172/3.8 Retake for HYS (?) Forum

[Skunky Bumps]

Title pretty much says it all. As an undergrad with typical undergrad softs, I realize I'm an outside chance for HYS (especially with no WE). I took the LSAT in Feb. and I believe roughly half of my missed questions were in RC, which I hardly studied at all. I believe I can improve my score if I study over the summer and retake in Oct. If I really want HYS, what is the best plan of attack? Take the LSAT again in Oct? Maybe Feb? Or should I sit on my 172 and hope for a favorable cycle? Thanks.

[Tom Joad]

So you haven't applied to any schools yet?

[thebigspoon]

you have an outside chance now depending on how well you can write a PS or if you're a URM. here's how my cycle went, i think yours would be similar.
http://lawschoolnumbers.com/thebigspoon
with our numbers H is pretty much a crap shoot, S will be hard because they love high GPAs (~3.9), and Yale is freakin Yale. To make yourself more or less HYS secure, I'd think you need like 177+. its definitely doable but its hard to predict how you'll react under pressure. I was averaging around 178 and ended up with a 174.

[soj]

FYI, with the right application, you can get a T14 full ride. I'm thinking of places like NU (through binding ED), Duke, and Michigan. People can become more debt-averse over time (just wait till you start getting into schools and doing monthly payment calculations), so try to keep these options open.

I don't see you getting H with numbers below both medians. YS aren't impossible but definitely big reaches. Retaking will help, but you'll have to get mid 170s, ideally high 170s. October is obviously better than February if you're planning to apply next cycle, but retake when you're ready.

[Doorkeeper]

I think this depends, in large part, on whether your GPA is a 3.88 or a 3.81. If over 3.85 you definitely have a shot at S and H. Bumping your LSAT would really only matter if you can get a 175+.

[bmore]

Beware generalizations. Same LSAt GPA 3.86. Feb tester too. Good softs for undergrad K-J.D. Denied from H. No money NYU. 7-10 are funny/unpredicatable and really require a "Why" statement. $$$ at rest (that applied to). Of course this was last year. I am sure this year and next had better turnouts for similar scores. So for HYS, yes, retake.

[twenty]

I believe I can improve my score if I study over the summer and retake in Oct.

This is where I stopped reading. If you think you can do better, retake.

Honestly, though, consider the possibility you're more likely for a full ride at low-mid T14. I'd definitely take a full ride at somewhere like Penn/Virginia over sticker at Chicago.

[Nelson]

I believe I can improve my score if I study over the summer and retake in Oct.

This is where I stopped reading. If you think you can do better, retake.

Honestly, though, consider the possibility you're more likely for a full ride at low-mid T14. I'd definitely take a full ride at somewhere like Penn/Virginia over sticker at Chicago.

ED to Northwestern is probably OP's only reasonable chance at a T14 full ride if that GPA is <3.85

[Skunky Bumps]

So you haven't applied to any schools yet?

Not yet. I'll be applying this fall. Looking for insight as to a plan of attack for my cycle.

[Skunky Bumps]

you have an outside chance now depending on how well you can write a PS or if you're a URM. here's how my cycle went, i think yours would be similar.
http://lawschoolnumbers.com/thebigspoon
with our numbers H is pretty much a crap shoot, S will be hard because they love high GPAs (~3.9), and Yale is freakin Yale. To make yourself more or less HYS secure, I'd think you need like 177+. its definitely doable but its hard to predict how you'll react under pressure. I was averaging around 178 and ended up with a 174.

I envy your cycle with regards to $. Also, I don't think pressure will be a big deal for me. I was PTing 172/3 (with one 174) very consistently. I realize the margin of error is minuscule at the top of the score chart, but I'm fairly confident I can nail it down over the summer.

[Skunky Bumps]

I think this depends, in large part, on whether your GPA is a 3.88 or a 3.81. If over 3.85 you definitely have a shot at S and H. Bumping your LSAT would really only matter if you can get a 175+.

Unfortunately, I'm looking at a 3.80 rather than 3.88. Also, not URM.

[Skunky Bumps]

I believe I can improve my score if I study over the summer and retake in Oct.

This is where I stopped reading. If you think you can do better, retake.

Honestly, though, consider the possibility you're more likely for a full ride at low-mid T14. I'd definitely take a full ride at somewhere like Penn/Virginia over sticker at Chicago.

ED to Northwestern is probably OP's only reasonable chance at a T14 full ride if that GPA is <3.85

This seems to be what I've gathered from LSN. My numbers are good but not T-14 full ride good. A few more points, however, might make quite a difference. I believe I can pick up a few more.

[BruceDenton]

I'd say retake and go for HYS, even if it means a year off. Exit options are that much better than CCN and you're almost there.

[woeisme]

Title pretty much says it all. As an undergrad with typical undergrad softs, I realize I'm an outside chance for HYS (especially with no WE). I took the LSAT in Feb. and I believe roughly half of my missed questions were in RC, which I hardly studied at all. I believe I can improve my score if I study over the summer and retake in Oct. If I really want HYS, what is the best plan of attack? Take the LSAT again in Oct? Maybe Feb? Or should I sit on my 172 and hope for a favorable cycle? Thanks.

If finances permit, do both. Apply and see what happens and also plan on retaking.

[CanadianWolf]

Great advice offered in this thread. Poster "woeisme" sums it up most succinctly, however. Good luck !

[echamberlin8]

I'm interested in this thread, because I'm also very curious about what kind of GPA floors HYS (and Chicago, since I know their GPA standards have risen up to be comparable with the top 3) have.

I have a 3.73 GPA, and I'm a bit worried that even with a 176+ LSAT that I won't have a shot at any of HYS. There are a few people on LSN with 3.7's and an acceptance at H with above a 175, but from all I've heard, YS both have pretty solid 3.8 GPA floors for non-URMs. Can anyone confirm this? What about Chicago? Will a 3.7 get me into a school that supposedly now has a 3.87 GPA median?

[Doorkeeper]

I think this depends, in large part, on whether your GPA is a 3.88 or a 3.81. If over 3.85 you definitely have a shot at S and H. Bumping your LSAT would really only matter if you can get a 175+.

Unfortunately, I'm looking at a 3.80 rather than 3.88. Also, not URM.

Ouch. You're in such a difficult zone then. If you're very confident you can get above a 174, then do it. Harvard doesn't like re-takes and getting a 1-2 point difference really isn't going to matter. The best thing you can do is bump your GPA (Study for those finals!)

[echamberlin8]

I think this depends, in large part, on whether your GPA is a 3.88 or a 3.81. If over 3.85 you definitely have a shot at S and H. Bumping your LSAT would really only matter if you can get a 175+.

Unfortunately, I'm looking at a 3.80 rather than 3.88. Also, not URM.

Ouch. You're in such a difficult zone then. If you're very confident you can get above a 174, then do it. Harvard doesn't like re-takes and getting a 1-2 point difference really isn't going to matter. The best thing you can do is bump your GPA (Study for those finals!)

Good to know that Harvard doesn't like re-takes. I do remember their policy reading something like, "The LSAT need only be taken once." What a bad-ass way to put that! Luckily I haven't taken the LSAT yet and I'm taking it in October, so I have 5 more months to study (I've been studying for about the last month).

I think if the OP got a 176 or higher on his re-take he'd still have a shot at Harvard.

Harvard gives someone with 3-4 years' worth of WE at the time of matriculation a bit of a numbers advantage over someone doing K-JD with their new dean, right? I've heard him say that it's a good thing to get out of college for a few years before going back to law school. I wonder what types of work experience they view as being "acceptable," and what types they would particularly like.

For me, I think I can use working at a big law firm as a paralegal to my advantage, since it gives me a clear reason for why I want to go to law school, since I already know quite a bit about the industry and the field, and have real, day-to-day interaction with lawyers.

Just speculating about Harvard here. OP, I say re-take if you truly believe you can get above a 175. I think a 175 or higher would give you a shot at Harvard. For Stanford, I think you'd be an outside shot, but also with a 175 and up I think you'd be a contender. Not sure of one's chances with Yale with a 3.80. I see that you're still in undergrad, though, so you can still bring that up.

[Funkycrime]

I feel your pain as someone sitting on the HYS cutoff of 3.80. Not a bad place to be at all, but a 3.8 and a 3.9 seems to be the most consequential difference in terms of T-14 worthy GPAs.

[echamberlin8]

I feel your pain as someone sitting on the HYS cutoff of 3.80. Not a bad place to be at all, but a 3.8 and a 3.9 seems to be the most consequential difference in terms of T-14 worthy GPAs.

Yeah, I'm also in the same problem, although I'm somewhat on the cut-off for Harvard. I have a 3.73, which I know is below Yale and Stanford's standards.

Do you guys think with a 3.73 and 3-4 years' of work experience (half of it very relevant to BigLaw work) that one has a shot at Harvard? I know they look highly at work experience there.

[Nelson]

I feel your pain as someone sitting on the HYS cutoff of 3.80. Not a bad place to be at all, but a 3.8 and a 3.9 seems to be the most consequential difference in terms of T-14 worthy GPAs.

Yeah, I'm also in the same problem, although I'm somewhat on the cut-off for Harvard. I have a 3.73, which I know is below Yale and Stanford's standards.

Do you guys think with a 3.73 and 3-4 years' of work experience (half of it very relevant to BigLaw work) that one has a shot at Harvard? I know they look highly at work experience there.

It's a soft floor, but your chances aren't good. Non-URM 3.7x's have fared badly at Harvard this cycle (at least according to the TLS and LSN sample). A 176+ LSAT is a must with a GPA that low. Your work experience really doesn't matter much since most of the applicant pool has work experience, most of it pretty good.

[echamberlin8]

I feel your pain as someone sitting on the HYS cutoff of 3.80. Not a bad place to be at all, but a 3.8 and a 3.9 seems to be the most consequential difference in terms of T-14 worthy GPAs.

Yeah, I'm also in the same problem, although I'm somewhat on the cut-off for Harvard. I have a 3.73, which I know is below Yale and Stanford's standards.

Do you guys think with a 3.73 and 3-4 years' of work experience (half of it very relevant to BigLaw work) that one has a shot at Harvard? I know they look highly at work experience there.

It's a soft floor, but your chances aren't good. Non-URM 3.7x's have fared badly at Harvard this cycle (at least according to the TLS and LSN sample). A 176+ LSAT is a must with a GPA that low. Your work experience really doesn't matter much since most of the applicant pool has work experience, most of it pretty good.

Yep, I looked at LSN for Harvard too. But I did find a white male with 1-2 years out of college from the DC area with my exact same GPA who got in with a 176 to Harvard (I'm also from the DC area, and yes I'm aware this doesn't matter too much), so I'm putting all my hopes in that!

[094320]

..

[soj]

In my cycle, 176+ LSAT seemed rather necessary to get in with 3.7-3.8 for HLS. Retake.

This seems true of this cycle, too.

[madvillain]

I agree with the advice given in this thread. I applied this cycle with a 3.85/179 and I was rejected from Y and S, and initially held by H before being accepted just a few weeks ago, in late April- basically the last round of admits. So I barely made it in. From my experience, then, I would recommend a retake for H, if that is what you want.