Should I retake a 173 for YHS

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Starships
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Should I retake a 173 for YHS

Postby Starships » Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:57 pm

173 and a 3.85 from HYP

Uninteresting but existent softs (on campus publications editorial positions and decent law-related extra curricular + summer internships)

When I took the test, I was PT'ing at 176, ranging from 174-180. But that was a year ago.

Really interested in Harvard. Due to the relatively linear nature of law school admissions, I am thinking that I am below a threshold such that a re-take might be necessary to earn a spot at YHS (specifically Harvard, I understand the other two consider softs to an extent that makes them unpredictable).

However, I would be over the moon at CCN, and I understand the risks involved with re-taking are substantial. So I am a bit torn- really looking to see how much a re-take matters at this level for H

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Doorkeeper
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Re: Should I retake a 173 for YHS

Postby Doorkeeper » Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:10 pm

You're in at CCN with money. You have a good shot at HYS. Re-taking and going from a 173 to a 175 won't really be helpful. It would be better to spend that time working on your personal statement and such.

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Law Sauce
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Re: Should I retake a 173 for YHS

Postby Law Sauce » Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:23 pm

Depends on how hard you worked for it. If you prepared well, I think that you should be happy with it, there is a very small margin for error to increase. However if you didn't prepare as well as you could, perhaps you could get a few more points. Honestly, I don't think it is too risky to retake, but I also think that it is unnecessary because the way that admissions (at least at H on down) work is that schools take people that are above one or the other median in order to bring up medians. There are very few candidates that have such strong (though perhaps not exceptional) scores on both fronts. So, I think that you likely have a solid shot as it is. Plus, if you are from H, I hear that they like their own (Y or P will also help somewhat). If I were you, I'd work on my resume, statements, Yale250 etc. and only retake if I absolutely felt I would do better. If you don't get H, I don't think that you could go wrong taking $$$ at a T6.

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Lovely Ludwig Van
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Re: Should I retake a 173 for YHS

Postby Lovely Ludwig Van » Mon Jun 11, 2012 9:23 pm

Starships wrote:173 and a 3.85 from HYP

Uninteresting but existent softs (on campus publications editorial positions and decent law-related extra curricular + summer internships)

When I took the test, I was PT'ing at 176, ranging from 174-180. But that was a year ago.

Really interested in Harvard. Due to the relatively linear nature of law school admissions, I am thinking that I am below a threshold such that a re-take might be necessary to earn a spot at YHS (specifically Harvard, I understand the other two consider softs to an extent that makes them unpredictable).

However, I would be over the moon at CCN, and I understand the risks involved with re-taking are substantial. So I am a bit torn- really looking to see how much a re-take matters at this level for H


Dude, don't retake. You're in.

It's well-known that HYPS undergrad = a slight increase in GPA libido for purposes of admission.

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mindarmed
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Re: Should I retake a 173 for YHS

Postby mindarmed » Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:00 pm

Lovely Ludwig Van wrote:
Starships wrote:173 and a 3.85 from HYP

Uninteresting but existent softs (on campus publications editorial positions and decent law-related extra curricular + summer internships)

When I took the test, I was PT'ing at 176, ranging from 174-180. But that was a year ago.

Really interested in Harvard. Due to the relatively linear nature of law school admissions, I am thinking that I am below a threshold such that a re-take might be necessary to earn a spot at YHS (specifically Harvard, I understand the other two consider softs to an extent that makes them unpredictable).

However, I would be over the moon at CCN, and I understand the risks involved with re-taking are substantial. So I am a bit torn- really looking to see how much a re-take matters at this level for H


Dude, don't retake. You're in.

It's well-known that HYPS undergrad = a slight increase in GPA libido for purposes of admission.


Subtle MIT trolling.

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Elston Gunn
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Re: Should I retake a 173 for YHS

Postby Elston Gunn » Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:21 pm

Well, you're below both medians at YH. With HYP undergrad, let's bump you up to median GPA at H. That would make you median GPA, just below median LSAT. That's iffy. Do you have any work experience?

I think if you really want HYS, and you were PT'ing at 176, a retake might actually be worth it.

Starships
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Re: Should I retake a 173 for YHS

Postby Starships » Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:09 pm

No work experience - still in college.

I do know that my gpa (according to the career services people) is slightly above ( a few hundredths) the mean-not median, which is not given to us- of students from my school matriculating at YH

I was under the impression that 173 was on the median for YH?

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JamMasterJ
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Re: Should I retake a 173 for YHS

Postby JamMasterJ » Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:16 pm

how strongly do you feel about your chances of scoring below a 171? Because that's the only (tiny) shot you have at losing CCN. I would probably retake if you think the odds of going 170 or lower are around 10%.

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Bildungsroman
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Re: Should I retake a 173 for YHS

Postby Bildungsroman » Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:30 pm

I know several people with 3.85/173 and none of them got HYS. YMMV

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StrictlyBusiness
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Re: Should I retake a 173 for YHS

Postby StrictlyBusiness » Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:36 pm

I was in an almost identical situation to you (though better GPA at a lesser school), and ended up not retaking after I had a successful cycle with CCNs. Also this suggests that you won't improve as much as you think:

http://www.lsac.org/LSACResources/Data/ ... erdata.pdf

If you're confident you can do better and wanna do Yale, I say why not, but I think you'll get H as is so don't kill yourself for an extra point or two.

Starships
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Re: Should I retake a 173 for YHS

Postby Starships » Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:43 am

After being out of the LSAT study mode for a year, I believe I would not be able to study up in time for this cycle- so the question presents itself

1) Go in this cycle (my original plan) and see what happens (according to LSN, my chances don't look terrible- do people have insight on its accuracy? It seems to me like there might be a self selection problem: http://harvard.lawschoolnumbers.com/app ... ype=jd&p=1)

2) Wait a year, work somewhere and study, and then apply next fall (Fall of 2013)

3) Apply this cycle, and revert to option 2 if things don't work out


Key questions for y'all-
-How much does Work Experience matter (if for only a year)
-Does it become too risky to forgo an acceptance in the hand to apply during the following cycle (does anyone actually do this?)

And more practically- what is the difference as, far as non-academia employment prospects, between Harvard and a CCN (I'm assuming YS are out of the picture for lack of softs)? I can't find any really good answers on this, just general "it's Harvard" stuff.

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Kronk
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Re: Should I retake a 173 for YHS

Postby Kronk » Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:49 am

Starships wrote:173 and a 3.85 from HYP

Uninteresting but existent softs (on campus publications editorial positions and decent law-related extra curricular + summer internships)

When I took the test, I was PT'ing at 176, ranging from 174-180. But that was a year ago.

Really interested in Harvard. Due to the relatively linear nature of law school admissions, I am thinking that I am below a threshold such that a re-take might be necessary to earn a spot at YHS (specifically Harvard, I understand the other two consider softs to an extent that makes them unpredictable).

However, I would be over the moon at CCN, and I understand the risks involved with re-taking are substantial. So I am a bit torn- really looking to see how much a re-take matters at this level for H



I would guess, with the UG ties, you are in at Harvard. BUT. We had very similar numbers, I had a slightly higher GPA, but not from as prestigious a UG, and I struck out at HYS. I think a 175 makes it basically guaranteed, and I don't think there is much of a risk with a retake like you suggest. You'll still be a 173 / 3.85 candidate even if you score lower, so no biggie.

I only got $$ at Chicago of CCN, by the way, but I agree that you are a lock at those three unless Columbia decides to hold you and wait for LOCIs and stuff--but eventually you're in.

Starships
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Re: Should I retake a 173 for YHS

Postby Starships » Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:28 pm

Is there any truth to the "they say they average LSAT's, but they really don't for ranking purposes" line of thinking? Why do they say they average (I know Harvard claims they do) if they really don't?

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Kronk
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Re: Should I retake a 173 for YHS

Postby Kronk » Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:31 pm

Starships wrote:Is there any truth to the "they say they average LSAT's, but they really don't for ranking purposes" line of thinking? Why do they say they average (I know Harvard claims they do) if they really don't?


It would be irrational w/r/t USNWR to average LSATs. It is without a doubt not a strict average, just based on experience. I have two scores. I wrote an addendum for the first and thought I had a pretty decent excuse, but if it was a strict average I don't think I would've had the numbers to get into anywhere in the T6.

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ScratchableItch
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Re: Should I retake a 173 for YHS

Postby ScratchableItch » Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:45 pm

Kronk wrote:I would guess, with the UG ties, you are in at Harvard. BUT. We had very similar numbers, I had a slightly higher GPA, but not from as prestigious a UG, and I struck out at HYS. I think a 175 makes it basically guaranteed, and I don't think there is much of a risk with a retake like you suggest. You'll still be a 173 / 3.85 candidate even if you score lower, so no biggie.

I wouldn't say the bolded is true. I had a higher GPA from a non-prestigious undergrad, 175 (retake), straight out of undergrad, and was waitlisted at HY and S.

Starships wrote:Key questions for y'all-
-How much does Work Experience matter (if for only a year)

I think it can make a difference, and I am actually considering taking my next year off to work. A few opportunities have opened up for me that I think would be worthwhile. I think that a year off will be good both for applications and also my personal development.

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lizaregina
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Re: Should I retake a 173 for YHS

Postby lizaregina » Mon Jun 18, 2012 4:15 pm

I got into YH and WL'd at S with a slightly lower gpa (3.8) and same LSAT if that's helpful.

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acrossthelake
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Re: Should I retake a 173 for YHS

Postby acrossthelake » Mon Jun 18, 2012 4:18 pm

I can only seeing it help at HLS.

If you look at SLS admissions, once your GPA is esatblished and your LSAT is at least 171, your odds are fairly flat as your LSAT goes up. The LSAT seems to be rather thres-holdy for them, they prefer a 3.9/172 to a 3.7X/180.

YLS is too black-boxy to really say.

WE is a good idea for OCI purposes.

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Elston Gunn
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Re: Should I retake a 173 for YHS

Postby Elston Gunn » Mon Jun 18, 2012 4:21 pm

Starships wrote:I was under the impression that 173 was on the median for YH?


LSN school profile says 174 at H, but it could have dropped this year. Almost positive it's 174 for Y.

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soj
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Re: Should I retake a 173 for YHS

Postby soj » Mon Jun 18, 2012 5:21 pm

Elston Gunn wrote:
Starships wrote:I was under the impression that 173 was on the median for YH?


LSN school profile says 174 at H, but it could have dropped this year. Almost positive it's 174 for Y.

H and Y both have 173 medians for the class of 2014. (Source: ABA)

Starships
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Re: Should I retake a 173 for YHS

Postby Starships » Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:18 pm

I guess something important to this decision is what people also think about the next 3 schools- are any of CCN a sure thing? If so, it seems like a better idea to sit on what I have. If not, it seems like a much better idea to go for the gusto and re-take.

It seems like last year must have been an aberration with Nyu for similar numbers, or maybe not a large enough sample size- is that right or am I missing something?

I'm looking at this for NYU: http://nyu.lawschoolnumbers.com/applica ... ype=jd&p=1

But then I see this at Chi, which is much less encouraging: http://chicago.lawschoolnumbers.com/app ... ype=jd&p=1


Does anyone have insight on the likelihood of being in this range and not getting any of CCN?




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