Native American super splitter w/indian law pref

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elcee1987
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Native American super splitter w/indian law pref

Postby elcee1987 » Thu Jul 26, 2012 2:53 am

Hi, this is my first post, but I've been lurking for a while.
I'm female, 1/2 quantum Native American (yes, enrolled, though I grew up removed from the tribe by my parents' desire), and I plan to specialize in Indian law in the PNW. I'm anticipating a 168-170 LSAT (taking the official one in Oct, but that's predictive from what I've been scoring on practice official tests), but here's the catch: My cumulative undergrad GPA is going to be about 2.8. I withdrew from school 5 years ago as a young'un, due to severe anxiety and depression, and received a full set of "F's", thus messing up my GPA. I've since recovered and returned to college, so my graduate GPA at my new school will be 3.7, though even a 4.0 wouldn't be enough to salvage my previous GPA. I'm from Washington State, and applying to western schools like ASU, UNM, UMontana, L&C, and prob UCD and UW as reach schools. Do I have reason to worry about acceptance if I write a dreaded addendum to explain my GPA? With my high LSAT and URM NA status, I've been reassuring my family that things will be okay, but what are your thoughts?

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JamMasterJ
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Re: Native American super splitter w/indian law pref

Postby JamMasterJ » Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:08 am

you should be, though as everyone will say, come back with a real score.

I would also throw Northwestern, GULC, and Michigan in there if you get up over 168

CanadianWolf
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Re: Native American super splitter w/indian law pref

Postby CanadianWolf » Thu Jul 26, 2012 9:49 am

Arizona, New Mexico & Colorado as well as your other listed schools offer Indian Law courses.

Since your GPA was severly impacted by one semester of diagnosed illness, it may not affect your cycle to many law schools; however, it'll be a school by school basis.

andythefir
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Re: Native American super splitter w/indian law pref

Postby andythefir » Thu Jul 26, 2012 9:55 am

Notre Dame's dean is one of the preeminent native law scholars in the country

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Nova
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Re: Native American super splitter w/indian law pref

Postby Nova » Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:02 am

elcee1987 wrote: I'm anticipating a 168-170 LSAT (taking the official one in Oct, but that's predictive from what I've been scoring on practice official tests)

JamMasterJ wrote: you should be, though as everyone will say, come back with a real score.

Grizz wrote:Image

http://www.mylsn.info
elcee1987 wrote:I'm from Washington State, and applying to western schools like ASU, UNM, UMontana, L&C, and prob UCD and UW as reach schools.

A 168+ LSAT should result in admission and $$ from most, if not all, of those schools.
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 9&t=188446

wildcard174
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Re: Native American super splitter w/indian law pref

Postby wildcard174 » Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:11 am

JamMasterJ wrote:you should be, though as everyone will say, come back with a real score.

I would also throw Northwestern, GULC, and Michigan in there if you get up over 168


Michigan Law School is prohibited by state law from considering race in admissions decisions. Your race/heritage itself won't help, except to the degree it makes your personal statement more interesting/impressive. With a 2.8, you'd need better than 168 to have a shot at Michigan.

You have far better, even good, chances schoools you listed. Good luck.

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20130312
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Re: Native American super splitter w/indian law pref

Postby 20130312 » Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:20 am

wildcard174 wrote:Michigan Law School is prohibited by state law from considering race in admissions decisions


:|

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Nova
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Re: Native American super splitter w/indian law pref

Postby Nova » Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:29 am

InGoodFaith wrote:
wildcard174 wrote:Michigan Law School is prohibited by state law from considering race in admissions decisions


:|


lol

dip_spLitter
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Re: Native American super splitter w/indian law pref

Postby dip_spLitter » Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:07 pm

get a real LSAT
*score

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JamMasterJ
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Re: Native American super splitter w/indian law pref

Postby JamMasterJ » Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:12 pm

wildcard174 wrote:
JamMasterJ wrote:you should be, though as everyone will say, come back with a real score.

I would also throw Northwestern, GULC, and Michigan in there if you get up over 168


Michigan Law School is prohibited by state law from considering race in admissions decisions. Your race/heritage itself won't help, except to the degree it makes your personal statement more interesting/impressive. With a 2.8, you'd need better than 168 to have a shot at Michigan.

You have far better, even good, chances schoools you listed. Good luck.

lol:
URM Only

vs.

URM Excluded

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20130312
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Re: Native American super splitter w/indian law pref

Postby 20130312 » Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:25 pm

wildcard174 wrote:Michigan Law School is prohibited by state law from considering race in admissions decisions. Your race/heritage itself won't help, except to the degree it makes your personal statement more interesting/impressive. With a 2.8, you'd need better than 168 to have a shot at Michigan.


http://lawschoolnumbers.com/chiefrfr

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/MaroonURM

Image

wildcard174
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Re: Native American super splitter w/indian law pref

Postby wildcard174 » Thu Jul 26, 2012 2:53 pm

InGoodFaith wrote:
wildcard174 wrote:Michigan Law School is prohibited by state law from considering race in admissions decisions. Your race/heritage itself won't help, except to the degree it makes your personal statement more interesting/impressive. With a 2.8, you'd need better than 168 to have a shot at Michigan.


http://lawschoolnumbers.com/chiefrfr

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/MaroonURM

Image


I'm sorry, I'm trying to be helpful here... I'm a 3L at Michigan... And it is the law in Michigan that state schools not use race as a criteria in admissions decisions. Now, if your point is that minorities do a little bit better than non-minorities despite the state law, that MAY be true. I honestly have no idea and, given my experience, would say that isn't true.

Re: InGoodFaith, Showing the below-average numbers of two minority admits doesn't prove anything; there are non-minority admits who have below-average numbers who had great softs who got in.

The point here is that OP should not think NA status = admit to Michigan with a 2.8 GPA and LSAT <168.
Good luck, OP.

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20130312
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Re: Native American super splitter w/indian law pref

Postby 20130312 » Thu Jul 26, 2012 2:59 pm

wildcard174 wrote:Re: InGoodFaith, Showing the below-average numbers of two minority admits doesn't prove anything; there are non-minority admits who have below-average numbers who had great softs who got in.


No there aren't. Look at the data that JamMaster posted.

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Yukos
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Re: Native American super splitter w/indian law pref

Postby Yukos » Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:01 pm

wildcard174 wrote:
InGoodFaith wrote:
wildcard174 wrote:Michigan Law School is prohibited by state law from considering race in admissions decisions. Your race/heritage itself won't help, except to the degree it makes your personal statement more interesting/impressive. With a 2.8, you'd need better than 168 to have a shot at Michigan.


http://lawschoolnumbers.com/chiefrfr

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/MaroonURM

Image


I'm sorry, I'm trying to be helpful here... I'm a 3L at Michigan... And it is the law in Michigan that state schools not use race as a criteria in admissions decisions. Now, if your point is that minorities do a little bit better than non-minorities despite the state law, that MAY be true. I honestly have no idea and, given my experience, would say that isn't true.

Re: InGoodFaith, Showing the below-average numbers of two minority admits doesn't prove anything; there are non-minority admits who have below-average numbers who had great softs who got in.

The point here is that OP should not think NA status = admit to Michigan with a 2.8 GPA and LSAT <168.
Good luck, OP.


If you look at this and this and still think there's only a slight boost for URMs I don't know what to tell you.

tl;dr URM UM chance: 52%, non-URM chance: 9%

wildcard174
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Re: Native American super splitter w/indian law pref

Postby wildcard174 » Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:27 pm

[/quote]

If you look at this and this and still think there's only a slight boost for URMs I don't know what to tell you.

tl;dr URM UM chance: 52%, non-URM chance: 9%[/quote]

Intreresting numbers... I've never spent much time at LSN or wherever. I know that other elite law schools have 30% or more URM enrollment and Michigan is down at 22% or so, in no small part because of Prop 2. Whether or not Michigan Law School bends the rules on Prop 2, I don't know - and I don't think we can know from a URM sample of 35ish over five years, but whatever. *Some* of this discrepency may result from the fact that URMs have better personal statements about overcoming adversity than non-URMs, which is why I said in my original post that OP's race itself won't give her URM bump but may help with the personal statement...

You do agree with me, right, that OP shouldn't bank on Michigan Law with a 2.8 and an LSAT of <168? I think that is the point of the thread...

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20130312
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Re: Native American super splitter w/indian law pref

Postby 20130312 » Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:32 pm

wildcard174 wrote:You do agree with me, right, that OP shouldn't bank on Michigan Law with a 2.8 and an LSAT of <168? I think that is the point of the thread...


URM cycles are notoriously unpredictable. But no, OP shouldn't get their hopes up.

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Nova
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Re: Native American super splitter w/indian law pref

Postby Nova » Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:50 pm

wildcard174 wrote:You do agree with me, right, that OP shouldn't bank on Michigan Law with a 2.8 and an LSAT of <168? I think that is the point of the thread...


OP is concerned with mostly western schools and did not mention Michigan at all. JMJ suggested throwing an app there, along with a few other T14s. Then you took exception, and the thread devolved into what it has become. No one disagrees that OP is not a lock at M.

elcee1987
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Re: Native American super splitter w/indian law pref

Postby elcee1987 » Fri Jul 27, 2012 12:06 am

Thanks for the input, I do feel better, since I'm not attempting, or even desiring to go to a t14 school. I think my preferred school is likely Lewis & Clark, and UNM would be great too. Because my GPA IS lower, I'm trying to keep my options open and my preferences really are adaptable. If UMontana is the only place that accepts me, I won't be disappointed.

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Nova
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Re: Native American super splitter w/indian law pref

Postby Nova » Fri Jul 27, 2012 12:19 am

elcee1987 wrote:Thanks for the input, I do feel better, since I'm not attempting, or even desiring to go to a t14 school. I think my preferred school is likely Lewis & Clark, and UNM would be great too. Because my GPA IS lower, I'm trying to keep my options open and my preferences really are adaptable. If UMontana is the only place that accepts me, I won't be disappointed.


Its good you arent getting your hopes up, but I dont think you realize what a good position you will be in with an LSAT in the high 160s. Schools looove to pad their LSAT median and accept a URM at the same time. Im a URM splitter too, with very similar stats (3.0/high 160s)... and was accepted at nearly every school where I was at or above the median LSAT. I also got several large scholarship offers from those schools. I expect you to have a relatively great cycle since you want to attend a regional school.

elcee1987
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Re: Native American super splitter w/indian law pref

Postby elcee1987 » Fri Jul 27, 2012 12:25 am

Haha, I hope I have a good cycle! I really don't have any desire to leave the region at all if I can avoid it, since I plan on having my career here in the PNW, and I've never had reason to go to the east coast. Even Arizona is a bit far for me, though ASU's indian law program is a pretty good motivator. I'm hoping my desire to practice indian law will boost my app in my reach schools of UW and UCD, but we'll see. Thanks for the confidence boost!

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JamMasterJ
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Re: Native American super splitter w/indian law pref

Postby JamMasterJ » Mon Jul 30, 2012 1:23 am

Nova wrote:
wildcard174 wrote:You do agree with me, right, that OP shouldn't bank on Michigan Law with a 2.8 and an LSAT of <168? I think that is the point of the thread...


OP is concerned with mostly western schools and did not mention Michigan at all. JMJ suggested throwing an app there, along with a few other T14s. Then you took exception, and the thread devolved into what it has become. No one disagrees that OP is not a lock at M.

OP isn't a lock anywhere. He has no LSAT score :lol:

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052220151
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Re: Native American super splitter w/indian law pref

Postby 052220151 » Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:21 am

wildcard174 wrote:
JamMasterJ wrote:you should be, though as everyone will say, come back with a real score.

I would also throw Northwestern, GULC, and Michigan in there if you get up over 168


Michigan Law School is prohibited by state law from considering race in admissions decisions. Your race/heritage itself won't help, except to the degree it makes your personal statement more interesting/impressive. With a 2.8, you'd need better than 168 to have a shot at Michigan.

You have far better, even good, chances schoools you listed. Good luck.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grutter_v._Bollinger This is relevant.

bbsg
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Re: Native American super splitter w/indian law pref

Postby bbsg » Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:32 pm

If you hardcore bomb the LSAT (like 150's), don't want to retake, and don't mind leaving the States (as in, your number one concern is working on native issues wherever they are) you'd probably be a lock for Lakehead Law School in Canada. I mean it's probably going to turn out to be a pretty horrible school in almost every respect, but it'll be an absolute sure-fire route into dealing with native issues in Canada and your numbers will get you in even with a bombed LSAT.

Also it'll be significantly less expensive.




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