Extreme Splitter + Non-Traditional

Not sure where your numbers will get you? Dying to know where you stand? Come have your palms read by your fellow posters!
bigvinny
Posts: 47
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:50 am

Re: Extreme Splitter + Non-Traditional

Postby bigvinny » Sat Aug 18, 2012 2:49 pm

JCFindley wrote:
bigvinny wrote:
spleenworship wrote:Enjoy a T14 (even potentially HYS) with a small scholly or a t1 with full ride. Get those waivers and apply broadly.


Seriously? And I saw some talk about Berkeley, NYU, etc.

No way. Yes, he's a URM with military experience, but he has a terrible gpa. At the very least, no way he's getting into HYS and most likely not even CCN. He'll be lucky to get a hit in the T10 (and maybe even the T14).


Vinny, Vinny, Vinny......

Unless you are in fact an AA male and were an Army Captain and had the same GPA and LSAT OR you are an admissions committee member then you have no idea of what you type. Hell, if it's the latter you can only speak for your school and you still have no clue how the others will go.

No one here has said that he is a lock anywhere but what we have said is that he has a shot everywhere. It all depends on how each specific admissions committee views it. He should indeed apply anywhere that he wants to go because there is not a single person on TLS that can give him good advice as to how each school will view his app.

Further more, we really don't know what he did in the Army aside from he was an O for 7 years and presumably a Captain. (That much alone means he was likely in some sort of leadership position.) For all we know he might have been one of those tab wearing super soldiers or a greenie beanie or Delta spending years in hostile sandy places. Heck, he might even have one of these. Regardless, being an Army Captain does count for something even if he was in charge of the mess hall.

So, Vinny Bag of Donuts, what basis are you using to give your expert opinion here?


Common sense. Law schools MOSTLY care about the numbers, especially the ones with hard gpa floors (HYS, Boalt). His gpa is not mildly out of reach, but WAYYYY out of reach. Sure, maybe he was a Medal of Honor winner that went to the moon and cured cancer, but, at the end of the day, his gpa sucks and that will ruin the school's statistics. That's what REALLY matters to the schools: the bottom line.

Bumi
Posts: 947
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 4:57 pm

Re: Extreme Splitter + Non-Traditional

Postby Bumi » Sat Aug 18, 2012 2:59 pm

Schools don't report averages or minimums. A gpa that low will have zero impact on a school's statistics. URM status, on the other hand, absolutely makes a difference in a school's statistics.

People with his stats go to Northwestern right now without even being URM.

bigvinny
Posts: 47
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:50 am

Re: Extreme Splitter + Non-Traditional

Postby bigvinny » Sat Aug 18, 2012 3:41 pm

Bumi wrote:Schools don't report averages or minimums. A gpa that low will have zero impact on a school's statistics.


The numbers absolutely do matter the most. How do you think the US News does it's rankings? Ranking and reputation is what matters most as far as the school's prestige.

Yes, URM matters. BUT there will most likely be more URMs with a better gpa and maybe a slightly worse LSAT (in the 170s). From a school's perspective, a 173 LSAT and a 3.8 gpa are better than a 178 LSAT and a 2.4 gpa.

So while the op should definitely still apply, expecting an acceptance letter from Yale might be a bit overly optimistic.

slowboat
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 1:23 pm

Re: Extreme Splitter + Non-Traditional

Postby slowboat » Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:10 pm

bigvinny wrote:Sure, maybe he was a Medal of Honor winner that went to the moon and cured cancer, but, at the end of the day, his gpa sucks and that will ruin the school's statistics.


http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/how-to-find-the-mean-and-median-in-quantitative-da.html

User avatar
soj
Posts: 7735
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 11:10 pm

Re: Extreme Splitter + Non-Traditional

Postby soj » Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:12 pm

bigvinny wrote:
Bumi wrote:Schools don't report averages or minimums. A gpa that low will have zero impact on a school's statistics.


The numbers absolutely do matter the most. How do you think the US News does it's rankings? Ranking and reputation is what matters most as far as the school's prestige.

Yes, URM matters. BUT there will most likely be more URMs with a better gpa and maybe a slightly worse LSAT (in the 170s). From a school's perspective, a 173 LSAT and a 3.8 gpa are better than a 178 LSAT and a 2.4 gpa.

So while the op should definitely still apply, expecting an acceptance letter from Yale might be a bit overly optimistic.

1) Look up the definition of medians. Rankings are not the reason schools prefer moderate splitters to extreme splitters. Schools prefer moderate splitters because they're apparently more qualified and probably less lazy than extreme splitters.
2) A 170+/3.8 URM will sweep. Even HYS can't fill their URM classes with 170+/3.8s. There aren't enough of those to go around, so most schools will have to resort to splitters.
3) Yale is unrealistic; multiple T14 acceptances are not.

User avatar
JCFindley
Posts: 1283
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:19 pm

Re: Extreme Splitter + Non-Traditional

Postby JCFindley » Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:20 pm

bigvinny wrote:
Bumi wrote:Schools don't report averages or minimums. A gpa that low will have zero impact on a school's statistics.


The numbers absolutely do matter the most. How do you think the US News does it's rankings? Ranking and reputation is what matters most as far as the school's prestige.

Yes, URM matters. BUT there will most likely be more URMs with a better gpa and maybe a slightly worse LSAT (in the 170s). From a school's perspective, a 173 LSAT and a 3.8 gpa are better than a 178 LSAT and a 2.4 gpa.

So while the op should definitely still apply, expecting an acceptance letter from Yale might be a bit overly optimistic.


Alright junior, here is what REALLY matters to USN

Rep, 40%
Selectivity, 25%
Placement, 20%
Faculty Resources, 15%

Technically, this means numbers are NOT what matters most as they do not count as much as rep or as much as faculty resources and placement combined.

Of that selectivity GPA counts for 40% of the 25% so it counts for 10% of the overall "grade." Keep in mind, a single individual's portion of that would depend on the number of students but lets just say it is a low 100. That means his GPA counts for .01 of 10% or a whopping .1 percent assuming they actually report it as you say.

Now, he probably makes up for that because a URM veteran is FAR more likely than a KJD to get a job so he will HELP that number and the LSAT score itself which is 12.5%. This is based purely on the "system."

That goes out the window in extreme examples. Yes, numbers "usually" matter more than anything else but not always.

The fact of the matter is the adcom can admit anyone they want to admit. And they can ding someone with a 4.0/180. We did not say he should expect to be admitted to Yale, but that he should apply and see what happens. Yale may be at the extreme but outside of YHS he has a REAL shot.

On that note, I am done arguing with someone that is simply regurgitating TLS conventional wisdom and MYLSN predictor numbers with absolutely no clue that there are exceptions for every "generality" on both.

User avatar
IAFG
Posts: 6665
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:26 pm

Re: Extreme Splitter + Non-Traditional

Postby IAFG » Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:22 pm

slowboat wrote:
bigvinny wrote:Sure, maybe he was a Medal of Honor winner that went to the moon and cured cancer, but, at the end of the day, his gpa sucks and that will ruin the school's statistics.


http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/how-to-find-the-mean-and-median-in-quantitative-da.html

You should be required to take a stats quiz before posting on TLS.

And there is a gulf between "numbers do matter the most" and "accepting a 2.4 would ruin the school's statistics."

It has been said before, and I believe, that there are two tracks in admissions: URMs and everyone else. For "everyone else," numbers are pretty much the only thing (particularly now that apps are down and those 17Xs are harder to come by). For URMs, they're merely incredibly important.

User avatar
Nova
Posts: 9116
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:55 pm

Re: Extreme Splitter + Non-Traditional

Postby Nova » Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:55 pm

bigvinny wrote: his gpa sucks and that will ruin the school's statistics. That's what REALLY matters to the schools: the bottom line.

No. He will help their stats.

Above median LSAT + URM = Win
Above median LSAT + AA male = Big Win

Yes, URM matters. BUT there will most likely be more URMs with a better gpa and maybe a slightly worse LSAT (in the 170s). From a school's perspective, a 173 LSAT and a 3.8 gpa are better than a 178 LSAT and a 2.4 gpa.


You are seriously lacking context. Less than .01% of test takers are AA males who score above 170.

User avatar
spleenworship
Posts: 4421
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 11:08 pm

Re: Extreme Splitter + Non-Traditional

Postby spleenworship » Sat Aug 18, 2012 7:58 pm

Nova wrote:You are seriously lacking context. Less than .01% of test takers are AA males who score above 170.




BING BING BING BING BING! We have a winnah!

Seriously. Even HYS are going to consider him. I bet Asha is drooling a little now already to see his app. She might not take him, but that LSAT plus AA male means she at least wants to take a look, for sure. The military thing doesn't hurt either, even somewhere as liberal as Yale.

Nash
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2012 4:52 pm

Re: Extreme Splitter + Non-Traditional

Postby Nash » Sun Aug 19, 2012 10:39 pm

Thanks for all of the responses, everyone! I really appreciate it!

This thread really opened my eyes to possibilities that I hadn't considered before.




Return to “What are my chances?”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: addie1412 and 5 guests