166/3.7/PhD

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gatex
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166/3.7/PhD

Postby gatex » Sun Sep 30, 2012 12:22 am

As the title says, older student with a PhD from Harvard and some legal work experience. I understand my best shot is in the lower T20, but how high could I aim for early decision? Assume money is not an issue.

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2014
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Re: 166/3.7/PhD

Postby 2014 » Sun Sep 30, 2012 12:27 pm

Is the PhD in some science? That might help a bit.

If you want to use ED to maximize your odds though your best bet is Michigan who has relatively low medians followed by Georgetown should Michigan decline you. I'd say in light of declining application numbers that you have a reasonable shot at both with ED.

It's easily arguable that GULC is not worth sticker, but certainly nowhere lower than it is worth your ED, and nowhere higher than Michigan is going to let you in most likely.

Ti Malice
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Re: 166/3.7/PhD

Postby Ti Malice » Sun Sep 30, 2012 7:16 pm

Study up and retake for a 173+. Then enjoy a bit of a shot at HLS, very strong odds at CLS and NYU (with likely money), and potential full rides from some of the lower T14. Money might not be an issue for you, but I can't imagine you're so extravagantly wealthy than $100+K is trivial to you, given that you want to attend professional school. Maybe I'm wrong there.

The LSAT is very learnable. A little time spent improving your skills on the test could translate into $50-150K in tuition savings at a much better school than you can currently attend, as well as hundreds of thousands in additional lifetime earnings. You'll never have anything like this kind of leverage over your future (legal) career options again.

RodneyRuxin
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Re: 166/3.7/PhD

Postby RodneyRuxin » Sun Sep 30, 2012 7:58 pm

If you choose to ignore the all too common TLS "retake or bust" sentiment, you might wanna ED at Northwestern for their full ride and do really well in your interview.

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Nova
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Re: 166/3.7/PhD

Postby Nova » Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:27 pm

RodneyRuxin wrote:If you choose to ignore the all too common TLS "retake or bust" sentiment, you might wanna ED at Northwestern for their full ride and do really well in your interview.


Not getting in ED when one is below both medians.

Especially not gonna get in anywhere that gives full rides to EDs when one is under both medians.

Ti Malice
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Re: 166/3.7/PhD

Postby Ti Malice » Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:34 pm

Nova wrote:
RodneyRuxin wrote:If you choose to ignore the all too common TLS "retake or bust" sentiment, you might wanna ED at Northwestern for their full ride and do really well in your interview.


Not getting in ED when one is below both medians.

Especially not gonna get in anywhere that gives full rides to EDs when one is under both medians.


Yep. Hence, retake.

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TheThriller
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Re: 166/3.7/PhD

Postby TheThriller » Sun Sep 30, 2012 11:37 pm

OP is above GPA median at Cornell with Lsat 1 point below

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L’Étranger
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Re: 166/3.7/PhD

Postby L’Étranger » Sun Sep 30, 2012 11:45 pm

TheThriller wrote:OP is above GPA median at Cornell with Lsat 1 point below


This. But definitely apply to MVPDNG - applications are down...so you never know.

ze2151
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Re: 166/3.7/PhD

Postby ze2151 » Sun Sep 30, 2012 11:56 pm

retake. ostensibly you've got the firepower to get into a harvard doctoral program. unless you lucked your way in, you're capable of more than a 166. get a 176 and write your ticket.

gatex
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Re: 166/3.7/PhD

Postby gatex » Mon Oct 01, 2012 4:16 am

Thanks for all the feedback. Definitely bummed about NW's competitive ED scholarship thing, since I would've probably gone for that otherwise (only because I would love to end up in Chicago). I'm curious why you mentioned Michigan but not Duke. They have very similar medians, no? Cornell is a good choice, but my understanding is they don't really offer a true ED option.

While I admire the simplicity of the "wise up and get a 173" advice, it took enough time and practice for me to pull the 166. (Frankly, the older I get, the less adept I am at standardized testing, and I was never particularly brilliant at it anyway, even on the SAT/GRE. At the risk of stating the obvious, the training I got in grad school over six years was the polar opposite of studying for a three-hour multiple-choice exam.)

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TheThriller
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Re: 166/3.7/PhD

Postby TheThriller » Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:09 pm

gatex wrote:Thanks for all the feedback. Definitely bummed about NW's competitive ED scholarship thing, since I would've probably gone for that otherwise (only because I would love to end up in Chicago). I'm curious why you mentioned Michigan but not Duke. They have very similar medians, no? Cornell is a good choice, but my understanding is they don't really offer a true ED option.

While I admire the simplicity of the "wise up and get a 173" advice, it took enough time and practice for me to pull the 166. (Frankly, the older I get, the less adept I am at standardized testing, and I was never particularly brilliant at it anyway, even on the SAT/GRE. At the risk of stating the obvious, the training I got in grad school over six years was the polar opposite of studying for a three-hour multiple-choice exam.)


You don't need an ED to get Cornell, I would give you 50%+ at snagging it RD.

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UtilityMonster
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Re: 166/3.7/PhD

Postby UtilityMonster » Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:29 pm

I think the OP, who has a PhD from Harvard, is a slam dunk at Cornell.

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TheThriller
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Re: 166/3.7/PhD

Postby TheThriller » Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:57 pm

Just curious, why would a PhD from Harvard want to drop 200k on a JD?

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PeanutsNJam
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Re: 166/3.7/PhD

Postby PeanutsNJam » Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:43 pm

Money's not an issue brah. 200k ezpz

This guy's gonna go to med school after his JD.

MD/PhD/JD

Then he's gonna go to England and get knighted.

So he'll be Sir. Dr. Gatex (MD, PhD, JD)

gatex
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Re: 166/3.7/PhD

Postby gatex » Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:36 pm

Money is an important consideration, but that's a different question that I have already read plenty of other threads about (e.g., the career/debt consequences of choosing between lower-tier schools vs. T1 w/ money vs. T14 at sticker).

Put it this way: there's some vague point at which I would at least think about paying sticker, and I initiated this thread because I was marginally curious about the highest-ranked school I could get into via ED (knowing that I stand no chance of getting any money by applying ED to anything in the T20). I specifically did not want to ask the is-it-worth-sticker (how-could-it-be-worth-sticker) question, which is why I gave that assumption in the OP.

I'm not a billionaire prince and, even if I were, I don't think I would mind that much.

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elterrible78
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Re: 166/3.7/PhD

Postby elterrible78 » Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:42 pm

gatex wrote:Thanks for all the feedback. Definitely bummed about NW's competitive ED scholarship thing, since I would've probably gone for that otherwise (only because I would love to end up in Chicago). I'm curious why you mentioned Michigan but not Duke. They have very similar medians, no? Cornell is a good choice, but my understanding is they don't really offer a true ED option.

While I admire the simplicity of the "wise up and get a 173" advice, it took enough time and practice for me to pull the 166. (Frankly, the older I get, the less adept I am at standardized testing, and I was never particularly brilliant at it anyway, even on the SAT/GRE. At the risk of stating the obvious, the training I got in grad school over six years was the polar opposite of studying for a three-hour multiple-choice exam.)


This is interesting. I guess it depends on what you got your PhD in, of course, but I found that the training I got at grad school helped me immensely on the LSAT, particular on Logical Reasoning. If you had to do any kind of statistics based stuff at all (and, again, if you have an art history PhD, this is probably not the case), it ought to have given you a leg up on argument evaluation.

gatex
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Re: 166/3.7/PhD

Postby gatex » Tue Oct 02, 2012 2:13 am

Ah, sorry. That was a clumsy generalization on my part. Yes, my program is a lot closer to art history than statistics. That being said, I guess I was still thinking more universally or structurally (e.g., methodical research extending across many months and years in a single field vs. constant lightning-fast undergrad exams). There are graduate qualifying exams, but even those are categorically different experiences. I suppose one might also expect a social sciences or humanities PhD to excel at reading comprehension, but in fact I found my background caused me to wildly overthink most questions. This may be a personal idiosyncrasy rather than some entrenched institutional phenomenon though. Point blank: I think I would've done better on the LSAT back in undergrad when I was working in a bunch of different disciplines at the same time and constantly taking multiple-choice exams.

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Lawquacious
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Re: 166/3.7/PhD

Postby Lawquacious » Tue Oct 02, 2012 2:28 am

Retake for sure and enjoy H/Y/S. But even if you don't retake I think you have a good shot at Lower T14. Admissions is primarily a numbers game, but you have a strong GPA on that front, a decent LSAT, and a PhD from HARVARD (regardless of what discipline it is in). I think you will definitely outperform your numbers as long as you can present a strong statement of purpose. But really I would make sure you want to do law. That's a big if.

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Lisi
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Re: 166/3.7/PhD

Postby Lisi » Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:35 pm

I had your exact adjusted GPA and had completed a PhD in the humanities from a top school when I applied to law school. I definitely understand how grad school doesn't necessarily prepare you for taking the LSAT - and that you feel like you could have done better had you taken it right out of college rather than after many years of academic work. However, I think it's really important to try to get your score up a few points if you want a shot at some of the top schools. Law schools really care about your stats, and whatever else makes your application more interesting is really just an extra plus - not, in the vast majority of cases, a determining factor. Right now I would guess that your GPA is at or below median for the top 6 schools, and your LSAT is definitely below median. I think it's possible to get in if your GPA is at or below median and your LSAT is at or below median, but your GPA and LSAT should be at least very close to median. This is why your LSAT score is a bit of a problem. Have you considered taking an LSAT class? I've heard that a lot of people do that and think that it helps (I didn't take a class, so I can't speak from personal experience on that one). Alternatively, I would pick a school where at least one of your stats is above median and apply early (especially if money isn't an issue). I wouldn't overshoot your stats thinking the PhD will make up for them.




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