4.0+ 169 Is an app at Yale worth it?

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RSterling
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4.0+ 169 Is an app at Yale worth it?

Postby RSterling » Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:38 pm

LSAT scores look like this: 166, Cancel (Oct & Dec 2010) and 169 June 2012.

GPA is slightly above 4.0.

After looking at LSN it looks like only two people have gotten into Yale outright (a lot of WL with no further updates, assuming no acceptances there). I'm planning on applying to HS already--I'm just what if y'all would also recommend tossing money at an app to Y. Money isn't exactly plentiful, but I could make it work.

My softs are above-average (they're fairly unique but nothing mind-blowing), and I'll have about 2 years WE working directly with a litigation group (in a semi-paralegal position) by the time I start LS.

Is it worth the $100 gamble on Yale, or should I just stick to HS?

kaiser
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Re: 4.0+ 169 Is an app at Yale worth it?

Postby kaiser » Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:42 pm

Apps to Harvard and Yale would be like flushing money down the toilet

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RSterling
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Re: 4.0+ 169 Is an app at Yale worth it?

Postby RSterling » Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:46 pm

kaiser wrote:Apps to Harvard and Yale would be like flushing money down the toilet


Even H? LSN and lsn.info seems to suggest an ok chance.

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Yukos
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Re: 4.0+ 169 Is an app at Yale worth it?

Postby Yukos » Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:52 pm

RSterling wrote:LSAT scores look like this: 166, Cancel (Oct & Dec 2010) and 169 June 2012.

GPA is slightly above 4.0.

After looking at LSN it looks like only two people have gotten into Yale outright (a lot of WL with no further updates, assuming no acceptances there). I'm planning on applying to HS already--I'm just what if y'all would also recommend tossing money at an app to Y. Money isn't exactly plentiful, but I could make it work.

My softs are above-average (they're fairly unique but nothing mind-blowing), and I'll have about 2 years WE working directly with a litigation group (in a semi-paralegal position) by the time I start LS.

Is it worth the $100 gamble on Yale, or should I just stick to HS?


Could you live with yourself if you didn't apply? I don't have much hope for Y but I would always wonder "what if" if I didn't apply. I think the money is well worth it.

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cogitoergosum
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Re: 4.0+ 169 Is an app at Yale worth it?

Postby cogitoergosum » Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:53 pm

kaiser wrote:Apps to Harvard and Yale would be like flushing money down the toilet

I think this is a bit extreme. ^

You're definitely not in the sweet spot for either of those schools, but that doesn't mean it couldn't happen. I'm a 173/3.2 and I'm waitlisted at both Yale and Harvard, for whatever that's worth. It will come down to how much you can afford to cough up on apps and how above-average you think your softs are.

Good luck.

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mattviphky
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Re: 4.0+ 169 Is an app at Yale worth it?

Postby mattviphky » Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:14 am

if you could spare the money, then yes. Honestly, you'll never know unless you try.

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Re: 4.0+ 169 Is an app at Yale worth it?

Postby FlanSolo » Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:26 am

kaiser wrote:Apps to Harvard and Yale would be like flushing money down the toilet


I know somebody who got into H with those stats exactly.

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RSterling
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Re: 4.0+ 169 Is an app at Yale worth it?

Postby RSterling » Sat Jul 14, 2012 2:05 pm

Thanks for the help everyone. It might very well be a waste of money, but it'll be worth not wondering.

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Doorkeeper
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Re: 4.0+ 169 Is an app at Yale worth it?

Postby Doorkeeper » Sat Jul 14, 2012 4:11 pm

kaiser wrote:Apps to Harvard and Yale would be like flushing money down the toilet

Disregard this idiot. You definitely have a shot for Harvard late in the cycle and/or off the WL, and it's always worth a shot to apply for Yale with a 4.0+. They like the high GPA, and a 169 is only a few points off of their median. It's obviously not likely to get in with a 6% acceptance rate, but it's not a waste of $100.

Definitely throw apps to both. You probably have the highest chance at S too, as they're known to be the most pro-GPA with a sub-170 LSAT of the top 3, so make sure to apply there.

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AreJay711
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Re: 4.0+ 169 Is an app at Yale worth it?

Postby AreJay711 » Sat Jul 14, 2012 4:25 pm

Actually I think you should retake. I had similar stats -- 3.96 / 169 -- and I wish I had. I'm happy with Michigan and would choose it again over H/Y but more money would have been great. I guess I just have regrets because this was pretty low on my practice test numbers and I misread a rule and bombed the LG section because of the misread and running out of time but if there is any indication 169 is not your cap then just retry a couple times to see what happens.

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Elston Gunn
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Re: 4.0+ 169 Is an app at Yale worth it?

Postby Elston Gunn » Sat Jul 14, 2012 7:03 pm

You, like most people with an LSAT below 173, should retake. But otherwise the app is definitely worth it. Good luck!

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RSterling
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Re: 4.0+ 169 Is an app at Yale worth it?

Postby RSterling » Mon Jul 30, 2012 6:39 pm

Elston Gunn wrote:You, like most people with an LSAT below 173, should retake. But otherwise the app is definitely worth it. Good luck!


I've thought about retaking, but I put a fair amount of time studying for my 166 (over a summer), and I spent about 6 months studying for June. Plus, with the 2 year rule I don't think I'd be eligible to retake until February which would mean sitting out another cycle. I was averaging about 171 before June, so I think the drop is nothing too unexpected. I pretty sure I've hit my LSAT ceiling at this point.

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Re: 4.0+ 169 Is an app at Yale worth it?

Postby dixon02 » Mon Jul 30, 2012 6:57 pm

RSterling wrote:
Elston Gunn wrote:You, like most people with an LSAT below 173, should retake. But otherwise the app is definitely worth it. Good luck!


I've thought about retaking, but I put a fair amount of time studying for my 166 (over a summer), and I spent about 6 months studying for June. Plus, with the 2 year rule I don't think I'd be eligible to retake until February which would mean sitting out another cycle. I was averaging about 171 before June, so I think the drop is nothing too unexpected. I pretty sure I've hit my LSAT ceiling at this point.


I felt the exact same way after several LSATs, but I cannot emphasize enough how foolish it was and that you have to overcome this way of thinking. Let's put it another way: how much would I have to pay you to bust your ass and take it one more time? Would you do it for $1,000? My guess is yes; maybe you have to think about it. Now what if I gave you $10,000? I don't think any sane person in their 20s would say not to 10 grand to study really hard for a couple months for a test. How about $50,000?

Now realize that this is exactly the scenario you're in right now. With your GPA and LSAT, every point higher than 169 you score could equal tens of thousands of dollars in scholarship money. That's tens of thousands of dollars, plus interest, that you will not be in debt upon graduation.

I know it sucks, and I know you feel you maxed out. Get over it. I wish someone had emphasized this more for me when I applied.

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haus
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Re: 4.0+ 169 Is an app at Yale worth it?

Postby haus » Mon Jul 30, 2012 7:02 pm

mattviphky wrote:if you could spare the money, then yes. Honestly, you'll never know unless you try.

+1

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Re: 4.0+ 169 Is an app at Yale worth it?

Postby iiibbystar » Mon Jul 30, 2012 7:26 pm

dixon02 wrote:
RSterling wrote:
Elston Gunn wrote:You, like most people with an LSAT below 173, should retake. But otherwise the app is definitely worth it. Good luck!


I've thought about retaking, but I put a fair amount of time studying for my 166 (over a summer), and I spent about 6 months studying for June. Plus, with the 2 year rule I don't think I'd be eligible to retake until February which would mean sitting out another cycle. I was averaging about 171 before June, so I think the drop is nothing too unexpected. I pretty sure I've hit my LSAT ceiling at this point.


I felt the exact same way after several LSATs, but I cannot emphasize enough how foolish it was and that you have to overcome this way of thinking. Let's put it another way: how much would I have to pay you to bust your ass and take it one more time? Would you do it for $1,000? My guess is yes; maybe you have to think about it. Now what if I gave you $10,000? I don't think any sane person in their 20s would say not to 10 grand to study really hard for a couple months for a test. How about $50,000?

Now realize that this is exactly the scenario you're in right now. With your GPA and LSAT, every point higher than 169 you score could equal tens of thousands of dollars in scholarship money. That's tens of thousands of dollars, plus interest, that you will not be in debt upon graduation.

I know it sucks, and I know you feel you maxed out. Get over it. I wish someone had emphasized this more for me when I applied.


I love this piece of advice, even though it's not directed toward me. Thank you!

thederangedwang
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Re: 4.0+ 169 Is an app at Yale worth it?

Postby thederangedwang » Mon Jul 30, 2012 7:28 pm

kaiser wrote:Apps to Harvard and Yale would be like flushing money down the toilet

prob worst advice ive seen given all month

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Re: 4.0+ 169 Is an app at Yale worth it?

Postby bbsg » Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:34 pm

thederangedwang wrote:
kaiser wrote:Apps to Harvard and Yale would be like flushing money down the toilet

prob worst advice ive seen given all month


I bet Kaiser is probably a H/Y hopeful who wants to lessen his competition.

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AreJay711
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Re: 4.0+ 169 Is an app at Yale worth it?

Postby AreJay711 » Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:41 pm

bbsg wrote:
thederangedwang wrote:
kaiser wrote:Apps to Harvard and Yale would be like flushing money down the toilet

prob worst advice ive seen given all month


I bet Kaiser is probably a H/Y hopeful who wants to lessen his competition.

It's not bad advice, it is just a poor analogy: it is much more like playing the lottery. Considering expected value, is it worth playing the lottery? No. But that doesn't mean it is dumb or irrational to play the lottery if the money it costs has no or almost no effect to your utility and the payment from winning would have a large effect. The answer for the OP clearly depends on how tight money is for him or her.

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Yukos
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Re: 4.0+ 169 Is an app at Yale worth it?

Postby Yukos » Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:46 pm

AreJay711 wrote:
bbsg wrote:
thederangedwang wrote:
kaiser wrote:Apps to Harvard and Yale would be like flushing money down the toilet

prob worst advice ive seen given all month


I bet Kaiser is probably a H/Y hopeful who wants to lessen his competition.

It's not bad advice, it is just a poor analogy: it is much more like playing the lottery. Considering expected value, is it worth playing the lottery? No. But that doesn't mean it is dumb or irrational to play the lottery if the money it costs has no or almost no effect to your utility and the payment from winning would have a large effect. The answer for the OP clearly depends on how tight money is for him or her.


Yale might be playing the lottery, but H isn't crazy at all. Over one-third chance to go to Harvard is well worth the money.

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Verity
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Re: 4.0+ 169 Is an app at Yale worth it?

Postby Verity » Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:48 pm

dixon02 wrote:
RSterling wrote:
Elston Gunn wrote:You, like most people with an LSAT below 173, should retake. But otherwise the app is definitely worth it. Good luck!


I've thought about retaking, but I put a fair amount of time studying for my 166 (over a summer), and I spent about 6 months studying for June. Plus, with the 2 year rule I don't think I'd be eligible to retake until February which would mean sitting out another cycle. I was averaging about 171 before June, so I think the drop is nothing too unexpected. I pretty sure I've hit my LSAT ceiling at this point.


I felt the exact same way after several LSATs, but I cannot emphasize enough how foolish it was and that you have to overcome this way of thinking. Let's put it another way: how much would I have to pay you to bust your ass and take it one more time? Would you do it for $1,000? My guess is yes; maybe you have to think about it. Now what if I gave you $10,000? I don't think any sane person in their 20s would say not to 10 grand to study really hard for a couple months for a test. How about $50,000?

Now realize that this is exactly the scenario you're in right now. With your GPA and LSAT, every point higher than 169 you score could equal tens of thousands of dollars in scholarship money. That's tens of thousands of dollars, plus interest, that you will not be in debt upon graduation.

I know it sucks, and I know you feel you maxed out. Get over it. I wish someone had emphasized this more for me when I applied.


+1. You couldn't find a better return on such a minimal investment. Let's hope you don't realize that only in hindsight.

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AreJay711
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Re: 4.0+ 169 Is an app at Yale worth it?

Postby AreJay711 » Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:50 pm

Yukos wrote:
Yale might be playing the lottery, but H isn't crazy at all. Over one-third chance to go to Harvard is well worth the money.

Yeah seems like it has gotten easier. Still, analytically it depends on money.

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Yukos
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Re: 4.0+ 169 Is an app at Yale worth it?

Postby Yukos » Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:57 pm

AreJay711 wrote:
Yukos wrote:
Yale might be playing the lottery, but H isn't crazy at all. Over one-third chance to go to Harvard is well worth the money.

Yeah seems like it has gotten easier. Still, analytically it depends on money.


I'm no economist but it seems like the whole thing isn't calculable since the marginal benefit of going to, eg, Harvard over Chicago is impossible to quantify.

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RSterling
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Re: 4.0+ 169 Is an app at Yale worth it?

Postby RSterling » Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:42 am

dixon02 wrote:
RSterling wrote:
Elston Gunn wrote:You, like most people with an LSAT below 173, should retake. But otherwise the app is definitely worth it. Good luck!


I've thought about retaking, but I put a fair amount of time studying for my 166 (over a summer), and I spent about 6 months studying for June. Plus, with the 2 year rule I don't think I'd be eligible to retake until February which would mean sitting out another cycle. I was averaging about 171 before June, so I think the drop is nothing too unexpected. I pretty sure I've hit my LSAT ceiling at this point.


I felt the exact same way after several LSATs, but I cannot emphasize enough how foolish it was and that you have to overcome this way of thinking. Let's put it another way: how much would I have to pay you to bust your ass and take it one more time? Would you do it for $1,000? My guess is yes; maybe you have to think about it. Now what if I gave you $10,000? I don't think any sane person in their 20s would say not to 10 grand to study really hard for a couple months for a test. How about $50,000?

Now realize that this is exactly the scenario you're in right now. With your GPA and LSAT, every point higher than 169 you score could equal tens of thousands of dollars in scholarship money. That's tens of thousands of dollars, plus interest, that you will not be in debt upon graduation.

I know it sucks, and I know you feel you maxed out. Get over it. I wish someone had emphasized this more for me when I applied.


I totally get what you're getting at. The only thing is that from January until June, basically all of my free time was dedicated to studying. I put in a ton of sustained effort.

If I was told that I was guaranteed a 175+ if I waited out a year, I would definitely do it. But at this point I think the odds of me making a substantial gain is on the lower end. I think the odds of doing about the same or below is at least 50%. If I'd only taken the LSAT once, I'd totally be with you. But going in for a fourth time has much less chance to be drastically different.

I'm comfortable with where I'm at. I took time off after college to try and squeeze money out of the T14 after getting a 166 and I'll be able to do that. Am I going to get the Hamilton? No. But I'm in a much better place than where I was a couple years ago.




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