosity is whether my racial background will make any difference, both with admissions and with money: I'm a first-generation American to a Spanish dad and a Colombian mom. So, for some schools I marked "Hispanic/Latino & White: European and South American" - some just ask if you're "Hispanic/Latino" without caring from where, but for honesty's sake I had mark both that and "White" under race. Did write a diversity statement for all schools.

Submitted to about half the T14 plus UCLA, WM, and W&L in mid-November. Just getting curious. What will they think of a splitter like me? Could my work experience/years out of UG make some schools pay less attention to the 3.3 and focus on the 2012 177?


On the URM stuff: you won't be getting a boost for it. The only URMs are Puerto Ricans, Mexican Americans, Native Americans, and African Americans (Grutter v. Bollinger, check out this thread for more - viewtopic.php?f=14&t=35568) So long story short: you won't be getting dat boost. Also, good on ya for putting all ethnicities/races honestly, the C&F portion of the bar checks all that stuff against your law schools apps.

However, if you feel like your heritage has given you a sense of diversity, disenfranchisement, or hardship, or really any unique experience you can bring to the school, you can write a diversity statement. They're a nice little extra if you really have an experience to share or something to say.

Regardless, a 3.3/177 will get you a few T-6s, probably all of the non-yield protecting 7-14s, and anything below that. HYS you're almost surely out because they have hard GPA floors for all non-URMs but Harvard has a big enough incoming class and apps are down, so it's good that you shot your app at them for the hail mary.

Nice job on the LSAT btw.


Do you have data on that or is that just the consensus?


Check LSN

User avatar
somewhatwayward
Posts: 1446
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:10 pm

Re: Big Splitter, potentially minor URM boost?

Postby somewhatwayward » Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:31 am

2012Split177 wrote:Thanks - that gives me a good idea. I wondered whether any T14 would legitimately YP a guy with a 3.3. I figured I was below the floor for HYS but maybe right around it for CCN.

Regarding URM - that all makes a lot of sense (that Mexicans are underrepresented, South Americans are not), but I guess what's got me confused is that a lot of schools don't ask "what kind" of Latino you are. You just check the box saying "Hispanic/Latino" and leave it at that. They have no way of telling whether you're the son/daughter of tomato-pickers from Michoacan or bankers from Madrid. And selecting "white" couldn't have much of an implication since almost all Puerto-Ricans are White.

Anyways - now I'm getting into a thread that belongs somewhere else. This really isn't a big deal. Excited to see how my applications come back, with hopefully some by Christmas, and based on the advice in this thread I'll be applying to Northwestern.


The GPA floor for Columbia (and possibly UChi although I am not as familiar) has historically been a hard 3.5, unless URM, no matter how high the LSAT. NYU usually wants above a 3.5 but is willing to dip down for a very high LSAT like yours (may be only in ED admissions, though). HYS have historically had very high GPA floors, around 3.7, unless URM although they prefer URMs with lower LSATs and higher GPAs rather than traditional splitters.

When I say 'floor,' all I mean is that the school is willing to take someone with that GPA, not that it is likely that someone with that GPA will be admitted. There are very few non-URMs admitted to HYS with a 3.7. However, note that I am also using the term 'historically' - the decrease in applications, which is most noticeable among those with 170+ on the LSAT, means that schools may be getting softer on their traditional floors.

All that being said, I think you will have a good cycle, perhaps a little unpredictable. But you will have options, including $$ options, especially if schools do view you as a URM (if H views you as a URM, you are in). If you care about UVa, make sure you demonstrate it to them (did you write a Why UVa statement?) because otherwise they might go all YP on your face. Good luck!

User avatar
Bildungsroman
Posts: 5548
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2010 2:42 pm

Re: Big Splitter, potentially minor URM boost?

Postby Bildungsroman » Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:06 am

John_rizzy_rawls wrote:On the URM stuff: you won't be getting a boost for it. The only URMs are Puerto Ricans, Mexican Americans, Native Americans, and African Americans (Grutter v. Bollinger, check out this thread for more - viewtopic.php?f=14&t=35568) So long story short: you won't be getting dat boost.

Please find me language in Grutter v. Bollinger that even suggests that law schools (including private law schools) are restricted from giving an affirmative-action boost to any non-PR/non-Mexican hispanics.

User avatar
Tiago Splitter
Posts: 15464
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:20 am

Re: Big Splitter, potentially minor URM boost?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:15 am

somewhatwayward wrote:The GPA floor for Columbia (and possibly UChi although I am not as familiar) has historically been a hard 3.5, unless URM, no matter how high the LSAT. NYU usually wants above a 3.5 but is willing to dip down for a very high LSAT like yours (may be only in ED admissions, though).

Those floors have really come down at CLS/NYU over the last couple of years.




Return to “What are my chances?”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 2 guests