How screwed am I? OK numbers, bad situation

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Hank Moody
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How screwed am I? OK numbers, bad situation

Postby Hank Moody » Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:41 pm

Hello folks!

I'll try to keep this short: I'm planning on applying to law schools during this upcoming cycle, and am graduating from UG in May. My numbers are 3.73/172. Traditional, not URM. GPA was bad first semester of UG, it's been going up ever since (including a 4.0 last semester). Last semester, however, was at a different institution (which I'll eventually graduate from).

Here's the bad: I was suspended from my original UG uni during the Fall 2011 semester for a period of one academic year. It's a pretty bad-looking suspension. I don't want to out myself, but it's non-academic, and has little to do with drugs or alcohol. I was allowed to complete the semester. I appealed (unsuccessfully) and transferred to my current institution. I have complaints about the entire process and how it was handled, not to mention the decision, but this isn't the place for that, I don't think.

Anyway, the title pretty much conveys my attitude. How screwed am I? Is there a set of reasonable expectations I should have? What schools should I be targeting?

Honestly, I could put this topic in several areas on this board, because I have no clue what to do.

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Samara
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Re: How screwed am I? OK numbers, bad situation

Postby Samara » Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:48 pm

Wow, what mediocre numbers. You're definitely screwed.

Disclose it, be honest, don't make excuses, and you should be just fine. Don't complain about the process. Blanket the T14 and enjoy the results.

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somewhatwayward
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Re: How screwed am I? OK numbers, bad situation

Postby somewhatwayward » Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:50 pm

it is hard to advise you without more details. if it is non-academic and not related to drugs or alcohol, it makes me think rape or some other type of crime although if that is the case, you are lucky you avoided criminal prosecution.

anyway my suggestion is to get a job after you graduate and put several years in between you and the suspension (with a clean record the whole time, obviously). after a couple years, you can chalk it up to being young and stupid. plus WE is helpful in admissions anyway. the legal job market will likely be better by the time you enter, too.

another thing to think about is that you have to pass the character and fitness part of the bar to practice. is this something that would make that difficult?

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TheThriller
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Re: How screwed am I? OK numbers, bad situation

Postby TheThriller » Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:51 pm

I have no sympathy for your numbers. Enjoy a T14 school with a meaningful chance at Biglaw employment.

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top30man
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Re: How screwed am I? OK numbers, bad situation

Postby top30man » Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:52 pm

I do not think it will hurt you as much as you think. Apply and see what happens. You'll get some great Offers.

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Samara
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Re: How screwed am I? OK numbers, bad situation

Postby Samara » Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:55 pm

somewhatwayward wrote:it is hard to advise you without more details. if it is non-academic and not related to drugs or alcohol, it makes me think rape or some other type of crime although if that is the case, you are lucky you avoided criminal prosecution.

anyway my suggestion is to get a job after you graduate and put several years in between you and the suspension (with a clean record the whole time, obviously). after a couple years, you can chalk it up to being young and stupid. plus WE is helpful in admissions anyway. the legal job market will likely be better by the time you enter, too.

another thing to think about is that you have to pass the character and fitness part of the bar to practice. is this something that would make that difficult?

Considering they let him finish the semester, how bad could it have been? My guess is his roommate had pot in the dorm and OP got blamed for it, or something like that.

WE is always credited, but unless we get details to the contrary, this doesn't seem like a big deal at all. Can't really know until you apply anyway.

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Hank Moody
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Re: How screwed am I? OK numbers, bad situation

Postby Hank Moody » Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:59 pm

somewhatwayward wrote:it is hard to advise you without more details. if it is non-academic and not related to drugs or alcohol, it makes me think rape or some other type of crime although if that is the case, you are lucky you avoided criminal prosecution.

anyway my suggestion is to get a job after you graduate and put several years in between you and the suspension (with a clean record the whole time, obviously). after a couple years, you can chalk it up to being young and stupid. plus WE is helpful in admissions anyway. the legal job market will likely be better by the time you enter, too.

another thing to think about is that you have to pass the character and fitness part of the bar to practice. is this something that would make that difficult?

Police weren't involved at any level, which is something I pointed out on my appeal, to no avail.

I talked to a couple of attorneys and they don't seem to think I'll have much issue with C&F, though I'm not sure how much experience they have with the bar outside of their own admittance.

I've been thinking about trying to work somewhere for a couple of years. I just have no idea what I'd do. I have some time to figure it out though, so thanks for reminding me of the option.

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dingbat
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Re: How screwed am I? OK numbers, bad situation

Postby dingbat » Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:06 pm

Regardless of how fair the process was, it's on your record.
Disclose, be honest (they'll probably ask for a statement from your dean) and tell them (in an addituonal statement) you regret the event and you've learned from the experience

Remember, they will assume you did whatever your record says you did and if you try to deny it, it'll look bad.
If you man up, and it's not severe, they are willing to accept it was a mistake you wont be repeating (if you sound remorseful/apologetic)

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Hank Moody
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Re: How screwed am I? OK numbers, bad situation

Postby Hank Moody » Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:15 pm

dingbat wrote:Regardless of how fair the process was, it's on your record.
Disclose, be honest (they'll probably ask for a statement from your dean) and tell them (in an addituonal statement) you regret the event and you've learned from the experience

Remember, they will assume you did whatever your record says you did and if you try to deny it, it'll look bad.
If you man up, and it's not severe, they are willing to accept it was a mistake you wont be repeating (if you sound remorseful/apologetic)

So I have to sack up and swallow my pride. Fair enough.

Thanks for the responses, folks.

Oh, and if anyone's been in similar situations (I realize I've been a bit vague) I'd appreciate any further insight.

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Hank Moody
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Re: How screwed am I? OK numbers, bad situation

Postby Hank Moody » Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:49 pm

flem wrote:LOL "OK numbers"

You're TTT bound for sure.

Retake?

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minnbills
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Re: How screwed am I? OK numbers, bad situation

Postby minnbills » Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:52 pm

Uh, you'll be fine dude. Just make sure you disclose.

SchopenhauerFTW
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Re: How screwed am I? OK numbers, bad situation

Postby SchopenhauerFTW » Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:51 pm

There's only one thing that comes to mind of what you could have been suspended for, and if it's what I'm thinking then I'm pretty sure the responses you're getting here aren't helpful at all.

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fatduck
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Re: How screwed am I? OK numbers, bad situation

Postby fatduck » Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:53 pm

if you're worried about anonymity, why would you ask this question AFTER making a new account?

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Hank Moody
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Re: How screwed am I? OK numbers, bad situation

Postby Hank Moody » Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:48 pm

fatduck wrote:if you're worried about anonymity, why would you ask this question AFTER making a new account?

Because you can't post as a guest?

EdBurke
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Re: How screwed am I? OK numbers, bad situation

Postby EdBurke » Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:47 am

SchopenhauerFTW wrote:There's only one thing that comes to mind of what you could have been suspended for, and if it's what I'm thinking then I'm pretty sure the responses you're getting here aren't helpful at all.


TITCR. The only two issues that fit your description and could cause this would be sexual assault (or something closely related) or a criminal act that the school didn't prosecute for (such as stealing money from student government or punching a teacher). I feel like the former would be a lot worse than the latter for adcomms; without knowing the facts its hard to say how much of an impact it'll have - a credible rape allegation that only fell through because the victim didn't want to prosecute will have a slightly different impact then two people at a party where some contact may have occurred but lots of alcohol was involved.

LSN does have a few people with C&F issues who tracked their numbers, look for a guy who got rejected from OSU with steller numbers.

splittertothemax
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Re: How screwed am I? OK numbers, bad situation

Postby splittertothemax » Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:41 pm

I got suspended my freshmen year for getting two open containers, two drinking in the dorms, and pissing on a cop car. Long story short I got into graduate schools (didn't go due to wanting to go to law school).

Called my school it's taken off after five years (September being the 5th year). My story is relatively funny, however, if you got accused of rape, you may be in a different situation. Call your school and try to get it off your record; or see what the time frame is .

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JamMasterJ
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Re: How screwed am I? OK numbers, bad situation

Postby JamMasterJ » Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:57 pm

splittertothemax wrote:I got suspended my freshmen year for getting two open containers, two drinking in the dorms, and pissing on a cop car. Long story short I got into graduate schools (didn't go due to wanting to go to law school).

Called my school it's taken off after five years (September being the 5th year). My story is relatively funny, however, if you got accused of rape, you may be in a different situation. Call your school and try to get it off your record; or see what the time frame is .

regardless of whether it comes off his record, C&F is fairly good at digging. It's really not worth not disclosing, regardless of the school's position on the matter. Without knowing more, I'd say you're good for something in the T14, but we all really have no idea w/o more info.

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Lawquacious
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Re: How screwed am I? OK numbers, bad situation

Postby Lawquacious » Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:08 pm

JamMasterJ wrote:
splittertothemax wrote:I got suspended my freshmen year for getting two open containers, two drinking in the dorms, and pissing on a cop car. Long story short I got into graduate schools (didn't go due to wanting to go to law school).

Called my school it's taken off after five years (September being the 5th year). My story is relatively funny, however, if you got accused of rape, you may be in a different situation. Call your school and try to get it off your record; or see what the time frame is .

regardless of whether it comes off his record, C&F is fairly good at digging. It's really not worth not disclosing, regardless of the school's position on the matter. Without knowing more, I'd say you're good for something in the T14, but we all really have no idea w/o more info.



Not picking on you in particular (or anyone for that matter), but it is easy to tell someone to disclose when you aren't the one with something at stake. I think disclosing things that are CLEARLY REQUIRED TO BE DISCLOSED in a given application is obviously important, but for law school admissions and for bar C & F a lot of people on here just spout off "disclose" even where the problem may not be directly covered by the questions in the application a particular person is making. I'm not condoning in anyway whatever OP may have done or been accused of, and obviously the bar or law school admissions will probably prefer more rather than less info, but disclosing too much, where not ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY, can cause unnecessary problems. That said, there is perhaps nothing more the "kiss of death" in C & F than outright lies or avoidance of disclosing things that are explicitly required.




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