Accomplished scientist that wants to go to law school

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CarlyIN
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Accomplished scientist that wants to go to law school

Postby CarlyIN » Wed Aug 15, 2012 2:44 pm

Just looking for opinions...

I have a B.S. in Biology (3.3 GPA), and I have an M.S. in Microbiology (3.9 GPA). I have several first author publications in both research and education journals based upon my own original research. While in grad school, I received the most competitive fellowship in country from the NSF (it is a big deal in the science world...likely not in the law world :? ) I have worked for one year as a faculty member at a well-known private university in the Midwest (once again, big deal in the science world...).

I am interested in patent law...mostly because science doesn't pay well and is highly competitive. My practice LSAT scores so far (based on two exams!) is a 159. I suspect that I can get that up to the mid-160s at least (taking LSAT in October).

I am worried that my CV reads science, and that I will be overlooked! :shock:

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20130312
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Re: Accomplished scientist that wants to go to law school

Postby 20130312 » Wed Aug 15, 2012 2:47 pm

Why law?

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Samara
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Re: Accomplished scientist that wants to go to law school

Postby Samara » Wed Aug 15, 2012 2:48 pm

You should be a lot more worried about your LSAT than your CV. With that 3.3, you will need a 170+ to get into a T14 school. Your science accomplishments sound like a big deal, but as you guess, won't translate well to law school admissions. You will likely see a small boost and you won't be "overlooked." There are lots of engineers and scientists with low UG GPAs at top law schools, especially Northwestern. What exactly is your concern?

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skw
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Re: Accomplished scientist that wants to go to law school

Postby skw » Wed Aug 15, 2012 2:56 pm

CarlyIN wrote:Just looking for opinions...

I have a B.S. in Biology (3.3 GPA), and I have an M.S. in Microbiology (3.9 GPA). I have several first author publications in both research and education journals based upon my own original research. While in grad school, I received the most competitive fellowship in country from the NSF (it is a big deal in the science world...likely not in the law world :? ) I have worked for one year as a faculty member at a well-known private university in the Midwest (once again, big deal in the science world...).

I am interested in patent law...mostly because science doesn't pay well and is highly competitive. My practice LSAT scores so far (based on two exams!) is a 159. I suspect that I can get that up to the mid-160s at least (taking LSAT in October).

I am worried that my CV reads science, and that I will be overlooked! :shock:


I think law school sounds like a reasonable path for you, but be aware that your 3.3 undergrad GPA is what counts for LS admissions because that is what US News considers when ranking schools. I would probably advise that you speak with some patent attorneys about what it is like to prosecute patents day to day. I also have a science background and took and passed the patent bar before starting LS. I did a 1L SA this summer and had a chance to do some patent prosecution work and I did not like it at all. Fortunately, I found other areas I like a lot (either litigation, or possibly FDA regulatory work), but going to LS, gunning for patent law and then coming out to find that you hate it would be very bad. On the other hand, you sound into the hard science thing, so you might really enjoy patent prosecution -- I'd just advise talking to some real world patent attorneys to try and get a handle on what it is like before making a decision.

If you can get your LSAT to the mid-160s, you should be able to get into mid T1 school. Scholly money begins to appear in the upper 160s to lower 170s, but since your undergrad GPA is low-ish (only low-ish for for LS admissions -- a 3.3 is normally considered fine), scholly money could be hit or miss. If you are sure about patent law and know where you want to live, there is no need to waste $ on a top 14 school IMO. Also, be aware that many scientists are in the same boat as you and there will be lots with PhDs vying for the same jobs you'll be after. This will be less of a problem for you with your Masters and publications than it was for me because I just have a BS, but it is something you might discuss with attorneys before jumping into the LS fray.

I'd advise you to look at some patent firms in the market where you live and find some patent attorneys who went to either your undergrad or grad school for their own undergrad or LS. Set up lunch with them and pick their brains. This will help you decide if patent law is right for you and will also set you up with great contacts you can leverage in the future if you decide to pursue LS. I've found most attorneys are open to this type of inquiry. Just send out a bunch of emails and you should get some takers.

Good luck to you:-)

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sunynp
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Re: Accomplished scientist that wants to go to law school

Postby sunynp » Wed Aug 15, 2012 3:00 pm

Your LSAT and gpa are low. Law schools only care about those numbers. Your graduate degree and other softs won't make enough of a difference.

You are capable of doing well on the LSAT. You should look at pithy pikes guide for self study. There are plenty of study resources on this forum for you to use.

CarlyIN
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Re: Accomplished scientist that wants to go to law school

Postby CarlyIN » Wed Aug 15, 2012 4:33 pm

Samara wrote:You should be a lot more worried about your LSAT than your CV. With that 3.3, you will need a 170+ to get into a T14 school. Your science accomplishments sound like a big deal, but as you guess, won't translate well to law school admissions. You will likely see a small boost and you won't be "overlooked." There are lots of engineers and scientists with low UG GPAs at top law schools, especially Northwestern. What exactly is your concern?


I have a lot of concerns (failing, wasting time, really making my science contacts angry because I am leaving the field, etc.). I guess I have posted on the forum simply to get feedback. I want to make sure that this path is realistic, because I will only be applying to one LS. I cannot move due to my husband's profession. I appreciate any feedback, and all the comments so far have been very helpful. Thanks!

CarlyIN
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Re: Accomplished scientist that wants to go to law school

Postby CarlyIN » Wed Aug 15, 2012 4:33 pm

InGoodFaith wrote:Why law?


Well, I have always had an interest in law, specifically the idea having the knowledge base to defend against instances that I believe are unjust. Patent law interests me because, after being a researcher for years, I understand the importance of and necessity for protecting ideas/research. When I started undergrad, I was pushed into the sciences by my parents and teachers, because I always performed well (especially in Biology). Then I went to grad school because, well, what else was there to do with a BS in Biology (besides Med School which I have never been interested in!)...Now, I realize that I love science, but it isn't as fulfilling as I once found it to be, and I am ready to pursue other interests.

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Samara
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Re: Accomplished scientist that wants to go to law school

Postby Samara » Wed Aug 15, 2012 4:40 pm

CarlyIN wrote:
Samara wrote:You should be a lot more worried about your LSAT than your CV. With that 3.3, you will need a 170+ to get into a T14 school. Your science accomplishments sound like a big deal, but as you guess, won't translate well to law school admissions. You will likely see a small boost and you won't be "overlooked." There are lots of engineers and scientists with low UG GPAs at top law schools, especially Northwestern. What exactly is your concern?


I have a lot of concerns (failing, wasting time, really making my science contacts angry because I am leaving the field, etc.). I guess I have posted on the forum simply to get feedback. I want to make sure that this path is realistic, because I will only be applying to one LS. I cannot move due to my husband's profession. I appreciate any feedback, and all the comments so far have been very helpful. Thanks!

And which law school is that? This will have a big impact on whether or not it's a good idea. My understanding is that your background will help make you more employable, but employment stats at many schools are so dire, that it doesn't really matter.

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20130312
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Re: Accomplished scientist that wants to go to law school

Postby 20130312 » Wed Aug 15, 2012 4:42 pm

CarlyIN wrote:
InGoodFaith wrote:Why law?


Well, I have always had an interest in law, specifically the idea having the knowledge base to defend against instances that I believe are unjust. Patent law interests me because, after being a researcher for years, I understand the importance of and necessity for protecting ideas/research. When I started undergrad, I was pushed into the sciences by my parents and teachers, because I always performed well (especially in Biology). Then I went to grad school because, well, what else was there to do with a BS in Biology (besides Med School which I have never been interested in!)...Now, I realize that I love science, but it isn't as fulfilling as I once found it to be, and I am ready to pursue other interests.


Fair enough. I think you're making a great decision then. Make sure when you are applying that you take advice from the posters in this forum, though. They will tell you to retake the LSAT over and over, and it's almost always the right answer. Good luck!

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sunynp
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Re: Accomplished scientist that wants to go to law school

Postby sunynp » Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:22 pm

For some more cold advice- you cannot afford to apply to only one school. You may need to go to a different school and be apart from your husband to have your best shot . Law school is too expensive to just apply one place. If anything you need multiple a acceptances to leverage money for "merit aid" discounts.


There is a lot you need to learn about this process. It is entirely different than applying for science graduate degrees . It is also about a quarter of a million dollars more expensive. You can't afford to screw this up. This forum can help you a lot.

If you are going to leave science for law, you need to let go of what your former colleagues thi k- you will soon be living a different life than they will.

Mostly I am concerned by how uninformed you are right now. You need to read more of these forums and ask more questions. I can't stress enough how complete different law school is from science grad school. ( my ex got a phd in astrophysics; my undergrad degrees were bio and chem. I have plenty of friends in science grad school.)

CarlyIN
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Re: Accomplished scientist that wants to go to law school

Postby CarlyIN » Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:25 am

sunynp wrote:For some more cold advice- you cannot afford to apply to only one school. You may need to go to a different school and be apart from your husband to have your best shot . Law school is too expensive to just apply one place. If anything you need multiple a acceptances to leverage money for "merit aid" discounts.


There is a lot you need to learn about this process. It is entirely different than applying for science graduate degrees . It is also about a quarter of a million dollars more expensive. You can't afford to screw this up. This forum can help you a lot.

If you are going to leave science for law, you need to let go of what your former colleagues thi k- you will soon be living a different life than they will.

Mostly I am concerned by how uninformed you are right now. You need to read more of these forums and ask more questions. I can't stress enough how complete different law school is from science grad school. ( my ex got a phd in astrophysics; my undergrad degrees were bio and chem. I have plenty of friends in science grad school.)


Wow...okay. Well, thank you for your honesty, I suppose, although your delivery is rather inflammatory. First of all, I am not uneducated. I have read the forums, and I have done my homework. I have even talked to patent lawyers. I plan on applying to a law school that is ranked in the 20s, and I have spoken to the school already. They seemed rather receptive.

As far as your comment concerning that I can't "afford to screw this up". First of all, I can actually afford to do whatever I want considering paying for the tuition will not be a problem (the tuition at the school I am interested in will run less than $100K and my husband has a rather lucrative career). But, that really isn't the issue at hand. I understand that a good salary following law school depends on where you go to school and grades and corresponding internships. My current salary is in the mid-30s. I should be able to make more than that when I am done, correct? Furthermore, graduate school is a long and hard process. Unlike you who have had friends go through it, I actually labored through it. Yes, you get a stipend ($19,000-25,000), but you also work 12-14 hour days, every day...even holidays. A PhD takes at least 5 years (assuming your PI will let you defend and leave...there is no set graduation date), and then you have to do a post-Doc. And, yes, you get paid ($30,000-40,000), but you are talking another 5-10 years. Then, you leave a post-Doc and find that you are competing with 200-500 other people who are just a qualified as you for an academic position where you will start at $40,000-50,000. Congrats you got a position! Now, you spend the next 7-10 years trying to make tenure and get a pay raise (working 12-14 hour days and holidays...to get that big $ grant that will get you tenure) to maybe end up making $75,000 a year if you are lucky. And by the way, your kids are now in college, and you weren't around. (Do the math...I will come out ahead by at least 200K...extremely conservative estimate). So, I am informed.

All I was asking is for opinions, not to get belittled. Go harass someone else. Constructive criticism is welcome, negativity is not.

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Triveal
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Re: Accomplished scientist that wants to go to law school

Postby Triveal » Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:40 am

I don't think he was trying to offend or to be negative, just to make sure you're informed - because there's a huuuuuuge misconception that "JD = $$$$ bottom line" out there right now. Your response was a little harsh.

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sunynp
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Re: Accomplished scientist that wants to go to law school

Postby sunynp » Thu Aug 16, 2012 1:18 am

Lol you should have said you have a rich husband so you don't care how much it costs. Most people don't have that luxury. Even people who do have that luxury try to maximize their scholarships by negotiating competing offers. To do that they have to apply to more than one school. You said you were applying to one school and I wanted you to know at least one reason why it was a mistake. It didn't appear from your posts that you had considered that angle.

I also think you misunderstood me. I never said you didn't work hard. What I meant was that law school classes, law school exams and the law school mandatory curve are completely different from the type of exams and experiences that science graduate schools have. The mandatory curve, in my experience, is harshest to those who assume they can just work hard and do well. In science hard work generally equals good grades - this is not the case in law school. I don't know if your science background will save you if you don't get the grades- yet another reason to apply more broadly ( though your gpa and LSAT might be an issue.)

I think you may also be mistaken about many other aspects of law school. However as you feel you are quite well informed, I'm happy to leave you to it.

aca0260
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Re: Accomplished scientist that wants to go to law school

Postby aca0260 » Thu Aug 16, 2012 1:23 am

Agree on OP's harsh response. I'm guessing the school is Notre Dame. Check this out: --LinkRemoved--.

62% employment with 26% underemployment. Only 38/190 (20%) got biglaw. Whether your husband can afford to pay for your education or not, it is important to be realistic about employment outcomes. I mean, this is professional school...if you can't expect to make money out of it then what's the point?

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Re: Accomplished scientist that wants to go to law school

Postby Persia » Thu Aug 16, 2012 1:54 am

No need to get offended, OP. I don't think he was trying to "belittle" you.

My background was similar to yours before coming to law school, and I had planned on going into patent prosecution. After actually doing the work, however, I realized it was not for me and switched to a different practice area. I would definitely advise spending some time on Google Patents before applying. Read through ten or twenty random patents in their entirety and ask yourself honestly if you want to devote your career to writing these things every day. You might like it, and good for you if you do! Just make certain before spending the next three years of your life in law school.

I would also second what other posters are telling you about the different nature of law school. It's just a different beast from science. Personally I felt the subject matter was easier, but the grading system was so much more stressful. Semester grades dependent on one exam, a mandatory curve, the inherent subjectivity of essay grading, and employment options based largely on your first semester grades... the whole thing is designed to make your blood pressure sky rocket.

That said, if you can get into a Top 20 or so school with your IP background, you have a better shot than most at actually finding a job. Good luck!

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Nova
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Re: Accomplished scientist that wants to go to law school

Postby Nova » Thu Aug 16, 2012 2:07 am

Dont trip over your science peers.You have to do what is best for you. Haters gonna hate.

Im going to assume the school is ND. Your chances of admission suck unless you hit median, 166. That should be the goal. Score 166+. It is extreamely unlikely that an applicant below both medians will be admitted. There are very few below both median seats available and many are reserved for URMs.

Please take a look at these,

--LinkRemoved--

http://notredame.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=396

CarlyIN
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Re: Accomplished scientist that wants to go to law school

Postby CarlyIN » Sat Aug 18, 2012 7:31 pm

Nova wrote:Dont trip over your science peers.You have to do what is best for you. Haters gonna hate.

Im going to assume the school is ND. Your chances of admission suck unless you hit median, 166. That should be the goal. Score 166+. It is extreamely unlikely that an applicant below both medians will be admitted. There are very few below both median seats available and many are reserved for URMs.

Please take a look at these,

--LinkRemoved--

http://notredame.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=396


Thanks for the info! I'm Native (Dad is Native), and I hate to mention it on any school apps. But, maybe I will on my LS app...

CarlyIN
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Re: Accomplished scientist that wants to go to law school

Postby CarlyIN » Sat Aug 18, 2012 7:39 pm

sunynp wrote:Lol you should have said you have a rich husband so you don't care how much it costs. Most people don't have that luxury. Even people who do have that luxury try to maximize their scholarships by negotiating competing offers. To do that they have to apply to more than one school. You said you were applying to one school and I wanted you to know at least one reason why it was a mistake. It didn't appear from your posts that you had considered that angle.

I also think you misunderstood me. I never said you didn't work hard. What I meant was that law school classes, law school exams and the law school mandatory curve are completely different from the type of exams and experiences that science graduate schools have. The mandatory curve, in my experience, is harshest to those who assume they can just work hard and do well. In science hard work generally equals good grades - this is not the case in law school. I don't know if your science background will save you if you don't get the grades- yet another reason to apply more broadly ( though your gpa and LSAT might be an issue.)

I think you may also be mistaken about many other aspects of law school. However as you feel you are quite well informed, I'm happy to leave you to it.


Different tone in this message than the last...Honestly, I would not take any advice from you considering you believed that you could compare grad school to law school having never attended the former. I think you are arrogant and a waste of my time...now that is "harsh". "I'm happy to leave you to it"...please do!

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North
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Re: Accomplished scientist that wants to go to law school

Postby North » Sat Aug 18, 2012 7:44 pm

CarlyIN wrote:
sunynp wrote:Lol you should have said you have a rich husband so you don't care how much it costs. Most people don't have that luxury. Even people who do have that luxury try to maximize their scholarships by negotiating competing offers. To do that they have to apply to more than one school. You said you were applying to one school and I wanted you to know at least one reason why it was a mistake. It didn't appear from your posts that you had considered that angle.

I also think you misunderstood me. I never said you didn't work hard. What I meant was that law school classes, law school exams and the law school mandatory curve are completely different from the type of exams and experiences that science graduate schools have. The mandatory curve, in my experience, is harshest to those who assume they can just work hard and do well. In science hard work generally equals good grades - this is not the case in law school. I don't know if your science background will save you if you don't get the grades- yet another reason to apply more broadly ( though your gpa and LSAT might be an issue.)

I think you may also be mistaken about many other aspects of law school. However as you feel you are quite well informed, I'm happy to leave you to it.


Different tone in this message than the last...Honestly, I would not take any advice from you considering you believed that you could compare grad school to law school having never attended the former. I think you are arrogant and a waste of my time...now that is "harsh". "I'm happy to leave you to it"...please do!

You need to calm down.

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Re: Accomplished scientist that wants to go to law school

Postby bigvinny » Sat Aug 18, 2012 8:38 pm

CarlyIN wrote:
sunynp wrote:Lol you should have said you have a rich husband so you don't care how much it costs. Most people don't have that luxury. Even people who do have that luxury try to maximize their scholarships by negotiating competing offers. To do that they have to apply to more than one school. You said you were applying to one school and I wanted you to know at least one reason why it was a mistake. It didn't appear from your posts that you had considered that angle.

I also think you misunderstood me. I never said you didn't work hard. What I meant was that law school classes, law school exams and the law school mandatory curve are completely different from the type of exams and experiences that science graduate schools have. The mandatory curve, in my experience, is harshest to those who assume they can just work hard and do well. In science hard work generally equals good grades - this is not the case in law school. I don't know if your science background will save you if you don't get the grades- yet another reason to apply more broadly ( though your gpa and LSAT might be an issue.)

I think you may also be mistaken about many other aspects of law school. However as you feel you are quite well informed, I'm happy to leave you to it.


Different tone in this message than the last...Honestly, I would not take any advice from you considering you believed that you could compare grad school to law school having never attended the former. I think you are arrogant and a waste of my time...now that is "harsh". "I'm happy to leave you to it"...please do!


You seem like a real sweetheart. You come here asking for advice, then yell at those that give it you. Your rich husband must be thrilled to have married such a kind, warm-hearted soul.

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North
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Re: Accomplished scientist that wants to go to law school

Postby North » Sat Aug 18, 2012 8:43 pm

bigvinny wrote:You seem like a real sweetheart. You come here asking for advice, then yell at those that give it you. Your rich husband must be thrilled to have married such a kind, warm-hearted soul.

Wow, I entusiastically approve of one of your posts. We may yet become palsies. +1, big V, +1.

bigvinny
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Re: Accomplished scientist that wants to go to law school

Postby bigvinny » Sat Aug 18, 2012 8:45 pm

North wrote:
bigvinny wrote:You seem like a real sweetheart. You come here asking for advice, then yell at those that give it you. Your rich husband must be thrilled to have married such a kind, warm-hearted soul.

Wow, I entusiastically approve of one of your posts. We may yet become palsies. +1, big V, +1.


I've dreamed of this day my whole life! :mrgreen:

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Nova
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Re: Accomplished scientist that wants to go to law school

Postby Nova » Sat Aug 18, 2012 8:46 pm

CarlyIN wrote: Thanks for the info! I'm Native (Dad is Native), and I hate to mention it on any school apps. But, maybe I will on my LS app...


Yeah, definitely check the box...

collegebum1989
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Re: Accomplished scientist that wants to go to law school

Postby collegebum1989 » Sun Aug 19, 2012 9:00 pm

CarlyIN wrote:
sunynp wrote:Lol you should have said you have a rich husband so you don't care how much it costs. Most people don't have that luxury. Even people who do have that luxury try to maximize their scholarships by negotiating competing offers. To do that they have to apply to more than one school. You said you were applying to one school and I wanted you to know at least one reason why it was a mistake. It didn't appear from your posts that you had considered that angle.

I also think you misunderstood me. I never said you didn't work hard. What I meant was that law school classes, law school exams and the law school mandatory curve are completely different from the type of exams and experiences that science graduate schools have. The mandatory curve, in my experience, is harshest to those who assume they can just work hard and do well. In science hard work generally equals good grades - this is not the case in law school. I don't know if your science background will save you if you don't get the grades- yet another reason to apply more broadly ( though your gpa and LSAT might be an issue.)

I think you may also be mistaken about many other aspects of law school. However as you feel you are quite well informed, I'm happy to leave you to it.


Different tone in this message than the last...Honestly, I would not take any advice from you considering you believed that you could compare grad school to law school having never attended the former. I think you are arrogant and a waste of my time...now that is "harsh". "I'm happy to leave you to it"...please do!


I think sunynp's advice was good but was just misinterpreted. Law school admissions IS different from graduate school admissions. I am just like you (engineering B.S. and M.S.) so I'm familiar with graduate level research and the classes, etc.

What he meant is that the legal field is different from science field. Take for example, employment. For most scientists and engineers, employment is based on research interests and there are usually good prospects for people graduating with science degrees because your research is novel, and there are few people focusing on aspects of the field which you are studying. In law, everyone is law school pretty much learns the same curriculum, and with the number of schools out there as opposed to the number of graduate programs out there, there is an oversupply of lawyers. So employment is more focused on where you went to school, where you graduated in your class, etc. Whereas in science, your employment prospects come from your research experience and publications. Some may argue, that in law, it's tough to distinguish yourself since your in an entire professional industry.

Second, the admissions process is also different. Graduate school admissions is more holistic and focused on individual interests and general fit with departments and professors. If your research experiences are stellar, your GPA/GRE scores are forgiven. This is because graduate schools are ranked on their research prospects and the grants they receive to conduct it. So, in their eyes, excellent research skills will yield more successful graduate researchers, rather than people with high numbers. In law school, there are more applicants than there are for specific graduate programs, so the schools cannot adopt a holistic admissions process to evaluate over 7,000 applicants. Second, the schools are ranked only on undergraduate GPA and LSAT score, so their biggest motivation is to make sure their numbers are high.

The overall difference between science and law is that science is driven by research, law is driven by prestige. As a researcher, the school you went to is less important than your actual experience in the field. In the law field, your employment after school is directly related to a combination of where you went to school and where you graduated in your class.

Good news is that with your experience and your background, you are patent-bar eligible, which gives you a competitive advantage looking for legal jobs in patent prosecution after law school. Your graduate degree also makes you more competitive because you can justify higher billable hours and IP firms love to advertise the number of lawyers they have with advanced degrees.

Hope this helps you out!

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Re: Accomplished scientist that wants to go to law school

Postby Ramsey » Sun Aug 19, 2012 9:48 pm

CarlyIN wrote:
sunynp wrote:Lol you should have said you have a rich husband so you don't care how much it costs. Most people don't have that luxury. Even people who do have that luxury try to maximize their scholarships by negotiating competing offers. To do that they have to apply to more than one school. You said you were applying to one school and I wanted you to know at least one reason why it was a mistake. It didn't appear from your posts that you had considered that angle.

I also think you misunderstood me. I never said you didn't work hard. What I meant was that law school classes, law school exams and the law school mandatory curve are completely different from the type of exams and experiences that science graduate schools have. The mandatory curve, in my experience, is harshest to those who assume they can just work hard and do well. In science hard work generally equals good grades - this is not the case in law school. I don't know if your science background will save you if you don't get the grades- yet another reason to apply more broadly ( though your gpa and LSAT might be an issue.)

I think you may also be mistaken about many other aspects of law school. However as you feel you are quite well informed, I'm happy to leave you to it.


Different tone in this message than the last...Honestly, I would not take any advice from you considering you believed that you could compare grad school to law school having never attended the former. I think you are arrogant and a waste of my time...now that is "harsh". "I'm happy to leave you to it"...please do!





Wow. OP, you are stubborn to the extent that it is harmful to your own learning/betterment (notwithstanding that it is rude). He was giving you some good advices yet you don't even want to consider them because you are dead set on not listening to him.


1) If you really think that you "would not take any advice from ____ considering ____ believed that ____ could compare grad school to law school having never attended the former", you shouldn't bother asking for opinions in this forum. Chances are that many of the users in this forum have not gone through graduate admission process.

Besides, it doesn't need a master's degree to know that graduate school admission IS very different from law school admission.


2) About your chance at LS: if you are a Native American, you have a very good chance at mid-T1 school (whatever that is) with your GPA (low for mid-T1) and 159-165 LSAT. Even though you don't need money, getting a scholarship of some name looks great on resume and may lead to more interview opportunities later.


"Accomplished scientist" - that might be of an overstatement for someone without Ph.D. With the economy going down, more advanced degree holders are applying to law schools, including those with Ph.D/more research/publication experiences.




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