Extreme Splitter + Non-Traditional

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Nash
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Extreme Splitter + Non-Traditional

Postby Nash » Fri Aug 17, 2012 5:24 pm

Hey TLS!

Just came here looking for some advice on where I should apply. I originally thought that I would be lucky to get into a T1 at all, but, after looking around the threads here, it seems that I might be able to do better?

Anyway, my stats:

UG GPA: 2.4
LSAT: 178
URM (AA Male)
Army officer for 7 years

Any advice would be greatly appreciated! Thank you all in advance :-)

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soj
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Re: Extreme Splitter + Non-Traditional

Postby soj » Fri Aug 17, 2012 5:52 pm

I think at least some T14 schools will relax their GPA floors to accept you given your military experience and URM status. If you can get funding through the Yellow Ribbon Program, you might want to ED.

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hichvichwoh
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Re: Extreme Splitter + Non-Traditional

Postby hichvichwoh » Fri Aug 17, 2012 6:25 pm

Yeah, thinking you'd be lucky to get into any T1 is definitely underestimating yourself. Honestly, given your unique situation it might be better to just blanket the t14 and see who's the most flexible about that GPA.

bigvinny
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Re: Extreme Splitter + Non-Traditional

Postby bigvinny » Fri Aug 17, 2012 6:52 pm

Your only real shot in the T20 is Northwestern.

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Nova
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Re: Extreme Splitter + Non-Traditional

Postby Nova » Fri Aug 17, 2012 8:02 pm

Vinny is 100% wrong (again).

You are a very special applicant. You are in the 99.99th percentile of AA males. Despite your GPA, you should expect near full rides outside the T18 and several acceptances to T14s. Your best T14 bets are Georgetown, Cornell, and Northwestern. I would not be suprised If you were accepted to a school like NYU.

bigvinny
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Re: Extreme Splitter + Non-Traditional

Postby bigvinny » Fri Aug 17, 2012 8:10 pm

How am I wrong? Check MyLSN if you don't believe me.

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top30man
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Re: Extreme Splitter + Non-Traditional

Postby top30man » Fri Aug 17, 2012 8:14 pm

bigvinny wrote:How am I wrong? Check MyLSN if you don't believe me.

There will not be a significant AA sample. HTH.

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Nova
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Re: Extreme Splitter + Non-Traditional

Postby Nova » Fri Aug 17, 2012 8:21 pm

Only about 10 AA males score 170+ every year. OP is certainly near the top of that list. Possibly number 1 or 2.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/archives ... 14&t=30912

Nash
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Re: Extreme Splitter + Non-Traditional

Postby Nash » Fri Aug 17, 2012 8:28 pm

Nova wrote:Only about 10 AA males score 170+ every year. OP is certainly near the top of that list. Possibly number 1 or 2.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/archives ... 14&t=30912


Wow thanks! I didn't realize that there were few so few. Now, I REALLY wish I cared more about school in undergrad. :roll:

Nash
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Re: Extreme Splitter + Non-Traditional

Postby Nash » Fri Aug 17, 2012 8:30 pm

Nova wrote:Vinny is 100% wrong (again).

You are a very special applicant. You are in the 99.99th percentile of AA males. Despite your GPA, you should expect near full rides outside the T18 and several acceptances to T14s. Your best T14 bets are Georgetown, Cornell, and Northwestern. I would not be suprised If you were accepted to a school like NYU.


Would you suggest EDing to NYU in this case, as one poster suggested? Or just applying broadly and see what I get?

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hichvichwoh
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Re: Extreme Splitter + Non-Traditional

Postby hichvichwoh » Fri Aug 17, 2012 8:39 pm

Nash wrote:
Nova wrote:Vinny is 100% wrong (again).

You are a very special applicant. You are in the 99.99th percentile of AA males. Despite your GPA, you should expect near full rides outside the T18 and several acceptances to T14s. Your best T14 bets are Georgetown, Cornell, and Northwestern. I would not be suprised If you were accepted to a school like NYU.


Would you suggest EDing to NYU in this case, as one poster suggested? Or just applying broadly and see what I get?


It depends on what you want. Do you want to attend the best school you can get into and pay sticker? or do you want to apply to more schools and probably receive $ from some places?

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Nova
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Re: Extreme Splitter + Non-Traditional

Postby Nova » Fri Aug 17, 2012 9:01 pm

Nash wrote:Now, I REALLY wish I cared more about school in undergrad.

Welcome to the URM splitter club :mrgreen:
hichvichwoh wrote: It depends on what you want

+1

A lot depends on your career goals. Also, a lot depends on your military benifits and financial situation.

NYUs full tuition cost of attendance is estimated at 280k for the class of 2016.

If you have to finance most of the full cost with debt, then you pretty much need biglaw to pay it off comfotably. Or you could LARP it, and go into the private sector. If you arent dying to work in biglaw, or are not passionate about working in the public sector, taking on that much debt is probably not the best plan.

Here is a good read about the GI bill/Yellow Ribbon Program & law school for vets,
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=187630

albanach
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Re: Extreme Splitter + Non-Traditional

Postby albanach » Fri Aug 17, 2012 9:19 pm

Nova wrote:
Nash wrote:Now, I REALLY wish I cared more about school in undergrad.

Welcome to the URM splitter club :mrgreen:
hichvichwoh wrote: It depends on what you want

+1

A lot depends on your career goals. Also, a lot depends on your military benifits.

NYUs full tuition cost of attendance is estimated at 280k for the class of 2016.

If you have to take out 150k+ debt, youll pretty much NEED biglaw to reasonably pay that off, unless you want to do LARP and work in the public sector.

Here is a good read about the GI bill/Yellow Ribbon Program & law school for vets,
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=187630


This is good advice. I think you have a real prospect of good money from good schools. Unless you can get funding thanks to your service or you're comfortable with that significant debt load, I'd shop around the T14 for money.

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JCFindley
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Re: Extreme Splitter + Non-Traditional

Postby JCFindley » Fri Aug 17, 2012 9:21 pm

Nova wrote:
Nash wrote:Now, I REALLY wish I cared more about school in undergrad.

Welcome to the URM splitter club :mrgreen:
hichvichwoh wrote: It depends on what you want

+1

A lot depends on your career goals. Also, a lot depends on your military benifits and financial situation.

NYUs full tuition cost of attendance is estimated at 280k for the class of 2016.

If you have to finance most of the full cost with debt, then you pretty much need biglaw to pay it off comfotably. Or you could LARP it, and go into the private sector. If you arent dying to work in biglaw, or are not passionate about working in the public sector, taking on that much debt is probably not the best plan.

Here is a good read about the GI bill/Yellow Ribbon Program & law school for vets,
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=187630


Do you have the full Post 911 GI Bill available to you?

That could make a HUGE difference in your strategy as there are a bunch of schools you can attend 100% free if you have it.

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soj
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Re: Extreme Splitter + Non-Traditional

Postby soj » Fri Aug 17, 2012 9:34 pm

Even with a sub-3.0, I'd be surprised if UVA ED doesn't get him in. NYU ED very occasionally dips below 3.0 for even non-URMs (I remember one particular 2.9/179 non-URM legacy last year), so NYU ED should be a possibility, too. NU RD, definitely.

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JCFindley
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Re: Extreme Splitter + Non-Traditional

Postby JCFindley » Fri Aug 17, 2012 9:35 pm

Nova wrote:Vinny is 100% wrong (again).

You are a very special applicant. You are in the 99.99th percentile of AA males. Despite your GPA, you should expect near full rides outside the T18 and several acceptances to T14s. Your best T14 bets are Georgetown, Cornell, and Northwestern. I would not be suprised If you were accepted to a school like NYU.


Let me add a little to this.

One, Vinny is WAY wrong regardless of LSN because you are SO far outside of the averages that the predictors will not work for you. Between the URM, military and that 178 the computers will simply not work. I was different enough where they were WAY off on my cycle as well so I know for a fact they are not so good when you are an extreme applicant.

A few of the T-14s that are very pro military are Michigan and Cornell for sure, I hear that Penn, UVA and Boalt also like military. HLS offers 50 YRP slots that will end up covering 100% tuition so that indicates that they appreciate vets to me as well. Outside the T-14 Fordham is very pro military as are quite a few others.

Nash
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Re: Extreme Splitter + Non-Traditional

Postby Nash » Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:36 pm

First, I have to thank all of you guys for the speed and quality of your responses! I really appreciate it :-)

hichvichwoh wrote:It depends on what you want. Do you want to attend the best school you can get into and pay sticker? or do you want to apply to more schools and probably receive $ from some places?


That's a good point. Knowing my personality and how debt averse I am, I would rather go to a slightly worse school and pay less for it, if it came down to that.

Nova wrote:A lot depends on your career goals. Also, a lot depends on your military benifits and financial situation.

NYUs full tuition cost of attendance is estimated at 280k for the class of 2016.

If you have to finance most of the full cost with debt, then you pretty much need biglaw to pay it off comfotably. Or you could LARP it, and go into the private sector. If you arent dying to work in biglaw, or are not passionate about working in the public sector, taking on that much debt is probably not the best plan.

Here is a good read about the GI bill/Yellow Ribbon Program & law school for vets,
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=187630


I'd VERY MUCH like to work in biglaw. If that doesn't happen, I'll live, but that is my ultimate goal.

And thanks for the link! I checked it out and definitely learned a lot about my options.

JCFindley wrote:Do you have the full Post 911 GI Bill available to you?

That could make a HUGE difference in your strategy as there are a bunch of schools you can attend 100% free if you have it.


Yes, I do. I haven't used a penny of the GI Bill yet.

JCFindley wrote:Let me add a little to this.

One, Vinny is WAY wrong regardless of LSN because you are SO far outside of the averages that the predictors will not work for you. Between the URM, military and that 178 the computers will simply not work. I was different enough where they were WAY off on my cycle as well so I know for a fact they are not so good when you are an extreme applicant.


Definitely true. I already looked at both LSN and MyLSNinfo before posting and couldn't find any situation that matched mine really. I guess that makes me unique! (My mom always told me I was special :mrgreen: )

JCFindley wrote: A few of the T-14s that are very pro military are Michigan and Cornell for sure, I hear that Penn, UVA and Boalt also like military. HLS offers 50 YRP slots that will end up covering 100% tuition so that indicates that they appreciate vets to me as well. Outside the T-14 Fordham is very pro military as are quite a few others.


Interesting that you mention this. I've been living in California for 5 years. So with the GI Bill, I could potentially go to Boalt for free (well, that's based on my very limited understanding of financial matters). But I never really considered them because I remember reading somewhere that they are very strict with their gpa requirements and that they value gpa over LSAT. I also heard that they have a gpa floor around 3.6. Would my military experience be able to overcome that?

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JCFindley
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Re: Extreme Splitter + Non-Traditional

Postby JCFindley » Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:45 pm

First, you would attend Boalt for free. UCLA is not a bad option there either. (Not sure if USC is a state school and haven't looked at their YRP so I just don't know on that one.)

Within the T-14, you can attend Harvard,Cornell and Michigan for free. There may be more but haven't looked them up yet. I eventually will and add it to the other thread.

Concerning if Boalt would really have the GPA floor in your situation I do not know but if that is your top choice the only way to find out is to apply. Worst case it costs you an app fee. According to the predictors I had virtually zero chance to get into Fordham and I was planning a retake but I got in even applying the day before the app window closed.

Some schools will ding you but others will accept you and with some money BUT since you have the military benefits in tact you don't have to rely on scholarships.

My advice is to apply ANYWHERE you would like to attend, especially those schools that are vet friendly and will cover your costs regardless of merit $$$.

Good luck.

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soj
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Re: Extreme Splitter + Non-Traditional

Postby soj » Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:45 pm

Apply to Berkeley.

Nash
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Re: Extreme Splitter + Non-Traditional

Postby Nash » Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:52 pm

JCFindley wrote:First, you would attend Boalt for free. UCLA is not a bad option there either. (Not sure if USC is a state school and haven't looked at their YRP so I just don't know on that one.)

Within the T-14, you can attend Harvard,Cornell and Michigan for free. There may be more but haven't looked them up yet. I eventually will and add it to the other thread.

Concerning if Boalt would really have the GPA floor in your situation I do not know but if that is your top choice the only way to find out is to apply. Worst case it costs you an app fee. According to the predictors I had virtually zero chance to get into Fordham and I was planning a retake but I got in even applying the day before the app window closed.

Some schools will ding you but others will accept you and with some money BUT since you have the military benefits in tact you don't have to rely on scholarships.

My advice is to apply ANYWHERE you would like to attend, especially those schools that are vet friendly and will cover your costs regardless of merit $$$.

Good luck.


Thanks for the great advice and the inspiration, brother! Best of luck at Fordham!

soj wrote:Apply to Berkeley.


Will do :)

karich
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Re: Extreme Splitter + Non-Traditional

Postby karich » Sat Aug 18, 2012 11:24 am

.
Last edited by karich on Wed Jun 18, 2014 4:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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spleenworship
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Re: Extreme Splitter + Non-Traditional

Postby spleenworship » Sat Aug 18, 2012 11:54 am

Enjoy a T14 (even potentially HYS) with a small scholly or a t1 with full ride. Get those waivers and apply broadly.

bigvinny
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Re: Extreme Splitter + Non-Traditional

Postby bigvinny » Sat Aug 18, 2012 2:05 pm

spleenworship wrote:Enjoy a T14 (even potentially HYS) with a small scholly or a t1 with full ride. Get those waivers and apply broadly.


Seriously? And I saw some talk about Berkeley, NYU, etc.

No way. Yes, he's a URM with military experience, but he has a terrible gpa. At the very least, no way he's getting into HYS and most likely not even CCN. He'll be lucky to get a hit in the T10 (and maybe even the T14).

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JCFindley
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Re: Extreme Splitter + Non-Traditional

Postby JCFindley » Sat Aug 18, 2012 2:30 pm

bigvinny wrote:
spleenworship wrote:Enjoy a T14 (even potentially HYS) with a small scholly or a t1 with full ride. Get those waivers and apply broadly.


Seriously? And I saw some talk about Berkeley, NYU, etc.

No way. Yes, he's a URM with military experience, but he has a terrible gpa. At the very least, no way he's getting into HYS and most likely not even CCN. He'll be lucky to get a hit in the T10 (and maybe even the T14).


Vinny, Vinny, Vinny......

Unless you are in fact an AA male and were an Army Captain and had the same GPA and LSAT OR you are an admissions committee member then you have no idea of what you type. Hell, if it's the latter you can only speak for your school and you still have no clue how the others will go.

No one here has said that he is a lock anywhere but what we have said is that he has a shot everywhere. It all depends on how each specific admissions committee views it. He should indeed apply anywhere that he wants to go because there is not a single person on TLS that can give him good advice as to how each school will view his app.

Further more, we really don't know what he did in the Army aside from he was an O for 7 years and presumably a Captain. (That much alone means he was likely in some sort of leadership position.) For all we know he might have been one of those tab wearing super soldiers or a greenie beanie or Delta spending years in hostile sandy places. Heck, he might even have one of these. Regardless, being an Army Captain does count for something even if he was in charge of the mess hall.

Image

So, Vinny Bag of Donuts, what basis are you using to give your expert opinion here?

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IAFG
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Re: Extreme Splitter + Non-Traditional

Postby IAFG » Sat Aug 18, 2012 2:40 pm

It is entirely possible you'll get a scholarship at a school with great biglaw prospects. But. If you don't, the fear of debt/risk could completely blow your shot at a large firm. Remember that a free JD that didn't get you biglaw isn't a great use of 3 years.




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