3.75 GPA; Want to go to Berkeley or Stanford Forum

[outlookingin]

I keep on hearing conflicting things regarding how my GPA will affect my chances at these schools, especially Berkeley. Is my GPA too low? What LSAT score would a white male need to get into UCB with a 3.75? Do I have a better chance of getting into Stanford? I don't understand!!

For the record, I have a 175. Law school predictor tells me what I would expect to hear, that I'm in at UC Berkeley but not a lock at SLS. But there is persistent doubt... should I retake the LSAT in hopes of scoring even higher?

Thanks in advance for all advice, I've just been hearing different stuff and I want to get some sort of TLS consensus.


p.s. if anyone is shooting for these schools as well, or has applied in the past, PM me cuz I'd like to pick your brain!

[Yukos]

GPA seems too low for Stanford (it's pretty much at their GPA 25th) and they don't care that much about your LSAT.

Berkeley is iffy, really depends on your softs. Worth an app to both though if you want NorCal.

The nice thing is, with that LSAT, you can go to a T14, even a CCN, with some $$$ and then come back to CA to practice.

Check out http://myLSN.info/dispresults.php?sk=rjnqf

[Tom Joad]

This is a visual of Stanford's admissions.

But seriously your GPA is probably too low. Won't hurt to throw them an app especially if you are an interesting applicant though.

[Doorkeeper]

Stanford is going to be very difficult to get unless you have a really great soft (prestigious award, great work experience, etc).

Berkeley is definitely attainable. I got in with similar stats.

That being said, you'll also get into Columbia, Chicago, and NYU with money, so you'll have a hard decision to make.

[outlookingin]

Hey thanks guys, that's good info. Really frustrating though... I don't really want to go to the East Coast at all, I want to be in the Bay Area to be close to family. My softs are decent--I've been living and working abroad for a couple years now. But I don't think they are Stanford quality. Berkeley...?? Damn, I really REALLY hope so. Thanks again for the comments.

[dixon02]

I would work really hard on your PS and a 'why Berkeley' essay. They definitely take more of a 'whole applicant' approach than most schools. If you can convince them that Berkeley is where you want to be, I think your softs and numbers make you a pretty good candidate. But yeah, tough to say for sure what they're looking for.

Same is true for Stanford btw. Seems unlikely, but with that LSAT score and a smaller applicant pool I wouldn't get too down about it just yet. With what sounds like good work experience, I think a 3.75, 175 can be competitive everywhere. With those numbers, I'd toss an app at Yale too just to see what happens.

[Tom Joad]

If you want Berkeley apply to all the T14 schools so you can negotiate scholarships with Berkeley.

Check their site though, I don't think they officially honor Northwestern scholarships.

[Yukos]

If you want Berkeley apply to all the T14 schools so you can negotiate scholarships with Berkeley.

Check their site though, I don't think they officially honor Northwestern scholarships.

I seem to recall they'll only negotiate with CCNHYS offers.

[Tom Joad]

If you want Berkeley apply to all the T14 schools so you can negotiate scholarships with Berkeley.

Check their site though, I don't think they officially honor Northwestern scholarships.

I seem to recall they'll only negotiate with CCNHYS offers.

Students admitted to Berkeley Law that have also received a scholarship offer from one of the 12 law schools listed below can apply for a Berkeley Law Matching Scholarship.

Columbia University
Cornell University
Duke University
Georgetown University
Harvard University
New York University
Stanford University
University of Chicago
University of Michigan
University of Pennsylvania
University of Virginia
Yale University

[Take Two]

I would work really hard on your PS and a 'why Berkeley' essay. They definitely take more of a 'whole applicant' approach than most schools. If you can convince them that Berkeley is where you want to be, I think your softs and numbers make you a pretty good candidate. But yeah, tough to say for sure what they're looking for.

This. I wussed out and didn't apply to Stanford so I can't really help you there, but I got Berkeley with an ever so slightly lower GPA and a tad higher LSAT. I suspect, though obviously I dont know, that you PS/why Berkeley is going to be key (I say slash because I just added it to my personal statement because they give you more space) and you really have to focus on that. You definitely have the numbers to show you are capable the onus is now on you to convince them that you really want Berkeley, that you have bought into the program there and the unique things it has to offer. This is very doable though.

[Yukos]

If you want Berkeley apply to all the T14 schools so you can negotiate scholarships with Berkeley.

Check their site though, I don't think they officially honor Northwestern scholarships.

I seem to recall they'll only negotiate with CCNHYS offers.

Students admitted to Berkeley Law that have also received a scholarship offer from one of the 12 law schools listed below can apply for a Berkeley Law Matching Scholarship.

Columbia University
Cornell University
Duke University
Georgetown University
Harvard University
New York University
Stanford University
University of Chicago
University of Michigan
University of Pennsylvania
University of Virginia
Yale University

Subtle NU trolling by Cal.

[Samara]

Subtle NU trolling by Cal.

haha, I noticed that too. TBF, they are pretty much opposite schools.

[outlookingin]

I would work really hard on your PS and a 'why Berkeley' essay. They definitely take more of a 'whole applicant' approach than most schools. If you can convince them that Berkeley is where you want to be, I think your softs and numbers make you a pretty good candidate. But yeah, tough to say for sure what they're looking for.

This. I wussed out and didn't apply to Stanford so I can't really help you there, but I got Berkeley with an ever so slightly lower GPA and a tad higher LSAT. I suspect, though obviously I dont know, that you PS/why Berkeley is going to be key (I say slash because I just added it to my personal statement because they give you more space) and you really have to focus on that. You definitely have the numbers to show you are capable the onus is now on you to convince them that you really want Berkeley, that you have bought into the program there and the unique things it has to offer. This is very doable though.

OK, yeah I'm definitely going to write my little heart out and produce a passionate "Why Berkeley" (or, as you said, just roll it into my PS). This sounds waaaay far-fetched, but I'm just kind of wondering: if I get admitted into Columbia but not Berkeley, could I appeal at Berkeley and say something like "Look, I don't actually want to go here, I want YOU" ? Probably not, right?

Thanks again for all the advice, this is extremely useful. I love TLS!

[dixon02]

I would work really hard on your PS and a 'why Berkeley' essay. They definitely take more of a 'whole applicant' approach than most schools. If you can convince them that Berkeley is where you want to be, I think your softs and numbers make you a pretty good candidate. But yeah, tough to say for sure what they're looking for.

This. I wussed out and didn't apply to Stanford so I can't really help you there, but I got Berkeley with an ever so slightly lower GPA and a tad higher LSAT. I suspect, though obviously I dont know, that you PS/why Berkeley is going to be key (I say slash because I just added it to my personal statement because they give you more space) and you really have to focus on that. You definitely have the numbers to show you are capable the onus is now on you to convince them that you really want Berkeley, that you have bought into the program there and the unique things it has to offer. This is very doable though.

OK, yeah I'm definitely going to write my little heart out and produce a passionate "Why Berkeley" (or, as you said, just roll it into my PS). This sounds waaaay far-fetched, but I'm just kind of wondering: if I get admitted into Columbia but not Berkeley, could I appeal at Berkeley and say something like "Look, I don't actually want to go here, I want YOU" ? Probably not, right?

Thanks again for all the advice, this is extremely useful. I love TLS!

I've never heard of that working, but of course you can do that. Nothing's stopping you. The more plausible scenario would be if you ended up on the waitlist at Berkeley and used a Columbia admittance to get off the WL (hopefully with $$).

[Yukos]

I would work really hard on your PS and a 'why Berkeley' essay. They definitely take more of a 'whole applicant' approach than most schools. If you can convince them that Berkeley is where you want to be, I think your softs and numbers make you a pretty good candidate. But yeah, tough to say for sure what they're looking for.

This. I wussed out and didn't apply to Stanford so I can't really help you there, but I got Berkeley with an ever so slightly lower GPA and a tad higher LSAT. I suspect, though obviously I dont know, that you PS/why Berkeley is going to be key (I say slash because I just added it to my personal statement because they give you more space) and you really have to focus on that. You definitely have the numbers to show you are capable the onus is now on you to convince them that you really want Berkeley, that you have bought into the program there and the unique things it has to offer. This is very doable though.

OK, yeah I'm definitely going to write my little heart out and produce a passionate "Why Berkeley" (or, as you said, just roll it into my PS). This sounds waaaay far-fetched, but I'm just kind of wondering: if I get admitted into Columbia but not Berkeley, could I appeal at Berkeley and say something like "Look, I don't actually want to go here, I want YOU" ? Probably not, right?

Thanks again for all the advice, this is extremely useful. I love TLS!

I've never heard of that working, but of course you can do that. Nothing's stopping you. The more plausible scenario would be if you ended up on the waitlist at Berkeley and used a Columbia admittance to get off the WL (hopefully with $$).

Yeah that's what I was thinking. Mentioning your Columbia acceptance in your LOCI would probably be a good idea. I don't think they would reconsider a flat rejection though, even if you got into Yale.

[Tom Joad]

Why would a school reconsider any decision based on acceptances to other schools?

It can make a difference for money or if you are yield protected but if you are just WLed because they don't want you that bad an acceptance wouldn't give the school any incentive to let you in.

[Yukos]

Why would a school reconsider any decision based on acceptances to other schools?

It can make a difference for money or if you are yield protected but if you are just WLed because they don't want you that bad an acceptance wouldn't give the school any incentive to let you in.

Saying "I got into Columbia but I'm not paying the deposit yet because I love Boalt so much" is definitely* signaling continuing interest. It doesn't give you any leverage but it might give you a (very small) boost in the same way "Why X" statements do.

[Br3v]

Slightly off topic but I would imagine its of interet to OP, wouldn't OP have a good shot at H?

[Yukos]

Slightly off topic but I would imagine its of interet to OP, wouldn't OP have a good shot at H?

No. OP is below GPA 25th and below the LSAT 75th.

http://myLSN.info/dispresults.php?sk=rjnqf

[puppylaw]

There are certainly people who get into Cal and Stanford and Yale and Harvard with similar numbers to you. It's worth a shot. Here's what I think helped me:

Stellar recommendations from professors I worked with closely. If you're still in undergrad, get to know your professors and be a model student for them. (This will also lead to a better education for you.)

Great work experience after college. International Court of Justice in The Hague and a prestigious award type work experience. Go find something exciting and stimulating and meaningful to do for a couple years before you apply.

A personal statement that I spent a long time getting just right that showed how I was the kind of person an admissions officer would like to have at his or her school.

[outlookingin]

Yeah I'm going to apply to H, but I don't know about my chances... as for my post-graduation experience, it's good but it's not Intl. Tribunal in the Hague good. That's the kind of experience I am afraid the competition at SLS is going to applying with. Just crazy awesome shit that is mond-bogglingly difficult to get into, unless you came from an elite undergrad (which I did not). So... yeah, I think I'll just do my best with these PS and try to demonstrate why those schools are the best for ME, and hopefully they'll feel the same way vice versa haha.

[echamberlin8]

Yeah I'm going to apply to H, but I don't know about my chances... as for my post-graduation experience, it's good but it's not Intl. Tribunal in the Hague good. That's the kind of experience I am afraid the competition at SLS is going to applying with. Just crazy awesome shit that is mond-bogglingly difficult to get into, unless you came from an elite undergrad (which I did not). So... yeah, I think I'll just do my best with these PS and try to demonstrate why those schools are the best for ME, and hopefully they'll feel the same way vice versa haha.

Yeah, honestly, I don't understand how some people who are so young have the WE they do at their age, but such is life, I suppose. I work at a pretty prestigious law firm as a paralegal, and I thought that would be decent work experience, but then I come in here and read stuff like the Internatinoal Tribunal at the Hague. Props to that person.

[2014]

Especially next year, don't underestimate OPs shot at H, though it would be off of the WL.

[outlookingin]

There are certainly people who get into Cal and Stanford and Yale and Harvard with similar numbers to you. It's worth a shot. Here's what I think helped me:

Stellar recommendations from professors I worked with closely. If you're still in undergrad, get to know your professors and be a model student for them. (This will also lead to a better education for you.)

Great work experience after college. International Court of Justice in The Hague and a prestigious award type work experience. Go find something exciting and stimulating and meaningful to do for a couple years before you apply.

A personal statement that I spent a long time getting just right that showed how I was the kind of person an admissions officer would like to have at his or her school.

Whoa. I just looked at your profile-----your WE and PS must have blown them away, damn!!! Congratulations and thank you for the advice.