Disheartened by LSAC's Grade Conversion.

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butyourhonor
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Disheartened by LSAC's Grade Conversion.

Postby butyourhonor » Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:36 pm

Hello all,

I'm a Senior double-major in political science/history from UCSD. I'm applying to Columbia, Cornell, Georgetown, Harvard, New York University, Notre Dame, University of California, Berkeley, and University of California, Los Angeles for Fall 2013. However, because I transferred from a community college, my LSAC is being calculated as a 3.64, whereas my UC GPA is a 3.82. I took my diagnostic LSAT two months ago and scored a 168. Since then, I've been taking at least two timed practice tests a day (the official ones) and am currently scoring a minimum of a 176. I've also read all of the power score bibles, most of their workbooks and question/game-type trainings, and am working through the Deconstructed series now. With this next month to study, I hope to get that score even higher. Also, starting two weeks before my October test date, I plan to start getting up to take the test at the time I will be taking it in October.

Assuming that I DO score a 176 on the actual exam, what do you think my chances are of getting into Harvard and Columbia, my top choices? I know that the weighted GPA may not be great for Harvard, but I'm wondering if these schools tend to also heavily consider upward trends in grades. In short, do they consider both GPAs if they're on the fence about you? I also have a really kick-ass list of extra-curricular activities (mock trial/am a research assistant to a professor, have been published, etc.), and I love my admissions essay.

Please, share you experiences and opinions. Be honest! I appreciate it in advance.

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butyourhonor
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Re: Disheartened by LSAC's Grade Conversion.

Postby butyourhonor » Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:37 pm

And I know, I know, you can't be sure of how well you'll do on the actual test date, but I literally haven't scored below a 174 since a little over three weeks ago. So I'm cautiously confident.

WanderingPondering
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Re: Disheartened by LSAC's Grade Conversion.

Postby WanderingPondering » Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:39 pm

Take a deep breath.
Relax.
You'll be fine.

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butyourhonor
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Re: Disheartened by LSAC's Grade Conversion.

Postby butyourhonor » Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:45 pm

Take a deep breath.
Relax.
You'll be fine.


BUT WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

Also, already used the calculators. It appears I'm on the fence.

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bernaldiaz
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Re: Disheartened by LSAC's Grade Conversion.

Postby bernaldiaz » Thu Sep 06, 2012 2:24 am

http://myLSN.info/dispresults.php?sk=xkk2v

Well get that high LSAT first, but from the data above, looks like you're out at HYS (although with a slight chance at Harvard) and in everywhere else

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Triveal
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Re: Disheartened by LSAC's Grade Conversion.

Postby Triveal » Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:59 am

My guess would be a decent shot, though probably off WL, with a 176-177 or higher. YS are probably not options

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Detrox
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Re: Disheartened by LSAC's Grade Conversion.

Postby Detrox » Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:20 pm

Former numbers twin. Unless URM, you will not get Harvard. Columbia is a fair shot but not a sure thing. NYU likely. Berkeley unlikely. Georgetown & Cornell should be locks.

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butyourhonor
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Re: Disheartened by LSAC's Grade Conversion.

Postby butyourhonor » Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:39 pm

Well get that high LSAT first, but from the data above, looks like you're out at HYS (although with a slight chance at Harvard) and in everywhere else


Thank you! I'm not applying to YS - neither of them seemed liked a good fit, which is convenient because I don't really have a shot at either anyway.

Re: "slight chance at Harvard". That seems like a little more than a slight chance, doesn't it? The odds are actually better than I was expecting. Hopefully my personal statement and extra-curricular activities/life experience can push me into that margin. Does anyone happen to know how many people tend to get in off the WL? And shouldn't I view the "rejected with better" number as somewhat encouraging?

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butyourhonor
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Re: Disheartened by LSAC's Grade Conversion.

Postby butyourhonor » Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:42 pm

Former numbers twin. Unless URM, you will not get Harvard. Columbia is a fair shot but not a sure thing. NYU likely. Berkeley unlikely. Georgetown & Cornell should be locks.


So am I right in assuming that Harvard weights your LSAC GPA more heavily than they do your most recent GPA? Because if it were going off of that, I think I'd have a great chance. I know; most people are frustrated by the conversion.


May I ask why you think Berkeley is unlikely, with this - 3.62-3.88, 164-169 - as their 2012 range? It's not a top choice, but I'm curious. My top choices are Harvard and Columbia.

Also, I'm seeing that about 20 - 35 % got into Harvard in 2012 with my stats, assuming I don't go below a 175 on the actual test.

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butyourhonor
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Re: Disheartened by LSAC's Grade Conversion.

Postby butyourhonor » Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:57 pm

One more question: I was initially considering ED (somewhere; most likely Harvard or Columbia), but figure I can raise my GPA to the point where my LSAC GPA is a 3.7 (even though my UC GPA is still way higher; grrrr). Thoughts? Clearly I'm not a strong enough applicant for Harvard's ED, though is there an advantage to getting in through the WL this way? Columbia's?

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bernaldiaz
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Re: Disheartened by LSAC's Grade Conversion.

Postby bernaldiaz » Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:43 pm

butyourhonor wrote:
Former numbers twin. Unless URM, you will not get Harvard. Columbia is a fair shot but not a sure thing. NYU likely. Berkeley unlikely. Georgetown & Cornell should be locks.


So am I right in assuming that Harvard weights your LSAC GPA more heavily than they do your most recent GPA? Because if it were going off of that, I think I'd have a great chance. I know; most people are frustrated by the conversion.


May I ask why you think Berkeley is unlikely, with this - 3.62-3.88, 164-169 - as their 2012 range? It's not a top choice, but I'm curious. My top choices are Harvard and Columbia.

Also, I'm seeing that about 20 - 35 % got into Harvard in 2012 with my stats, assuming I don't go below a 175 on the actual test.


Your LSAC GPA is the ONLY GPA that will matter and it ain't even close. You will be treated as a 3.65/ 17X. The 3.8 won't even enter the discussion (assuming TLS logic is true.) Really, don't get too excited about your shot at Harvard- unless you think that 20% chance is good.

Jaytray
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Re: Disheartened by LSAC's Grade Conversion.

Postby Jaytray » Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:18 pm

I graduated with a higher GPA from a much more prestigious/academically rigorous UC and didn't score lower than a 173 on the 10 PTs I took before my most recent game day and still ended up with a 167. Your LSAT score isn't real until it's real and like most people you will probably score below your PT average. Just study your butt off between now and then and don't worry about any of these hypotheticals. It's a waste or precious time and brainpower than should be spent learning the LSAT.

Also, don't assume that your softs are anything special. Objectively speaking they sound on the mediocre to weak side (especially for top schools). No one has ever had a weak letter of rec or personal statement, everybody thinks their total package is "kick ass." This is silly and to think that your softs or upward grade trends or shiny application or whatever is going to give you a boost is just going to set yourself up for disappointment unless you truly are one of those rare special snowflakes. Just assume that your GPA and LSAT are all that matters and get those as high as you can.

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CyanIdes Of March
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Re: Disheartened by LSAC's Grade Conversion.

Postby CyanIdes Of March » Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:57 pm

Seems Harvard is very unlikely by all predictive sources (predictor, numbers, etc). You may have awesome softs and an awesome LSAT and maybe they'll decide the GPA hit is worth it, but it seems unlikely. You have to remember for the calculators a good portion of the bottom percentile are people with URM boost.

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butyourhonor
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Re: Disheartened by LSAC's Grade Conversion.

Postby butyourhonor » Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:22 am

than a 173 on the 10 PTs I took before my most recent game day and still ended up with a 167.

I understand that you're encouraging me to not get too confident, but I don't agree that ours are necessarily comparable situations. I take roughly three tests a day, sometimes two, and have scored no lower than a 176 for the past three weeks. That's 57 tests if I took three per day on weekdays and two per day on Saturday and Sunday, which is what I did. I hope it doesn't sound like I'm boasting; I'm just proud of the fact that I've almost forgone even basic hygiene (temporarily) in pursuit of a ridiculous score on the LSAT. Starting next week, I will begin to take the test at the time I'll be taking it in October, possibly in a public space, and will imitate test conditions to the best of my abilities.

I graduated with a higher GPA from a much more prestigious/academically rigorous UC


If only the LSAC-converted number is considered, I fail to see how the merit of one's UC is of any importance. As I already mentioned, my UC GPA is very good; it's my good-but-not-great community college GPA that is bringing down my LSAC GPA. Regardless, it's very likely that my next round of grades will boost all of this quite a bit (see below).

Also, don't assume that your softs are anything special. Objectively speaking they sound on the mediocre to weak side (especially for top schools).


I understand the sentiment, but I stand by my conviction that they are. Objectively! I graduated high school at age 16 (through a special program) and worked a fascinating job that involved a lot of traveling until I returned to school (I am now about to turn 25). And as I indicated by the "etc.", those are only a small sample of my softs, the very basics, and disclude any special designations that I've received within those areas.

Just assume that your GPA and LSAT are all that matters and get those as high as you can.


Yes, I absolutely agree that these are the most important factors. The reason I am so heavily considering the other factors is that I seem to be on the edge. But if I manage to pull A's/A+'s in the 6 classes I'm taking next quarter, my GPA will put me in a much more comfortable range.

unless you truly are one of those rare special snowflakes


Hopefully.

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butyourhonor
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Re: Disheartened by LSAC's Grade Conversion.

Postby butyourhonor » Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:26 am

You have to remember for the calculators a good portion of the bottom percentile are people with URM boost.


It seemed that about a quarter to one half of them were. I'm something like 1/16th Spanish*; does that count?

Anyway, If I can secure A's and A+'s on my next six classes, my GPA should more in range. Thanks for your response! I'll apply to Harvard as my reach, and just try like hell to up my GPA as much as possible this semester and get my LSAT score as close to 180 as is possible on the exam day. Otherwise, I'll cross my fingers for Columbia or NYU.

*I'm not being serious about asking whether or not this counts.

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UtilityMonster
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Re: Disheartened by LSAC's Grade Conversion.

Postby UtilityMonster » Sat Sep 08, 2012 4:55 pm

OP is obnoxious. I sincerely hope we do not wind up at the same law school.

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butyourhonor
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Re: Disheartened by LSAC's Grade Conversion.

Postby butyourhonor » Sat Sep 08, 2012 6:49 pm

OP is obnoxious. I sincerely hope we do not wind up at the same law school.


I'd hope it wouldn't affect your education too much. Besides, if you choose Yale or Stanford there isn't really a chance of that happening (and with your stats, you're likely to get into both.) So it's not like I'll be takin' yer job or anything.

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bernaldiaz
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Re: Disheartened by LSAC's Grade Conversion.

Postby bernaldiaz » Sun Sep 09, 2012 4:06 pm

butyourhonor wrote:
OP is obnoxious. I sincerely hope we do not wind up at the same law school.


I'd hope it wouldn't affect your education too much. Besides, if you choose Yale or Stanford there isn't really a chance of that happening (and with your stats, you're likely to get into both.) So it's not like I'll be takin' yer job or anything.


No. Just stop.

ood
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Re: Disheartened by LSAC's Grade Conversion.

Postby ood » Sun Sep 09, 2012 8:27 pm

butyourhonor wrote:So it's not like I'll be takin' yer job or anything.

Jerb, not job :/

UtilityMonster wrote:OP is obnoxious. I sincerely hope we do not wind up at the same law school.

+1

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butyourhonor
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Re: Disheartened by LSAC's Grade Conversion.

Postby butyourhonor » Mon Sep 10, 2012 5:42 pm

Things would go a lot better if you didn't argue with the people whom you asked for help.


To be fair, I only argued with the guy who asserted that his UC was much more academically rigorous than mine (it probably is), and I only did that because because based on the advice of everyone else in this thread, which I'm heeding (really), the academic rigor of your UC has no bearing on your LSDGPA and consequently, your chances at a particular school. Okay, I'm kind of doing it again.

If you stats are true your going to get a few T7s and big money from 7-14. Smile, study, succeed.


Thank you. I appreciate this. See below.

Your new here, be humble, be nice. This place can be really helpfully for people like us but if your not you'll soon find that all your questions are met with skeptisim and sarcasm.


Also very kind, and probably true. On the internet, I'm sometimes a train-wreck.

Jaytray
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Re: Disheartened by LSAC's Grade Conversion.

Postby Jaytray » Mon Sep 10, 2012 7:42 pm

Point was people just as smart as you if not more don't always perform up to their expectations on the real LSAT. Chickens before they are hatched, etc. Just focus on what you can control and stop worrying about hypotheticals. Come back with a real LSAT score and we can tell you what your chances are, otherwise this is all just a waste of everyone's time.

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butyourhonor
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Re: Disheartened by LSAC's Grade Conversion.

Postby butyourhonor » Tue Sep 11, 2012 4:01 am

Point was people just as smart as you if not more don't always perform up to their expectations on the real LSAT. Chickens before they are hatched, etc. Just focus on what you can control and stop worrying about hypotheticals. Come back with a real LSAT score and we can tell you what your chances are, otherwise this is all just a waste of everyone's time.


Clarified. Thanks.

0heL
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Re: Disheartened by LSAC's Grade Conversion.

Postby 0heL » Tue Sep 11, 2012 2:26 pm

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Last edited by 0heL on Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

mr.hands
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Re: Disheartened by LSAC's Grade Conversion.

Postby mr.hands » Tue Sep 11, 2012 2:50 pm

Damn, relax. Go have a beer.

You're probably out at the top 3. In at most below that

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butyourhonor
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Re: Disheartened by LSAC's Grade Conversion.

Postby butyourhonor » Tue Sep 11, 2012 2:59 pm

i feel like most people in Harvard Law would have OP's personality....except with better softs


I feel like most people at Harvard Law have your ability to so totally get people on the internet.

(Reddit?)

Damn, relax. Go have a beer.


I have an eighteen pack of shitty beer that I'll probably drink later. Probably not all at once.

You're probably out at the top 3. In at most below that


Thanks. Refocusing on Columbia and using Harvard as my reach.




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