Average GPA, embarrassing LSAT scores but OMG I WANT THIS!

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LittlePete83
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Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 6:46 pm

Average GPA, embarrassing LSAT scores but OMG I WANT THIS!

Postby LittlePete83 » Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:00 am

Before I delve into the deepest, darkest secrets of my educational past, let me preface this post by stating that I know I won't be going to a T14. I'm not delusional. I'm aiming for middle-of-the-road. My undergraduate GPA and LSAT ineptitude (it's seriously my white whale) won't let me go any higher on the LSAT ladder. Plus, while I know that the Harvards of the world have a better pick of jobs, I also know that Suits is just a TV show and Legally Blonde is just a movie.

Now that you've read my ranting disclaimer, here are my deets:
Undergrad GPA: 3.2, BSBA in accounting and finance. Highest LSAT (NO laughing) 151 (got the same MF-ing score twice).
Softs: I'm 28 (nearly 29) with 6 full years of work experience (though not relevant to legal profession -- mostly advertising). 3.9 GPA in MS/Legal Administration program. Graduated 1st in my class. Great reco's from profs and former employers.

Here's my school list:
CU Boulder
Denver
Loyola Marymount
Pepperdine
San Diego
Kansas
Ohio State
Case Western

I'm a CO resident so CU is my 1st choice, Denver is my second choice. Some (or most) of you may think this whole thing is a reach but stranger things have happened, right?

I was signed up for the Oct LSAT but work was insane and I didn't feel nearly as prepared as I wanted to, so December it is! I know it's late in the game but I don't want to risk another 151 (or lower). I really want to just submit everything now and never think about the LSAT again but I'm thinking that's not an option. So, here are my questions:

A. Can I apply to Denver (and/or other schools) now with my current LSAT score and then reapply if necessary? I read in another thread that I can ask a school to review my application even if I have a potential LSAT scheduled.

B. What are my chances with these schools? I know some (most) are reaches but I'm tenacious and I don't take no for an answer. This will be my fourth dance with the law school devil. Call me crazy but all of those rejection letters haven't deterred me yet.

So, TLSers, be kind. I'm nearly 30 and can't stomach too much more BS than I'm putting up with at work. Give me some constructive criticism or just tell me a good story. I'm listening.
Last edited by LittlePete83 on Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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twenty
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Re: Average GPA, embarrassing LSAT scores but OMG I WANT THIS!

Postby twenty » Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:47 am

LittlePete83 wrote:A. Can I apply to Denver (and/or other schools) now with my current LSAT score and then reapply if necessary?


Yeahhh, but don't do this. Apply the second your December LSAT comes back.

Here's the deal. Your 3.2 is bad, but it's not end of the world bad. Unless you're literally retarded or English isn't your first language, there is no reason you can't get up to at least a 162 with drilling. How many PTs have you done? I'd say the vast majority of TLS has taken at least 25 PTs in total between sections and full length ones.

The LSAT is easily the most learnable thing in the world. I went from a 148 diagnostic to a 180 (most recent was 177) from last October to now. It's totally possible. Use Pithypike's guide.The less debt you take on by getting your LSAT up, the better.

Good luck. :)

LittlePete83
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Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 6:46 pm

Re: Average GPA, embarrassing LSAT scores but OMG I WANT THIS!

Postby LittlePete83 » Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:04 am

twentypercentmore wrote:
LittlePete83 wrote:A. Can I apply to Denver (and/or other schools) now with my current LSAT score and then reapply if necessary?


Yeahhh, but don't do this. Apply the second your December LSAT comes back.

Here's the deal. Your 3.2 is bad, but it's not end of the world bad. Unless you're literally retarded or English isn't your first language, there is no reason you can't get up to at least a 162 with drilling. How many PTs have you done? I'd say the vast majority of TLS has taken at least 25 PTs in total between sections and full length ones.

The LSAT is easily the most learnable thing in the world. I went from a 148 diagnostic to a 180 (most recent was 177) from last October to now. It's totally possible. Use Pithypike's guide.The less debt you take on by getting your LSAT up, the better.

Good luck. :)


Thanks! I needed the encouragement! I guess the one good thing about getting older is that my undergraduate GPA is becoming (slightly) less of a factor. I know it's still one of the first thing ad comms look at but I got those grades 7-10 years ago. And a double major in accounting and finance at a top 15 business school has to rank higher than mass comm or modern dance, right!? Right?!

But all jokes aside, you're totally right. This will be my 5th (I'll pause as you pick your jaw up off the floor) official time taking the test. I've taken 10ish PTs (all sections timed in one sitting) total so I need to get my act together. Lord knows I have enough LSAT PTs and study guides.

I've been using PowerScore. I like their no BS approach but I'll pick up Pithypike's guide. Thanks again and best of luck to you!

LittlePete83
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Re: Average GPA, embarrassing LSAT scores but OMG I WANT THIS!

Postby LittlePete83 » Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:07 am

LittlePete83 wrote:A. Can I apply to Denver (and/or other schools) now with my current LSAT score and then reapply if necessary? I read in another thread that I can ask a school to review my application even if I have a potential LSAT scheduled.


Oh, and yeah, the apps will be ready to go probably before I take the December test so no need for desperation and groveling (yet).

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geary86
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Re: Average GPA, embarrassing LSAT scores but OMG I WANT THIS!

Postby geary86 » Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:09 am

There are many test takers like myself whose first language isn't English...
RC is especially difficult for us, but we still manage to score 160+ with adequate preparation!
So please don't give up. You are golden :)

LittlePete83
Posts: 52
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 6:46 pm

Re: Average GPA, embarrassing LSAT scores but OMG I WANT THIS!

Postby LittlePete83 » Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:28 am

geary86 wrote:There are many test takers like myself whose first language isn't English...
RC is especially difficult for us, but we still manage to score 160+ with adequate preparation!
So please don't give up. You are golden :)


Thanks so much for the encouragement! I guess I just started this thread to get encouragement -- And a few kicks in the ass to get back into study mode.

And I'm actually just a run of the mill white girl from Colorado who speaks limited French and pretends to speak Italian after a few glasses of wine :lol:

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lovejopd
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Re: Average GPA, embarrassing LSAT scores but OMG I WANT THIS!

Postby lovejopd » Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:56 am

geary86 wrote:There are many test takers like myself whose first language isn't English...
RC is especially difficult for us, but we still manage to score 160+ with adequate preparation!
So please don't give up. You are golden :)

^This!

I am in the same boat, but I tried to manage to get 160's with a perfect Game score :-)
Don't give up man~There are tons of international students who struggle with LSAT more than any native speakers could imagine :mrgreen:

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BlaqBella
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Re: Average GPA, embarrassing LSAT scores but OMG I WANT THIS!

Postby BlaqBella » Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:29 pm

LittlePete83 wrote:Before I delve into the deepest, darkest secrets of my educational past, let me preface this post by stating that I know I won't be going to a T14. I'm not delusional. I'm aiming for middle-of-the-road. My undergraduate GPA and LSAT ineptitude (it's seriously my white whale) won't let me go any higher on the LSAT ladder. Plus, while I know that the Harvards of the world have a better pick of jobs, I also know that Suits is just a TV show and Legally Blonde is just a movie.

Now that you've read my ranting disclaimer, here are my deets:
Undergrad GPA: 3.2, BSBA in accounting and finance. Highest LSAT (NO laughing) 151 (got the same MF-ing score twice).
Softs: I'm 28 (nearly 29) with 6 full years of work experience (though not relevant to legal profession -- mostly advertising). 3.9 GPA in MS/Legal Administration program. Graduated 1st in my class. Great reco's from profs and former employers.

Here's my school list:
CU Boulder
Denver
Loyola Marymount
Pepperdine
San Diego
Kansas
Ohio State
Case Western

I'm a CO resident so CU is my 1st choice, Denver is my second choice. Some (or most) of you may think this whole thing is a reach but stranger things have happened, right?

I was signed up for the Oct LSAT but work was insane and I didn't feel nearly as prepared as I wanted to, so December it is! I know it's late in the game but I don't want to risk another 151 (or lower). I really want to just submit everything now and never think about the LSAT again but I'm thinking that's not an option. So, here are my questions:

A. Can I apply to Denver (and/or other schools) now with my current LSAT score and then reapply if necessary? I read in another thread that I can ask a school to review my application even if I have a potential LSAT scheduled.

B. What are my chances with these schools? I know some (most) are reaches but I'm tenacious and I don't take no for an answer. This will be my fourth dance with the law school devil. Call me crazy but all of those rejection letters haven't deterred me yet.

So, TLSers, be kind. I'm nearly 30 and can't stomach too much more BS than I'm putting up with at work. Give me some constructive criticism or just tell me a good story. I'm listening.


1. Hire a private LSAT tutor
2. Pick up Manhattan LSAT guides (in LG, LR and RC) and re-learn everything from scratch
3. Score higher on LSAT
4. Profit - Acceptance + $$$ to attend

Hold off sending those applications until you've nailed the LSAT down. It's conquerable. Just do the work and be patient with the test and more importantly, yourself.

Nat Sherman
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Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:12 pm

Re: Average GPA, embarrassing LSAT scores but OMG I WANT THIS!

Postby Nat Sherman » Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:39 pm

I don't know much about the other schools on your list, but I'd be very cautious of Ohio State. It seemed like summer jobs were almost non-existent and I knew a lot of people who were unemployed at graduation despite being top 15% at a very strong regional school. Also, to conform to TLS wisdom, retake.

LittlePete83
Posts: 52
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 6:46 pm

Re: Average GPA, embarrassing LSAT scores but OMG I WANT THIS!

Postby LittlePete83 » Wed Sep 19, 2012 12:07 am

lovejopd wrote:
geary86 wrote:There are many test takers like myself whose first language isn't English...
RC is especially difficult for us, but we still manage to score 160+ with adequate preparation!
So please don't give up. You are golden :)

^This!

I am in the same boat, but I tried to manage to get 160's with a perfect Game score :-)
Don't give up man~There are tons of international students who struggle with LSAT more than any native speakers could imagine :mrgreen:


Just to clarify -- I'm a white chick from Colorado, not an international student (not that there's anything wrong with that) ;)

Total Litigator
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Re: Average GPA, embarrassing LSAT scores but OMG I WANT THIS!

Postby Total Litigator » Wed Sep 19, 2012 12:30 am

With your numbers you'd be lucky to get into a T4. And by lucky I mean unlucky.

But my main point is that you won't get into any of those schools on your list anyway, so you'll have to get a higher lsat score whether you like it or not.

LittlePete83
Posts: 52
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 6:46 pm

Re: Average GPA, embarrassing LSAT scores but OMG I WANT THIS!

Postby LittlePete83 » Wed Sep 19, 2012 12:35 am

BlaqBella wrote:
LittlePete83 wrote:Before I delve into the deepest, darkest secrets of my educational past, let me preface this post by stating that I know I won't be going to a T14. I'm not delusional. I'm aiming for middle-of-the-road. My undergraduate GPA and LSAT ineptitude (it's seriously my white whale) won't let me go any higher on the LSAT ladder. Plus, while I know that the Harvards of the world have a better pick of jobs, I also know that Suits is just a TV show and Legally Blonde is just a movie.

Now that you've read my ranting disclaimer, here are my deets:
Undergrad GPA: 3.2, BSBA in accounting and finance. Highest LSAT (NO laughing) 151 (got the same MF-ing score twice).
Softs: I'm 28 (nearly 29) with 6 full years of work experience (though not relevant to legal profession -- mostly advertising). 3.9 GPA in MS/Legal Administration program. Graduated 1st in my class. Great reco's from profs and former employers.

Here's my school list:
CU Boulder
Denver
Loyola Marymount
Pepperdine
San Diego
Kansas
Ohio State
Case Western

I'm a CO resident so CU is my 1st choice, Denver is my second choice. Some (or most) of you may think this whole thing is a reach but stranger things have happened, right?

I was signed up for the Oct LSAT but work was insane and I didn't feel nearly as prepared as I wanted to, so December it is! I know it's late in the game but I don't want to risk another 151 (or lower). I really want to just submit everything now and never think about the LSAT again but I'm thinking that's not an option. So, here are my questions:

A. Can I apply to Denver (and/or other schools) now with my current LSAT score and then reapply if necessary? I read in another thread that I can ask a school to review my application even if I have a potential LSAT scheduled.

B. What are my chances with these schools? I know some (most) are reaches but I'm tenacious and I don't take no for an answer. This will be my fourth dance with the law school devil. Call me crazy but all of those rejection letters haven't deterred me yet.

So, TLSers, be kind. I'm nearly 30 and can't stomach too much more BS than I'm putting up with at work. Give me some constructive criticism or just tell me a good story. I'm listening.


1. Hire a private LSAT tutor
2. Pick up Manhattan LSAT guides (in LG, LR and RC) and re-learn everything from scratch
3. Score higher on LSAT
4. Profit - Acceptance + $$$ to attend

Hold off sending those applications until you've nailed the LSAT down. It's conquerable. Just do the work and be patient with the test and more importantly, yourself.


Great advice -- Thank you! I think I have all of the what-not-to-do's down. I've gotten into schools, just no scholarship $$. With my undergrad and grad loans, I'll need all the help I can get.

How does Manhattan differ from PowerScore? And as for the tutor, I tried that for round 3 and my score dropped 4 points. I'm sure my tutor was just a dud but omg they're SO expensive. Any suggestions for online courses? My work schedule is so insane that in-person classes won't work.

Most days at work I have quite a few moments that motivate me keep studying my ass off and to write KILLER personal statements so I'm not giving up on this one :)

LittlePete83
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Re: Average GPA, embarrassing LSAT scores but OMG I WANT THIS!

Postby LittlePete83 » Wed Sep 19, 2012 12:38 am

Nat Sherman wrote:I don't know much about the other schools on your list, but I'd be very cautious of Ohio State. It seemed like summer jobs were almost non-existent and I knew a lot of people who were unemployed at graduation despite being top 15% at a very strong regional school. Also, to conform to TLS wisdom, retake.


Sending in everything as-is was a midnight moment of weakness. Shit's about to get serious between me and the LSAT.

And thanks for the Ohio State advice. Living in Columbus isn't on my bucket list buuuuut making money after I graduate is.

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Tom Joad
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Re: Average GPA, embarrassing LSAT scores but OMG I WANT THIS!

Postby Tom Joad » Wed Sep 19, 2012 12:43 am

Is not going to law school an option? I would imagine you can make a respectable $20,000 a year with your current level of education.

LittlePete83
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Re: Average GPA, embarrassing LSAT scores but OMG I WANT THIS!

Postby LittlePete83 » Wed Sep 19, 2012 12:56 am

Total Litigator wrote:With your numbers you'd be lucky to get into a T4. And by lucky I mean unlucky.

But my main point is that you won't get into any of those schools on your list anyway, so you'll have to get a higher lsat score whether you like it or not.


Ouch but true. I just wish I could replace my undergrad GPA with my grad GPA. And erase all traces of my LSAT scores. This time? I ain't talkin bout practice.

Image

http://youtu.be/eGDBR2L5kzI

LittlePete83
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Re: Average GPA, embarrassing LSAT scores but OMG I WANT THIS!

Postby LittlePete83 » Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:08 am

Tom Joad wrote:Is not going to law school an option? I would imagine you can make a respectable $20,000 a year with your current level of education.


Hitting below the belt there, Tom Joad. Though if you're talking Great Depression dollars, I'll take that as a compliment.

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Tom Joad
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Re: Average GPA, embarrassing LSAT scores but OMG I WANT THIS!

Postby Tom Joad » Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:15 am

LittlePete83 wrote:
Tom Joad wrote:Is not going to law school an option? I would imagine you can make a respectable $20,000 a year with your current level of education.


Hitting below the belt there, Tom Joad. Though if you're talking Great Depression dollars, I'll take that as a compliment.

If you consider the probable employment options of some of the schools you are looking at, plus debt payments, plus foregone income continuing a low paying job might be the wiser economic decision.

LittlePete83
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Re: Average GPA, embarrassing LSAT scores but OMG I WANT THIS!

Postby LittlePete83 » Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:27 am

Tom Joad wrote:
LittlePete83 wrote:
Tom Joad wrote:Is not going to law school an option? I would imagine you can make a respectable $20,000 a year with your current level of education.


Hitting below the belt there, Tom Joad. Though if you're talking Great Depression dollars, I'll take that as a compliment.

If you consider the probable employment options of some of the schools you are looking at, plus debt payments, plus foregone income continuing a low paying job might be the wiser economic decision.


Don't you worry your pretty little head about me and my bank account. I'll be fine.

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cinephile
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Re: Average GPA, embarrassing LSAT scores but OMG I WANT THIS!

Postby cinephile » Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:40 am

Do you want to go to law school or do you want to be employed as a lawyer in a permanent, full-time position? Because if all you want is to go to law school, that's easy. There are several schools that would accept you right now with your scores. If you want a paying job as a lawyer, you really do need to say no to everything outside of the T14 (and maybe a good regional school if and only if it's in a strong and large market - like UT). Assume you'll be at the median at any school you enroll in. Does Denver still sound good?

LittlePete83
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Re: Average GPA, embarrassing LSAT scores but OMG I WANT THIS!

Postby LittlePete83 » Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:53 am

cinephile wrote:Do you want to go to law school or do you want to be employed as a lawyer in a permanent, full-time position? Because if all you want is to go to law school, that's easy. There are several schools that would accept you right now with your scores. If you want a paying job as a lawyer, you really do need to say no to everything outside of the T14 (and maybe a good regional school if and only if it's in a strong and large market - like UT). Assume you'll be at the median at any school you enroll in. Does Denver still sound good?


I've been around the block a time or two so I know that you can go to a school that isn't a T14 and still get a job at a decent firm that pays well. Sure it won't be as easy and there won't be as many jobs for a CU grad but I'm prepared to fight.

And honestly, I'm fine with staying in Denver. And I know I'm asking for trouble posting on TLS being a mid/bottom of the top 100 list but hey, I'm being realistic. There's no way in hell Yale would accept me with my U GPA even if I scored a 180 and had a hand written recommendation from Obama.

In a nutshell, Lawyer: yes, make money: yes, stay in Colorado: sure why not? And I may be at the median when I enroll but I don't plan on staying down there for very long.

Danteshek
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Re: Average GPA, embarrassing LSAT scores but OMG I WANT THIS!

Postby Danteshek » Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:58 am

You're looking at some of the worst schools in the country with those scores. The only reasonable advise is to tell you to retake (study this time), or don't go at all.

Danteshek
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Re: Average GPA, embarrassing LSAT scores but OMG I WANT THIS!

Postby Danteshek » Wed Sep 19, 2012 2:00 am

LittlePete83 wrote:I've been around the block a time or two so I know that you can go to a school that isn't a T14 and still get a job at a decent firm that pays well. Sure it won't be as easy and there won't be as many jobs for a CU grad but I'm prepared to fight.


So clueless. I almost want to cry.

:( :( :( :( :( :( :(

Or laugh.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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IAFG
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Re: Average GPA, embarrassing LSAT scores but OMG I WANT THIS!

Postby IAFG » Wed Sep 19, 2012 2:15 am

LittlePete83 wrote:
Thanks! I needed the encouragement! I guess the one good thing about getting older is that my undergraduate GPA is becoming (slightly) less of a factor. I know it's still one of the first thing ad comms look at but I got those grades 7-10 years ago. And a double major in accounting and finance at a top 15 business school has to rank higher than mass comm or modern dance, right!? Right?!

But all jokes aside, you're totally right. This will be my 5th (I'll pause as you pick your jaw up off the floor) official time taking the test. I've taken 10ish PTs (all sections timed in one sitting) total so I need to get my act together. Lord knows I have enough LSAT PTs and study guides.

I've been using PowerScore. I like their no BS approach but I'll pick up Pithypike's guide. Thanks again and best of luck to you!

Wait, what? You've only taken 2 PTs for each administered LSAT you've taken? My friend, I took every PT available going 7 years back, twice. If that has truly been the extent of your PTing, you have a lot of room to grow.

LittlePete83
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Re: Average GPA, embarrassing LSAT scores but OMG I WANT THIS!

Postby LittlePete83 » Wed Sep 19, 2012 2:30 am

Danteshek wrote:
LittlePete83 wrote:I've been around the block a time or two so I know that you can go to a school that isn't a T14 and still get a job at a decent firm that pays well. Sure it won't be as easy and there won't be as many jobs for a CU grad but I'm prepared to fight.


So clueless. I almost want to cry.

:( :( :( :( :( :( :(

Or laugh.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Hmmmmm you've been a TLS member since 2008 so that means you're either a 3L or a recent grad. In either case, you know everything there is to know about, well, everything.

But seriously, what are you doing here? Trying to break my spirit because you didn't pass the bar? Did your favorite professor ream you for incorrectly citing a case?

Don't cry for me, Cher Horowitz. You're the one who drank the T14 kool-aid. You think you need a Harvard diploma to make partner at a big firm? Wow. Naive and bitter. Not a good color on you.

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Tom Joad
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Re: Average GPA, embarrassing LSAT scores but OMG I WANT THIS!

Postby Tom Joad » Wed Sep 19, 2012 2:38 am

IAFG wrote:
LittlePete83 wrote:
Thanks! I needed the encouragement! I guess the one good thing about getting older is that my undergraduate GPA is becoming (slightly) less of a factor. I know it's still one of the first thing ad comms look at but I got those grades 7-10 years ago. And a double major in accounting and finance at a top 15 business school has to rank higher than mass comm or modern dance, right!? Right?!

But all jokes aside, you're totally right. This will be my 5th (I'll pause as you pick your jaw up off the floor) official time taking the test. I've taken 10ish PTs (all sections timed in one sitting) total so I need to get my act together. Lord knows I have enough LSAT PTs and study guides.

I've been using PowerScore. I like their no BS approach but I'll pick up Pithypike's guide. Thanks again and best of luck to you!

Wait, what? You've only taken 2 PTs for each administered LSAT you've taken? My friend, I took every PT available going 7 years back, twice. If that has truly been the extent of your PTing, you have a lot of room to grow.

With his remarkable foresight and intellect he won't be at median long!

Sorry everybody is being mean, LittlePete. You are just extremely uninformed. Why do you even want to be a lawyer? You claim your current job is bad, do you know what people who are lucky enough to get legal jobs do? At the schools would are looking at you have about a 50% chance to get a small firm job paying around $40,000 a year. That probably isn't must more than you are making right now and you can expect longer hours (and $200,000 in debt). If you are unlucky you just have the debt and the same job prospects you had before going to law school.




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