Graduate Student/Splitter New York Schools

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RainMan
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Graduate Student/Splitter New York Schools

Postby RainMan » Mon Apr 09, 2012 3:28 pm

I graduated in last may in 2011 with a 2.25 GPA for reasons that I would not be able to fully explain in an addendum (I changed majors and tried to transfer). I currently a Media and Communications graduate student with a 3.5 GPA and will graduate in December. I scored a 170 on the LSAT. I really want to go to law school in New York but I think my GPA will prevent me. I have letters of recommendation from a U Chicago teaching graduate and a New York judge ( I am pursuing a third). I also have done volunteer work for a hospice. Any personal statement recommendations? Thank you for any help in advance...

Schools I am looking at:
Touro
Syracuse
New York Law
St. John's (Legacy)
Hofstra

8)
Last edited by RainMan on Mon Apr 09, 2012 4:38 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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MrPapagiorgio
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Re: What are my chances as a graduate student??

Postby MrPapagiorgio » Mon Apr 09, 2012 3:32 pm

Grad school GPAs are not calculated in the LSDAS GPA, so most schools do not give them much weight. They will have to report the 2.25, not the 3.5, which would be detrimental to their 25-75/median stats. You've got plenty of time to retake the LSAT for next cycle, and if you score 175+, you've got a better chance at some splitter-friendly schools (though maybe not in NY).

DTDT
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Re: Graduate Student/Splitter New York Schools

Postby DTDT » Tue Apr 10, 2012 1:19 pm

You should get in those schools you listed based on your LSAT even with a shitty GPA.

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2014
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Re: Graduate Student/Splitter New York Schools

Postby 2014 » Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:01 am

flem wrote:
DTDT wrote:You should get in those schools you listed based on your LSAT even with a shitty GPA.


That doesn't mean you should go there bruh.

Why NYC? WUSTL will take you with a 170. You have a super outside shot at NU. Don't waste a 170 on these places. Your GPA will make it tough but not impossible. You'll have zero options coming out of these toilets.

WUSTL is not taking a 2.25. I know it's easy to assume that anyone with a 168 and a pulse gets in, but 2.25 is low.

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lisjjen
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Re: Graduate Student/Splitter New York Schools

Postby lisjjen » Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:04 am

Any work experience? Any URM?

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lisjjen
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Re: Graduate Student/Splitter New York Schools

Postby lisjjen » Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:06 am

Also, why would you ever tell somebody with a 170 to retake? I know law students don't do numbers, but statistically, when you retake an absurdly high LSAT, you are just asking to get a lower score.

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Nelson
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Re: Graduate Student/Splitter New York Schools

Postby Nelson » Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:35 am

lisjjen wrote:Also, why would you ever tell somebody with a 170 to retake? I know law students don't do numbers, but statistically, when you retake an absurdly high LSAT, you are just asking to get a lower score.

According to LSAC's own statistics, most people who retake a 170 do better, not worse.

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Mr. Somebody
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Re: Graduate Student/Splitter New York Schools

Postby Mr. Somebody » Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:42 am

Nelson wrote:
lisjjen wrote:Also, why would you ever tell somebody with a 170 to retake? I know law students don't do numbers, but statistically, when you retake an absurdly high LSAT, you are just asking to get a lower score.

According to LSAC's own statistics, most people who retake a 170 do better, not worse.

Where do you find this info? Just curious

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Graduate Student/Splitter New York Schools

Postby Tiago Splitter » Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:17 pm

Mr. Somebody wrote:
Nelson wrote:
lisjjen wrote:Also, why would you ever tell somebody with a 170 to retake? I know law students don't do numbers, but statistically, when you retake an absurdly high LSAT, you are just asking to get a lower score.

According to LSAC's own statistics, most people who retake a 170 do better, not worse.

Where do you find this info? Just curious


http://www.manhattanlsat.com/blog/index ... manifesto/

Also, it may seem hard to believe WUSTL will take a 2.25 but it's not out of the question. They dip real low.

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RainMan
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Re: Graduate Student/Splitter New York Schools

Postby RainMan » Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:55 pm

I have 3 months of work experience at an internship, nothing so great that it would swing admission decisions I don't think. I probably won't retake the LSAT. My friend got a 175 on the LSAT and thought about retaking it but did not. I probably wouldn't chance getting a lower score, but I guess if you know how to do it you know how to do it. I'm not URM.

Thanks for the posts. :D

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dingbat
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Re: Graduate Student/Splitter New York Schools

Postby dingbat » Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:10 pm

Mr. Somebody wrote:Where do you find this info? Just curious

http://www.lsac.org/LSACResources/Data/ ... erData.pdf

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dingbat
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Re: Graduate Student/Splitter New York Schools

Postby dingbat » Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:11 pm

RainMan wrote:I graduated in last may in 2011 with a 2.25 GPA for reasons that I would not be able to fully explain in an addendum (I changed majors and tried to transfer). I currently a Media and Communications graduate student with a 3.5 GPA and will graduate in December. I scored a 170 on the LSAT. I really want to go to law school in New York but I think my GPA will prevent me. I have letters of recommendation from a U Chicago teaching graduate and a New York judge ( I am pursuing a third). I also have done volunteer work for a hospice. Any personal statement recommendations? Thank you for any help in advance...

Schools I am looking at:
Touro
Syracuse
New York Law
St. John's (Legacy)
Hofstra

8)

The 2.25 GPA is a real bummer, but your LSAT will help a lot.
I suspect wth a 170 you can get into any of the schools you listed, but you should aim for Brooklyn or 'Dozo

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dietcoke0
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Re: Graduate Student/Splitter New York Schools

Postby dietcoke0 » Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:20 pm

I have a 2.6 and a 170, got into WUSTL. If applied EA on WUSTL, I'm betting he'd get in. I got W/L at Dozo and Brooklyn, even with visiting the schools beforehand, WE and semi-strong softs.

With WUSTL, would have a better chance to get into Big law than any of those NY schools, and worse comes to worse, work off debt in the midwest and at least have a comfortable life without crippling debt.

Also could try Minn, Illinois, Indiana, or some other tier 1 splitter friendlys.

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Nova
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Re: Graduate Student/Splitter New York Schools

Postby Nova » Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:57 pm

dietcoke0 wrote:
Also could try Minn, Illinois, Indiana, or some other tier 1 splitter friendlys.


Great advice.

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Tom Joad
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Re: Graduate Student/Splitter New York Schools

Postby Tom Joad » Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:59 pm

You are close to screwed if you want to get in any law school that will allow you to pay off your loans, since you are looking at sticker. If you are serious, you will have to become a disciple of Crumps.

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RainMan
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Re: Graduate Student/Splitter New York Schools

Postby RainMan » Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:33 pm

Tom Joad wrote:You are close to screwed if you want to get in any law school that will allow you to pay off your loans, since you are looking at sticker. If you are serious, you will have to become a disciple of Crumps.


I don't know what a disciple of Crumps is. However, I find it hard to believe that these law schools receive applications every year from thousands of students unable to pay off loans once they graduate.
:shock:

bmore
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Re: Graduate Student/Splitter New York Schools

Postby bmore » Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:41 pm

RainMan wrote:
Tom Joad wrote:You are close to screwed if you want to get in any law school that will allow you to pay off your loans, since you are looking at sticker. If you are serious, you will have to become a disciple of Crumps.


I don't know what a disciple of Crumps is. However, I find it hard to believe that these law schools receive applications every year from thousands of students unable to pay off loans once they graduate.
:shock:


Believe it

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Graduate Student/Splitter New York Schools

Postby Tiago Splitter » Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:46 pm

200K debt equals 15K of after tax income each year just to keep the principal at 200K. Good luck even touching the principal on a 50K salary while living in NYC.

rad lulz
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Re: Graduate Student/Splitter New York Schools

Postby rad lulz » Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:47 pm

RainMan wrote:
Tom Joad wrote:You are close to screwed if you want to get in any law school that will allow you to pay off your loans, since you are looking at sticker. If you are serious, you will have to become a disciple of Crumps.


I don't know what a disciple of Crumps is. However, I find it hard to believe that these law schools receive applications every year from thousands of students unable to pay off loans once they graduate.
:shock:

Grizz wrote:The reality is, only 58% of law grads get full time jobs that require bar passage. Not all these jobs even pay. http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=176606&p=5146995#p5146995. Assuming that 10% of all incoming entrants don't want to practice (99% of people at my school do, incidentally), law school was already a bad decision for at least 1/3 of all grads. They will never work as lawyers. Those that don't get jobs come disproportionally from lower-ranked schools. http://balkin.blogspot.com/2011/09/sobering-numbers-law-graduates-who-do.html. Meanwhile, average law school indebtedness nears $100k. http://amlawdaily.typepad.com/amlawdaily/2011/11/law-school-debt-bubble.html.

There's a lot of emphasis placed on big law firms here because that's the surest way to pay down that big debt. If you miss out on the big law boat, you'll likely start at about $50k. http://www.nalp.org/salarycurve_classof2010#curve2 (keep in mind that a lot of those jobs in the trough, $95k+, are big firms in smaller markets). This is, of course, if you are one of the lucky few that gets a legal job at all.

Meanwhile, law schools are lying to you, telling stories of 90%+ grads employed 9 months after graduation, with the implication that they are all getting jobs as lawyers. They use salary statistics from a small, successful portion of the class with the implication that this small segment represent the whole. http://amlawdaily.typepad.com/amlawdaily/2011/01/harperdeception.html; http://www.lawschooltransparency.com/ (look at the data clearinghouse). Why are they doing this? To get a nice cut of easy federal student loan dollars, as the government is lending to students without regard for their ability to repay. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/17/business/law-school-economics-job-market-weakens-tuition-rises.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&ref=davidsegal.

So no, it's not elitism that makes me warn off people from less regarded schools, but rather simple economic realities of this noble profession. I read this article the other day, and I was struck about the actual nobility in how Lord, Day & Lord ran their practice. http://www.nytimes.com/1994/10/02/nyregion/oldest-law-firm-is-courtly-loyal-and-defunct.html. Those were the good 'ol days. Now, prospective entrants to the profession are lied to and saddled with massive loans from the get-go. Telling someone not to take out $200k of debt for a school like Stetson is pretty sound economic advice. $50k debt? Okay, maybe that's not so bad. If someone wants to go to a school that has bad employment outcomes, go ahead, be my guest, I hope it works out for them. Nowhere did I say that law could not be rewarding. But from many schools, many grads will end up getting a nonlegal job they could have gotten with just their undergrad degree, except they'll be $100k in non-dischargeable student loan debt lighter.

Sincerely,
Grizz



HTH

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RainMan
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Re: Graduate Student/Splitter New York Schools

Postby RainMan » Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:56 pm

I just think that blending getting a job in the legal field once you graduate and paying off student loans are two separate accomplishments. Not everyone pays off their student loans with money they make once they graduate and are working in the legal field. Their are students in higher tier schools than Tuoro, St. Johns, and NY Law that cannot find the job they want and students in lower tier schools who can. Plus, once you graduate from law school you can go into many fields with a J.D. It's a serious and professional degree and should be pursued for anyone who is interested. I don't think student loans should put people in fear, I think not being able to complete the three years successfully should be a higher priority and then cross the debt bridge when it comes. If you need money just short Apple. :lol:

rad lulz
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Re: Graduate Student/Splitter New York Schools

Postby rad lulz » Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:59 pm

A JD is not useful for getting a job outside law. The degree has little bearing on law, let alone any other profession. It actually raises red flag for employers. It makes you look like you washed out.

If you think the amount of debt isn't relevant, you're deluded.

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RainMan
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Re: Graduate Student/Splitter New York Schools

Postby RainMan » Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:02 pm

rad lulz wrote:A JD is not useful for getting a job outside law. The degree has little bearing on law, let alone any other profession. It actually raises red flag for employers. It makes you look like you washed out.

If you think the amount of debt isn't relevant, you're deluded.


I didn't say it was not relevant. I know when you graduate from law school you can legally appraise homes and contract the selling rights. That's called being a real estate agent and using your law degree to save money.

rad lulz
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Re: Graduate Student/Splitter New York Schools

Postby rad lulz » Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:05 pm

RainMan wrote:
rad lulz wrote:A JD is not useful for getting a job outside law. The degree has little bearing on law, let alone any other profession. It actually raises red flag for employers. It makes you look like you washed out.

If you think the amount of debt isn't relevant, you're deluded.


I didn't say it was not relevant. I know when you graduate from law school you can legally appraise homes and contract the selling rights. That's called being a real estate agent and using your law degree to save money.

Law school doesn't teach you how to do that.

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Tom Joad
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Re: Graduate Student/Splitter New York Schools

Postby Tom Joad » Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:08 pm

Why don't you just pay like $5,000 for a year long real-state program.

Oh yeah, I guess that doesn't come with as more preftige.

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RainMan
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Re: Graduate Student/Splitter New York Schools

Postby RainMan » Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:10 pm

rad lulz wrote:
RainMan wrote:
rad lulz wrote:A JD is not useful for getting a job outside law. The degree has little bearing on law, let alone any other profession. It actually raises red flag for employers. It makes you look like you washed out.

If you think the amount of debt isn't relevant, you're deluded.


I didn't say it was not relevant. I know when you graduate from law school you can legally appraise homes and contract the selling rights. That's called being a real estate agent and using your law degree to save money.

Law school doesn't teach you how to do that.


I spoke with a legitimate entertainment agent through a summer program at UCLA. A question asked at the seminar was "would a law degree help an employer at one of the top three agencies in Los Angeles (non-legal employment)?" The response was that "yes, a law degree would put you in the fast lane."




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