please stop abusing posters because you fail at math

Not sure where your numbers will get you? Dying to know where you stand? Come have your palms read by your fellow posters!
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alwayssunnyinfl
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Re: please stop abusing posters because you fail at math

Postby alwayssunnyinfl » Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:26 pm

nmop_apisdn wrote:
alwayssunnyinfl wrote:
nmop_apisdn wrote:What hasn't anyone brought up the issue about scholarshits yet?

OP, you realize that being above the LSAT median would give a school a damn good reason to throw some cash your way, right?

alwayssunnyinfl wrote:The reason most good posters suggest a retake is not only for increasing a chance at admission, but for drastically increasing chances at scholarship considerations.

tl;dr

I scrolled past your poasttt

Sorry. Lately, I've been criticized for being a non-substantive and superficial poster. Thought maybe I'd combat that image.

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dowu
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Re: please stop abusing posters because you fail at math

Postby dowu » Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:27 pm

shntn wrote:
nmop_apisdn wrote:GOD I AM RETARDED

I put "what hasn't anyone..."

lulz

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dowu
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Re: please stop abusing posters because you fail at math

Postby dowu » Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:27 pm

alwayssunnyinfl wrote:
nmop_apisdn wrote:
alwayssunnyinfl wrote:
nmop_apisdn wrote:What hasn't anyone brought up the issue about scholarshits yet?

OP, you realize that being above the LSAT median would give a school a damn good reason to throw some cash your way, right?

alwayssunnyinfl wrote:The reason most good posters suggest a retake is not only for increasing a chance at admission, but for drastically increasing chances at scholarship considerations.

tl;dr

I scrolled past your poasttt

Sorry. Lately, I've been criticized for being a non-substantive and superficial poster. Thought maybe I'd combat that image.

nah bro, I've always thought you are a substantive poster.

:shock:

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vanwinkle
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Re: please stop abusing posters because you fail at math

Postby vanwinkle » Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:49 pm

potobro wrote:I'm confident saying that most responses to X's post about her chance of admission would look something like this: "Retake. You aren't getting in with a 169. NYU can'twon't eat a score below the median without compelling reasons, which you don't have."

Fixed your OP so that you can understand it.

potobro wrote:But how good really is the prediction that with a 169, X will be denied admission? Very poor.

http://nyu.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats/1112/

2011-12: Only one applicant to NYU with a 169 LSAT and sub-3.9 GPA was accepted; they were URM. The rest were waitlisted/rejected.

2010-11: Only two applicants to NYU with a 169 LSAT and sub-3.9 GPA got accepted. One had a PhD. The other didn't report their race and got in to UChicago and WL'd at Harvard, so I'm guessing they were URM. The rest were waitlisted/rejected.

2009-10: Only two applicants to NYU with a 169 LSAT and sub-3.9 GPA got accepted. One applied binding Early Decision (and had a 3.88). The other got WL'd at HLS and CLS, so something in his app must have been ridiculously impressive (maybe his 3-4 years WE). The rest were waitlisted/rejected.

The prediction that someone with a 169 LSAT, absent extraordinary circumstances, won't get into NYU is actually pretty good based on the available evidence.

potobro wrote:So, to conclude, please stop saying because someone has an LSAT below the median that there is virtually no chance of admission...that's just incorrect.

Not every applicant with below-median LSAT has virtually no chance of admission. But your OP example was someone with a mere median GPA and no standouts otherwise. In that situation, it's not only correct but helpful to tell someone they have virtually no chance of admission, since they have virtually no chance of admission.

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JCFindley
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Re: please stop abusing posters because you fail at math

Postby JCFindley » Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:01 pm

Just curious, what do all of you base your information on that most people with below median LSATs have above median GPAs or are URMs?

Is this stated somewhere or simply an assumption?

Just curious.

Edit, I see some anecdotal LSN numbers but LSN is a rather incomplete sampling and also relies on self reporting. might low LSAT scorers under report just as it is assumed under employed grads do?
Last edited by JCFindley on Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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dowu
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Re: please stop abusing posters because you fail at math

Postby dowu » Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:03 pm

JCFindley wrote:Just curious, what do all of you base your information on that most people with below median LSATs have above median GPAs or are URMs?

Is this stated somewhere or simply an assumption?

Just curious.

I have no idea but I'd bet if you posted another picture of yourself, you'd scare the shit out of the OP.

You're fucking HUGE man.

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JCFindley
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Re: please stop abusing posters because you fail at math

Postby JCFindley » Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:05 pm

nmop_apisdn wrote:
JCFindley wrote:Just curious, what do all of you base your information on that most people with below median LSATs have above median GPAs or are URMs?

Is this stated somewhere or simply an assumption?

Just curious.

I have no idea but I'd bet if you posted another picture of yourself, you'd scare the shit out of the OP.

You're fucking HUGE man.


It was an old picture; I am old fat and bald with skinny arms now.

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dingbat
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Re: please stop abusing posters because you fail at math

Postby dingbat » Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:05 pm

nmop_apisdn wrote:
JCFindley wrote:Just curious, what do all of you base your information on that most people with below median LSATs have above median GPAs or are URMs?

Is this stated somewhere or simply an assumption?

Just curious.

I have no idea but I'd bet if you posted another picture of yourself, you'd scare the shit out of the OP.

You're fucking HUGE man.

not huge, just built like a brick shit house

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IAFG
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Re: please stop abusing posters because you fail at math

Postby IAFG » Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:36 pm

JCFindley wrote:Just curious, what do all of you base your information on that most people with below median LSATs have above median GPAs or are URMs?

Is this stated somewhere or simply an assumption?

Just curious.

Edit, I see some anecdotal LSN numbers but LSN is a rather incomplete sampling and also relies on self reporting. might low LSAT scorers under report just as it is assumed under employed grads do?

Why would low LSAT admits be more likely to avoid LSN than all the low LSAT dings? Just pointing out that LSN is "incomplete" and self-reported has always struck me as a weak argument. The data there maps on pretty well with the outcomes posters experience.

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dowu
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Re: please stop abusing posters because you fail at math

Postby dowu » Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:44 pm

JCFindley wrote:
nmop_apisdn wrote:
JCFindley wrote:Just curious, what do all of you base your information on that most people with below median LSATs have above median GPAs or are URMs?

Is this stated somewhere or simply an assumption?

Just curious.

I have no idea but I'd bet if you posted another picture of yourself, you'd scare the shit out of the OP.

You're fucking HUGE man.


It was an old picture; I am old fat and bald with skinny arms now.


Come at me bro

Swimp
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Re: please stop abusing posters because you fail at math

Postby Swimp » Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:54 pm

IAFG wrote:The data there maps on pretty well with the outcomes posters experience.


This is bordering on tautology.

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IAFG
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Re: please stop abusing posters because you fail at math

Postby IAFG » Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:04 pm

Swimp wrote:
IAFG wrote:The data there maps on pretty well with the outcomes posters experience.


This is bordering on tautology.

It's a reasonable criticism that LSN may not contain representative data, but if that is true, there should be a significant number of people who defied the data floating around somewhere. I suppose you're trying to say that TLS and LSN have significant overlap, but I don't get how it makes sense that both LSN and TLS are just failing to hear from the significant number of people who are successful below both medians.

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prezidentv8
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Re: please stop abusing posters because you fail at math

Postby prezidentv8 » Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:04 pm

Desert Fox wrote:People with below median scores almost always have above median GPA, or are a minority.

Your understanding of statistics and probabilities is sub-retarded. You should be ashamed of yourself. Learn the difference between independent and dependent variables, you ignorant slut.


reminded me of:

Principal in Billy Madison wrote:Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

Swimp
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Re: please stop abusing posters because you fail at math

Postby Swimp » Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:11 pm

IAFG wrote:
Swimp wrote:
IAFG wrote:The data there maps on pretty well with the outcomes posters experience.


This is bordering on tautology.

It's a reasonable criticism that LSN may not contain representative data, but if that is true, there should be a significant number of people who defied the data floating around somewhere. I suppose you're trying to say that TLS and LSN have significant overlap, but I don't get how it makes sense that both LSN and TLS are just failing to hear from the significant number of people who are successful below both medians.


Right. I actually think it's more plausible that things are a little tougher than LSN would have people believe. It just seems to me that unsuccessful applicants are going to be less likely to diligently fill out profiles. All I was really saying (as you inferred) is that TLS isn't exactly independent confirmation of trends on LSN.

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IAFG
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Re: please stop abusing posters because you fail at math

Postby IAFG » Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:16 pm

Swimp wrote:
IAFG wrote:
Swimp wrote:
IAFG wrote:The data there maps on pretty well with the outcomes posters experience.


This is bordering on tautology.

It's a reasonable criticism that LSN may not contain representative data, but if that is true, there should be a significant number of people who defied the data floating around somewhere. I suppose you're trying to say that TLS and LSN have significant overlap, but I don't get how it makes sense that both LSN and TLS are just failing to hear from the significant number of people who are successful below both medians.


Right. I actually think it's more plausible that things are a little tougher than LSN would have people believe. It just seems to me that unsuccessful applicants are going to be less likely to diligently fill out profiles. All I was really saying (as you inferred) is that TLS isn't exactly independent confirmation of trends on LSN.

I think "special snowflakes" are more likely to parachute in here and tell their story about how those meanypants calculators are unfairly crushing people's hopes than make a profile on LSN. But that's just my impression.

WhiskeynCoke
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Re: please stop abusing posters because you fail at math

Postby WhiskeynCoke » Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:10 pm

I'm not even a law student, or a JD, just someone who formerly considered being one a few years ago.


What happened? Poor LSAT score discourage you from applying? Your reasoning ability (lack thereof) certainly seems to suggest it.

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dingbat
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Re: please stop abusing posters because you fail at math

Postby dingbat » Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:21 pm

I especially like how OP assumes no one here knows any math.
There are enough people on this board who have serious numeracy skills (and credentials) and if such a pervasive mantra were wrong it would have been brought up long ago.

rad lulz
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Re: please stop abusing posters because you fail at math

Postby rad lulz » Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:29 pm

I thought this thread was gonna be about people giving overly rosy predictions. I was dead wrong.

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JCFindley
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Re: please stop abusing posters because you fail at math

Postby JCFindley » Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:37 pm

dingbat wrote:I especially like how OP assumes no one here knows any math.
There are enough people on this board who have serious numeracy skills (and credentials) and if such a pervasive mantra were wrong it would have been brought up long ago.



Actually, as a math major, I have wondered the same thing as the OP. I just don't have data to argue one way or the other. While LSN is reasonably representative of TLSers you see quite the drop off of data at lower ranked schools and we all know that Cooley certainly gets its share of students but there just aren’t that many on TSL. The same may or may not be true of lower LSAT scorers on LSN. I just don’t know.

So, as I understand it, the theory is that most people with an LSAT below median have a GPA above it and vice versa OR are URMs. That theory only really works mathematically if people with both numbers above median ~ URMs with both below or if ALL admits split the median.

I am not saying I agree or disagree with the TSL CW here because I don’t have the data to support a conclusion one way or the other but I do believe you have better than the “special snowflake” chance of being accepted being just slightly below both medians because there are probably more people above both that came for the $$$ than there are URMs with both below. But it is an unsupportable position.

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dingbat
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Re: please stop abusing posters because you fail at math

Postby dingbat » Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:32 pm

Actually, you shouldn't focus on median, but on 25%
Half of all admits are below median and it is illogical to suppose they're all splitters or URM

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IAFG
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Re: please stop abusing posters because you fail at math

Postby IAFG » Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:39 pm

dingbat wrote:Actually, you shouldn't focus on median, but on 25%
Half of all admits are below median and it is illogical to suppose they're all splitters or URM

Well obviously "all" is a hefty order, but it's perfectly logical to imagine almost all are either URM or at or above one median. I'm a little surprised to see this is still up for discussion.

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vanwinkle
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Re: please stop abusing posters because you fail at math

Postby vanwinkle » Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:47 pm

JCFindley wrote:So, as I understand it, the theory is that most people with an LSAT below median have a GPA above it and vice versa OR are URMs. That theory only really works mathematically if people with both numbers above median ~ URMs with both below or if ALL admits split the median.

Well, it's actually likely that all, or at least nearly all, admits split the median. NYU's medians are 171 and 3.78; how many applicants do you think have exactly both those numbers? But the bigger issue is that the LSAT band is much tighter than the GPA band; NYU has a 25th/75th of 3.57-3.85 GPA and 170-174 LSAT. You can have a broad range of GPAs and still get in, but if you're more than one point below median on the LSAT, you're already in the bottom quarter.

This raises what I think is the real issue: Which is harder to find among applicants, a high GPA or high LSAT? If there are fewer applicants with median-or-above LSAT scores than there are with median-or-above GPAs, then you're more rare and valuable if you have a high LSAT score.

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IAFG
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Re: please stop abusing posters because you fail at math

Postby IAFG » Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:52 pm

JCFindley wrote:
dingbat wrote:I especially like how OP assumes no one here knows any math.
There are enough people on this board who have serious numeracy skills (and credentials) and if such a pervasive mantra were wrong it would have been brought up long ago.



Actually, as a math major, I have wondered the same thing as the OP. I just don't have data to argue one way or the other. While LSN is reasonably representative of TLSers you see quite the drop off of data at lower ranked schools and we all know that Cooley certainly gets its share of students but there just aren’t that many on TSL. The same may or may not be true of lower LSAT scorers on LSN. I just don’t know.

So, as I understand it, the theory is that most people with an LSAT below median have a GPA above it and vice versa OR are URMs. That theory only really works mathematically if people with both numbers above median ~ URMs with both below or if ALL admits split the median.

I am not saying I agree or disagree with the TSL CW here because I don’t have the data to support a conclusion one way or the other but I do believe you have better than the “special snowflake” chance of being accepted being just slightly below both medians because there are probably more people above both that came for the $$$ than there are URMs with both below. But it is an unsupportable position.

I mean, LSN as a microcosm exemplifies exactly how this could be achieved, so I don't get the skepticism that it actually is this way.

florida1949
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Re: please stop abusing posters because you fail at math

Postby florida1949 » Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:37 pm

love this thread, good job TLS.




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