My chances for parttime law

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eng_law
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My chances for parttime law

Postby eng_law » Sat Oct 13, 2012 10:55 pm

Dear All,
Thank you for posting your thoughts and suggestions and helping each other in all stages i.e pre-law school, through law school & post law school.I am relatively new to this forum and trying to get into a law school for July'2013 .I posted only one topic about parttime law school program in UConn .I am putting all details about myself so that you can guide me better.
I am an immigrant from India,came to USA 6 years back on H1 visa and a PR now. My background is in Mechanical engineering for a top-tier university from my home country.I registered in LSAC for their services to evaluate the GPA. I expect a decent one. If I join in July 2013, my fulltime WE is 13 years. All my fulltime WE is only in software programming ,seriously hardcore programming. I have seen both sides of work environments i.e developing/developed worlds and workforce and living conditions.It gave me lot of maturity both professionally and personally. My past employers included best of brands known in software and giants in that.

I stopped with BS and since I am recruited in top company in India as soon as I passed with decent pay in terms of Indian rupees all the way today in terms of dollars, I never felt the need to go for MS either in Mechanical engg or computer sciences as it would not add much to my career prospectives unless you want to go to teaching. Few Phd's report to me now.
On personal front am married, 34 years old by the time I join law school in july'2013.Wife is practicing physician.My kid would be 3 years old then. I love my current job, highly visible in organization,higher ups including CIO know me by name. Decent pay ,after year end salary increment can expect between 115-120 K,yearly stocks given also.

Why law now? Most people ask this. I would say people fall in love even in their 60's. I had this love for law for long timr, but being a first generation immigrant and other constraints on visa, I delayed till the time is right. Now is the right time. I am confident I can convience interviewers both academic admissions and prospective job interviewers after graduating from law school. I am not sure if my age by the time I gradute will cut any prospects. But taking my own life experiences, as long as you have the passion to achieve and put hard work, these deterrents should not stop anyone from pursuing. My greatest insipration is Oscar Pistorius ,the blade runner in Summer Olympics. He competed with the best of best.

Which part of law I am interested?I dont want to waste my WE as I will gain 17 years of WE by the time I pass out. I am interested only in Part-Time i.e evening program.I do not want to leave my current job.I am interested in IP law,I am aware of healthcare IT and healthcare business both for the reasons I work in a healthcare company and also in daily discussions with my wife. So am focussing on IP and Healthcare law. I like prosecuting people and dont want to sit and do just paper work. I implement that in my current job, many vendors try to sell their products ,I blast them with very intimate technical questions .I do the same in my day to day technical issues as peer reviewer with my subordinates. I enjoy doing it.I learn anything new as well as share my experience.

In future I want to start my own law firm with partners again gaining experience.Focus on healthcare litigation and IP litigan .I left this open .I only plan for shortterm.


Now you have a fair understanding about me. I am yet to give LSAT. Registered for Dec.Working hard for it. I am targetting the top 15 programs given in the US rankings for part-time law
http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandr ... w-rankings

I need to consider my wife practice prospects and school for my kid as well. I usually avoid Bronx/Brooklyn areas in NY . My wife is open to relocate for me but we
both want our kid to have good school and safe nieghbourhood. Your inputs on these would be really valuable about the neighbourhood and schooling facilities in surrounding areas of these top 15 programs.
Do you say for part-time programs the rankings does'nt matter much ? I am sure you dont say that, but each have their opinion.

Considering my background profile, lets say a LSAT score of 160-170 range (I dont set very high expectations on anything ,if I reach it that is great), 2/3 great Reco from my Company VP(S), a decent PS . On tution front I would like to get a scholarship and save some dollars if given an option and eligible, else am open to pay.
I am also reading about URM and I suppose south asian indians are not considered URM. Does being first generation help in any way?
Considering all these which schools should I target and am I late for application to most schools in that list?

Success vary from person to person. Pls share your parttime experience , what milestones you achieved post school, not able to achieve and obstacles and particularly for immigrants like me ,how open are doors in the law arena post graduation.

Thanks you again and have a great day!!

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dextermorgan
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Re: My chances for parttime law

Postby dextermorgan » Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:36 pm

I'm not reading that. What is your GPA and LSAT score?

eng_law
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Re: My chances for parttime law

Postby eng_law » Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:45 pm

Had you read it, I am waiting for the conversion by the LSAC services and LSAT in Dec.So you mean my past doesnt matter for fulltime/partime programs?
Since you are not reading everyting ,let me make easy for you :

Only Part Time programs from the most recent rankings

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dextermorgan
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Re: My chances for parttime law

Postby dextermorgan » Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:47 pm

eng_law wrote:Had you read it, I am waiting for the conversion by the LSAC services and LSAT in Dec.So you mean my past doesnt matter for fulltime/partime programs?
Since you are not reading everyting ,let me make easy for you :

Only Part Time programs from the most recent rankings

All that matters is your LSAT and GPA.

eng_law
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Re: My chances for parttime law

Postby eng_law » Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:48 pm

Thank You for the input. Can anyone assert that?

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padawanphil
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Re: My chances for parttime law

Postby padawanphil » Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:56 pm

Yes. I will assert that.

eng_law
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Re: My chances for parttime law

Postby eng_law » Sun Oct 14, 2012 12:04 am

thanks padawanphil. Great if you can add anything more for my other queries in my post.

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Nova
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Re: My chances for parttime law

Postby Nova » Sun Oct 14, 2012 12:09 am

I will also assert that.

No one is going to enteratin a 160-170 hypothetical. Thats like the 80th percentile to the 97.5th. The difference is insane. Good luck in December.

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padawanphil
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Re: My chances for parttime law

Postby padawanphil » Sun Oct 14, 2012 12:13 am

eng_law wrote:thanks padawanphil. Great if you can add anything more for my other queries in my post.

To be honest, you're getting ahead of yourself here. First thing, kill your LSAT. Then you can (and should) come back here for advice on how to proceed from there. FYI there is a ton of information about how to do well on the LSAT on this website. Good luck!

AC Vegas
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Re: My chances for parttime law

Postby AC Vegas » Sun Oct 14, 2012 12:18 am

Look into to George Mason or GW. You can get a job in IP with your background from those schools PT programs. Their full time programs aren't worth it. If you kill the LSAT go to the best T14 you can get into.

eng_law
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Re: My chances for parttime law

Postby eng_law » Sun Oct 14, 2012 12:20 am

Yes we all agree having best GPA and best LSAT score is always best. I am working for that LSAT score. Like 2 sides of coin if something comes short of target, are admission committee going to look beyond that, what a candidate can bring to the table.
I also read few exceptions from other posts as well.

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twenty
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Re: My chances for parttime law

Postby twenty » Sun Oct 14, 2012 1:54 am

eng_law wrote:Yes we all agree having best GPA and best LSAT score is always best. I am working for that LSAT score. Like 2 sides of coin if something comes short of target, are admission committee going to look beyond that, what a candidate can bring to the table.
I also read few exceptions from other posts as well.


Have you cured cancer? Did you win a gold medal at the last olympics? Have you made a nacho platter that is equally delicious, but avoids the unintended consequences of getting cheese on your fingers?

Those are the exceptions.

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: My chances for parttime law

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Sun Oct 14, 2012 3:21 am

You might not like hearing this, but you might be better off not trying to become a lawyer, based on what I've read in your original post. You really like your job. How many hours do you work right now? Even if you do end up getting biglaw after four years of law school, you might already be making more money on a per hour basis right now. (Market for biglaw jobs in major markets is 160K, but the hours are generally considered pretty terrible--which might not be best for someone with a family.) It is unlikely you will be able to start your own firm right after law school (or even for awhile after you graduate) since law school really doesn't train you how to be a lawyer and it is advisable to be working under people who know what they are doing (especially in the more complicated areas you're interested in). Plus, you need to take into consideration that starting your own firm is starting your own business--it requires a significant upfront investment, a business IQ, and it could be hit or miss. (Especially if you want to do something like IP litigation--I have no clue how you're going to get clients as a newly minted JD with something like that. Most people who start their own firms do stuff like personal injury, family law, or criminal defense--stuff that requires just finding regular people as clients, not finding corporate clients).

Have you talked to any lawyers who are doing what you're doing? Talked to any recent law school grads who can talk to you about how awful the current legal market is? Both would be helpful. (TLS can help fill you in on how bad the legal market is--it's not good.)

Only a few part-time programs are worth attending, and I don't know if I would consider any of them worth attending without either a fullride or a significant scholarship. If you really do decide law is the best choice for you, Georgetown is your best bet. GWU on a fullride isn't a bad option either. Same for Fordham. The rest are more "meh." If you want to work in Dallas, SMU's part-time program would be okay on a fullride. Same for University of Houston if you want to work in Houston. That raises another important question though. Where are you willing to work longterm? Because with most of these schools, you might very well be very limited in terms of where you can find a job.

eng_law
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Re: My chances for parttime law

Postby eng_law » Sun Oct 14, 2012 4:35 am

Thanks Richie for taking time late night to respond back. I met few lawyers, most recent was when am flying from JFK to LAX. The passenger next to me is a practising lawyer from Philly and on his way to LA to represnt a account fraud case. I had a good 4 hour chat with him. He graduated from UPenn and ran for public office as a congress man back in 80's. Now he left politics and got back to law. But with regards to my law discussion, as we often hear , one needs to have passion to give commitment, willing to work for long hours and as few lawers have best IT understanding, he recommends me for that. He is very poor in IT related stuff and would never put his hand into that. He works for a biglaw firm in Philadelphia and being in DC/NY is not necessary for someone like him ,but yes as a new minted graduate one can try all options.

In regards to starting a law firm or going solo..etc , it is very long term idea and a longterm target, may be 10 years from now. Currently I am working on shortterm targets. We are considering BayArea/Silicon valley as it meets my needs ,both in terms of IT jobs and IP law, for my wife practice and kid education. But we are evaluating San Deigo ,Dallas and Houston as well.
Most full time T14 do not have part time , so my choice narrows down. Otherwise we would have fixed to Boston.

@twentycents... your analogy seems to say I am same as just graduated liberal arts dude?? And no exceptions are given to WE?

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dextermorgan
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Re: My chances for parttime law

Postby dextermorgan » Sun Oct 14, 2012 10:43 am

eng_law wrote:Thanks Richie for taking time late night to respond back. I met few lawyers, most recent was when am flying from JFK to LAX. The passenger next to me is a practising lawyer from Philly and on his way to LA to represnt a account fraud case. I had a good 4 hour chat with him. He graduated from UPenn and ran for public office as a congress man back in 80's. Now he left politics and got back to law. But with regards to my law discussion, as we often hear , one needs to have passion to give commitment, willing to work for long hours and as few lawers have best IT understanding, he recommends me for that. He is very poor in IT related stuff and would never put his hand into that. He works for a biglaw firm in Philadelphia and being in DC/NY is not necessary for someone like him ,but yes as a new minted graduate one can try all options.

In regards to starting a law firm or going solo..etc , it is very long term idea and a longterm target, may be 10 years from now. Currently I am working on shortterm targets. We are considering BayArea/Silicon valley as it meets my needs ,both in terms of IT jobs and IP law, for my wife practice and kid education. But we are evaluating San Deigo ,Dallas and Houston as well.
Most full time T14 do not have part time , so my choice narrows down. Otherwise we would have fixed to Boston.

@twentycents... your analogy seems to say I am same as just graduated liberal arts dude?? And no exceptions are given to WE?

You are really not getting this, it's okay, lot's of people think schools will care about their "hard" major. The fact is that the only school that cares about WE is Northwestern and they don't have a part-time program. Every school will take the 3.9 liberal arts grad over what I'm assuming is a sub-3.0 in engineering from you.

The Duck
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Re: My chances for parttime law

Postby The Duck » Sun Oct 14, 2012 10:45 am

eng_law wrote:Considering my background profile, lets say a LSAT score of 160-170 range (I dont set very high expectations on anything ,if I reach it that is great),


This is just retarded. Your background has little to do with how you'll score and the difference between a 160 and a 170 is laughably huge.

I'd also work on your writing and grammar if you plan to practice in the US.

eng_law
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Re: My chances for parttime law

Postby eng_law » Sun Oct 14, 2012 10:58 am

@dexter , hope you take some time to read my full text buddy . The LSAC services is still in conversion process, I graduated from a foreign university . How do you say sub 3.0??Seems you are from liberal arts background. Anyhow I registered for the LA forum next month , lets see what they say .

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dextermorgan
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Re: My chances for parttime law

Postby dextermorgan » Sun Oct 14, 2012 11:02 am

eng_law wrote:@dexter , hope you take some time to read my full text buddy . The LSAC services is still in conversion process, I graduated from a foreign university . How do you say sub 3.0??Seems you are from liberal arts background. Anyhow I registered for the LA forum next month , lets see what they say .

Regardless of my background (not liberal arts btw), I am already in law school. What I, and everyone else, is trying to tell you is that no school will give a shit about your work experience. All they will care about is your LSAT and GPA. Your work experience will be useful when it comes time to get a job, but not in admissions.

Thus your "chances for parttime law" will come down to LSAT and GPA. Since you have neither, you really shouldn't have even made a thread in the what are my chances subforum.

eng_law
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Re: My chances for parttime law

Postby eng_law » Sun Oct 14, 2012 11:12 am

@duck what is so retarded in that. You seem to read only bits and pieces dude.Are you a law grad or prospective ??? Anyhow I made that statement considering my cureent test scores . I am working on my weaker areas and hopefully will make it. I started on a fast track mode since last week of sep, so I am aware of my time limitations considering my day job but I will give my best.
Appreciate if you can read the full text and guide me on your experience if any else lets not see too much negativity. I know what it takes .
Look at @Richie text, he gave his genuine helpful suggestion.

eng_law
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Re: My chances for parttime law

Postby eng_law » Sun Oct 14, 2012 11:15 am

Ok man @dexter thanks much for your time.

The Duck
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Re: My chances for parttime law

Postby The Duck » Sun Oct 14, 2012 11:16 am

eng_law wrote:@duck what is so retarded in that. You seem to read only bits and pieces dude.Are you a law grad or prospective ??? Anyhow I made that statement considering my cureent test scores . I am working on my weaker areas and hopefully will make it. I started on a fast track mode since last week of sep, so I am aware of my time limitations considering my day job but I will give my best.
Appreciate if you can read the full text and guide me on your experience if any else lets not see too much negativity. I know what it takes .
Look at @Richie text, he gave his genuine helpful suggestion.


My point is that a 160 is a bad score and a 170 is a good score. I'm a 3L...I'm very clear on how the admissions process works. LSAT/GPA are all that matter. Since you know neither, this thread is useless. And you may be PT'ing in that range, but many people have scored higher, or as much as 15 points lower, on the actual LSAT. That's why we tell people to come back with a real score.

I don't have the time to read all that crap. If you want people to read it, it needs to be much shorter and the writing much better. Right now, it just gives me a headache. Seriously man, much of practicing law is writing. It is critically evaluated during both admissions and when looking for a job. Maybe you should take a break from studying for the LSAT and take some community college courses in writing first.

I'm not sure why you want to go part time anyhow. None of those schools are very good. (Well, g-town is moderately ok but I wouldn't go there PT.) I definitely wouldn't take on much debt to go there...

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North
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Re: My chances for parttime law

Postby North » Sun Oct 14, 2012 11:40 am

eng_law wrote:Ok man @dexter thanks much for your time.

Nothing that has been said here is incorrect and your being dismissive of and a little hostile to the people telling you what you don't want to hear doesn't make them wrong.

eng_law
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Re: My chances for parttime law

Postby eng_law » Sun Oct 14, 2012 12:35 pm

@north: I am not dismissive of anyone,I respect everyone views. I am here on this forum only to put my case and get positive suggestions and how to take forward. It is a known fact that tests and grades are very impotant for admission process. I put my case very simple, considering my WE background and (assuming) I score anywhere between 160 - 170 what are my chances in the programs listed in page 1 of the url posted. If I score 170 + ,then sky is limit. I have seen how the Medical Residency admission process works here - a package based system i.e apart from scores your recos, PS and research work matters. I know law is an open field and selection criteria might be different.

@duck: if someone approaches you and ask for a suggestion and you start getting headache ,backache without reading the case, man seriously you should drop out of law school . You are not fit for the profession. Imagine what all aches you get when you jump into the professional bandwagon. With the stories of low law employment flying around, why would someone in 30's leave a FT job,. Who knows what happens 4 years after 2013, the prospects might be good/bad. It is out of my love for law subject, I am interested to go to scool, a decent one as all my career I maintained that. What I would do after 4 years is long term plan.
I regularly take interviews for tech positions and let me tell you if someone is from a tier1 university I put them on top of my list for an interview.But you know what if the community college guy gives the right analysis and reasoning over the ivy league guy, I just hire him. So atleast in tech world a school name is only a first stepping stone, but how you survive and carryon yourself latter does not depend at all on your school. I regularly read about life after law school on other TLS threads .
I can hire a english teacher to correct my grammer if I am so bad, but if your reasoning and analysis skills are poor , the firm will hire someone else in your place. Your lack of experience and immaturity are clearly visible in your statements.

Chill @duck.

The Duck
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Re: My chances for parttime law

Postby The Duck » Sun Oct 14, 2012 12:36 pm

eng_law wrote:But you know what if the community college guy gives the right analysis and reasoning over the ivy league guy, I just hire him. So atleast in tech world a school name is only a first stepping stone, but how you survive and carryon yourself latter does not depend at all on your school.


This isn't how it works in the legal field. HTH.

I'm going to go ahead and call Image

eng_law
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Re: My chances for parttime law

Postby eng_law » Fri Oct 19, 2012 1:31 am

Folks just got my GPA updated. It is 3.86
My graduation degree in Engineering was in percentage and the LSAC need to convert to 4.0 GPA




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