Retake a third time?

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j-select
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Retake a third time?

Postby j-select » Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:36 pm

157 first try.

160 second try.

I consistently PT in the low 170s. However, I have bombed both LSAT attempts. I don't know why.

3.68 GPA - lower due to my first two years spent playing varsity athletics. After I realized I wanted to attend law school, I quit athletics and joint the debate team and student senate.

I have 1 year WE at the DC Superior Courts, and 1 year in the US Senate. Great LOCs. I also volunteer weekly.

I am aiming at GULC part-time - joint JD/philosophy MA degree. The reason for my interest in a joint degree: philosophy major in undergrad and hoping to work in health care policy/applied ethics.

I am familiar with what LSN and LSP tell me about my chances. However, I am wondering if anybody has any advice regarding my odds at GULC part-time. In addition to my numbers, I am wondering how an ED and a demonstrated commitment to GULC on a focused track would be viewed by the admissions board. I would consider American or GW, but neither offers a joint degree in philosophy. Given my aforementioned vocational goals, I want to go to GULC.

If I were you guys, I would assume that the "consistently PT in the low 170s" claim was bull shit. However, the fact that there is an honest disparity between my PTs and my actual LSAT is the only reason I am not ready to accept my first or second try.

I would really appreciate any advice/insight anyone can offer.

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TopHatToad
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Re: Retake a third time?

Postby TopHatToad » Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:04 pm

Sounds like you need to identify the source of the disparity before you go and use up your last shot-- and yes, I believe you should absolutely retake. Are your PTs under real conditions, such as timing, noise, and completely fresh materials? Do you experience anxiety on test day that doesn't appear beforehand? Also, since you have two testings to look back on, where did you fall short? Did you bomb one section or lose points all across the board?

Basically, if I were you I'd want to come reasonably close to my PT average before applying to schools, but unless you can pinpoint the nature of your problem that last shot will likely turn out like the first two. Also, that dual degree is probably a bad idea unless you have a very specific career goal and the connections to get it. Doing anything simultaneously with your LS classes will hurt grades, which hurts class ranking, which... you get the idea.

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Campagnolo
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Re: Retake a third time?

Postby Campagnolo » Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:19 pm

At first I experienced a disparity between my practice tests and "real" practice tests. It ultimately boiled down to being very exacting with how I took PTs. It's too tempting to give yourself the extra 5 seconds at the end of a section or to grade a section right after you finish before moving on the the next section.

Don't do this.

It's a natural tendency, but you should try to be as strict as possible with yourself. See if you can get someone else to proctor for you, or use a computer timer. Think of your low 170s scores as proving that you have the potential. But as with sports, it's one thing to perform in scrimmage and another to show up and play big on game day.

Be ruthless in your preparation, exam taking, and review.

j-select
Posts: 92
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2012 6:42 pm

Re: Retake a third time?

Postby j-select » Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:56 pm

TopHatToad wrote:Sounds like you need to identify the source of the disparity before you go and use up your last shot-- and yes, I believe you should absolutely retake. Are your PTs under real conditions, such as timing, noise, and completely fresh materials? Do you experience anxiety on test day that doesn't appear beforehand? Also, since you have two testings to look back on, where did you fall short? Did you bomb one section or lose points all across the board?

Basically, if I were you I'd want to come reasonably close to my PT average before applying to schools, but unless you can pinpoint the nature of your problem that last shot will likely turn out like the first two. Also, that dual degree is probably a bad idea unless you have a very specific career goal and the connections to get it. Doing anything simultaneously with your LS classes will hurt grades, which hurts class ranking, which... you get the idea.



Thank you for your reply.

The first try was in February. Although I am unsure which sections hurt me specifically, I do know that the first of the two logic games gave me trouble. In my second attempt, I did much better on games. However, the first of two RC sections appeared first on the test. In addition to my poor RC section, I bombed one of the LR sections. I scored a 22 and a 24 on the LG and other LR section, respectively. RC has seemed to be the most unpredictable for me, though.

I do get extremely nervous on test day. I do do tests under timed conditions. However, I have started running into familiar material. Any advice on how to avoid freaking myself out if I try again? Any advice on good books to help with RC? I have all of the Powerscore bibles.

Again, thank you for your advice.

j-select
Posts: 92
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2012 6:42 pm

Re: Retake a third time?

Postby j-select » Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:00 pm

Campagnolo wrote:At first I experienced a disparity between my practice tests and "real" practice tests. It ultimately boiled down to being very exacting with how I took PTs. It's too tempting to give yourself the extra 5 seconds at the end of a section or to grade a section right after you finish before moving on the the next section.

Don't do this.

It's a natural tendency, but you should try to be as strict as possible with yourself. See if you can get someone else to proctor for you, or use a computer timer. Think of your low 170s scores as proving that you have the potential. But as with sports, it's one thing to perform in scrimmage and another to show up and play big on game day.

Be ruthless in your preparation, exam taking, and review.


Thanks for your reply.

I do try to adhere to the time constraints as closely as possible. I also admit that I do get nervous on test day.

Is the consensus that I should for sure retake a third time? If so, any schedule advice on how to study but avoid becoming burnt out?

j-select
Posts: 92
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Re: Retake a third time?

Postby j-select » Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:01 pm

j-select wrote:
Campagnolo wrote:At first I experienced a disparity between my practice tests and "real" practice tests. It ultimately boiled down to being very exacting with how I took PTs. It's too tempting to give yourself the extra 5 seconds at the end of a section or to grade a section right after you finish before moving on the the next section.

Don't do this.

It's a natural tendency, but you should try to be as strict as possible with yourself. See if you can get someone else to proctor for you, or use a computer timer. Think of your low 170s scores as proving that you have the potential. But as with sports, it's one thing to perform in scrimmage and another to show up and play big on game day.

Be ruthless in your preparation, exam taking, and review.


Thanks for your reply.

I do try to adhere to the time constraints as closely as possible. I also admit that I do get nervous on test day.

Is the consensus that I should for sure retake a third time? If so, any schedule advice on how to study but avoid becoming burnt out?


Thanks again.

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Campagnolo
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Re: Retake a third time?

Postby Campagnolo » Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:42 pm

Retake. Getting burned out is hardly a concern. Study hard, working to eliminate every weakness you have. If nerves get you, study every question out there and go into the test armed with confidence because you know there's nothing they can throw at you that you haven't seen before. I mean, there are only so many logical constructions, and there are only so many ways they can be combined. Go and master them.

Confidence is huge. Go get some.

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Nova
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Re: Retake a third time?

Postby Nova » Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:18 pm

j-select wrote:157 first try.
160 second try.
I consistently PT in the low 170s. However, I have bombed both LSAT attempts. I don't know why.

j-select wrote:Is the consensus that I should for sure retake a third time?


Yes, the consensus is retake in October or regret not retaking for the rest of your life.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=396

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CanadianWolf
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Re: Retake a third time?

Postby CanadianWolf » Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:21 pm

Retake.

j-select
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Re: Retake a third time?

Postby j-select » Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:41 pm

Thank you for the advice, everyone.

I know there has been a lot of discussion about taking it more than twice. But, does any one have any insight into how that could affect my chances? I assume a 157, 160, 170 will look better than a 157, 160. Does anyone disagree with the thought that a significantly higher third score wouldn't significantly increase my appeal to law schools?

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Nova
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Re: Retake a third time?

Postby Nova » Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:44 pm

j-select wrote:Does anyone disagree with the thought that a significantly higher third score wouldn't significantly increase my appeal to law schools?


No. If you hit median, your chances increase dramatically across the board, no matter what.

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Campagnolo
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Re: Retake a third time?

Postby Campagnolo » Thu Jul 05, 2012 4:21 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:Retake.

j-select
Posts: 92
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Re: Retake a third time?

Postby j-select » Thu Jul 05, 2012 5:33 pm

Thanks, everyone. I really appreciate it.




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