Navy Vet finishing lousy at Tufts University; tier 1 chance?

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shehadehr
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Navy Vet finishing lousy at Tufts University; tier 1 chance?

Postby shehadehr » Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:12 pm

Hey guys,

First, thank you everyone for reading my post.

I came to Tufts University after spending 4 years in the Navy. I am currently 29 years old. I am graduating this year with between a 3.07 and 3.09. This is what I see working against me: (1) I don't even have a 3.1, (2) I have 4 "W's" or withdrawals and one of these "W's" was this semester, (3) I have one "D," hence the gpa, and (4) I have an "I" or incomplete in a class I took a while back, a law class actually, Philosophy of Tort Law, that I just cannot seem to find the time to complete, even though the professor seems open to letting me complete it.

So I have so much working against me, and what I think it demonstrates to law schools is that even though I went to a top school, and a school with tough academics, I am still too weak of a law school applicant for any tier 1 school to consider admitting. Is this truth?

My questions: (1) What do I need to score on the lsat in order to get into a tier 1 law school? (2) Should I sit down and finish the midterm and final in this incomplete class and complete it, as I am afraid no good law school will even consider me with an "I"?

Thank you guys!

Btw, I have one more class to take first summer session, it ends on June 27, then I fly back to California to study for the lsat. I will spend 3 months (July, August, September) studying for the october test, also taking a Testmasters class back home too. I just recently decided what I want to do for a career, so I'm hungry now, and I know I could succeed at a top 25, but unfortunately my transcripts look to say otherwise (I hope law schools understand how hard Tufts actually is); I just want to get into a good tier 1 school. I can supply any additional information and/or answer any other questions asked of me. Thanks again guys!

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mattviphky
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Re: Navy Vet finishing lousy at Tufts University; tier 1 chance?

Postby mattviphky » Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:09 am

How high in the T1? A 172+, and your experience should get you Northwestern, Georgetown, and MAYBE Virginia.

http://gulc.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats


While a 165 will get you schools like Wake Forest and Washington and Lee.

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JCFindley
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Re: Navy Vet finishing lousy at Tufts University; tier 1 chance?

Postby JCFindley » Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:06 am

shehadehr wrote:Hey guys,

First, thank you everyone for reading my post.

I came to Tufts University after spending 4 years in the Navy. I am currently 29 years old. I am graduating this year with between a 3.07 and 3.09. This is what I see working against me: (1) I don't even have a 3.1, (2) I have 4 "W's" or withdrawals and one of these "W's" was this semester, (3) I have one "D," hence the gpa, and (4) I have an "I" or incomplete in a class I took a while back, a law class actually, Philosophy of Tort Law, that I just cannot seem to find the time to complete, even though the professor seems open to letting me complete it.

So I have so much working against me, and what I think it demonstrates to law schools is that even though I went to a top school, and a school with tough academics, I am still too weak of a law school applicant for any tier 1 school to consider admitting. Is this truth?

My questions: (1) What do I need to score on the lsat in order to get into a tier 1 law school? (2) Should I sit down and finish the midterm and final in this incomplete class and complete it, as I am afraid no good law school will even consider me with an "I"?

Thank you guys!

Btw, I have one more class to take first summer session, it ends on June 27, then I fly back to California to study for the lsat. I will spend 3 months (July, August, September) studying for the october test, also taking a Testmasters class back home too. I just recently decided what I want to do for a career, so I'm hungry now, and I know I could succeed at a top 25, but unfortunately my transcripts look to say otherwise (I hope law schools understand how hard Tufts actually is); I just want to get into a good tier 1 school. I can supply any additional information and/or answer any other questions asked of me. Thanks again guys!


A high LSAT can overcome all.... (Well most, as some schools have a GPA floor and you likely wouldn't get in with a 180....)

Navy vet is a great soft.

In all seriousness, I have never heard of Tufts. If I have never heard of it then it is likely others haven't either or at least are not aware of its reputation. Now if your major is in a hard science or engineering then that might count for something.....

And if you didn't use your Post 911 GI Bill for UG then there are a LOT of law schools you can attend for free. (between the GI B and the Yellow Ribbon Program even a lot of private schools can be debt free....)

JC

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laxbrah420
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Re: Navy Vet finishing lousy at Tufts University; tier 1 chance?

Postby laxbrah420 » Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:12 am

JCFindley wrote:
In all seriousness, I have never heard of Tufts. If I have never heard of it then it is likely others haven't either or at least are not aware of its reputation. Now if your major is in a hard science or engineering then that might count for something.....

bro, tufts is 3rd to mit and harvard in the boston area. beats out bc, bu easily... real tough school to get in/out of. pretty surprised you haven't heard of it. its reputation is that the kids are nerdy, and probably a bit bitter about not getting into harvard.

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mattviphky
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Re: Navy Vet finishing lousy at Tufts University; tier 1 chance?

Postby mattviphky » Wed Apr 04, 2012 1:04 pm

laxbrah420 wrote:
JCFindley wrote:
In all seriousness, I have never heard of Tufts. If I have never heard of it then it is likely others haven't either or at least are not aware of its reputation. Now if your major is in a hard science or engineering then that might count for something.....

bro, tufts is 3rd to mit and harvard in the boston area. beats out bc, bu easily... real tough school to get in/out of. pretty surprised you haven't heard of it. its reputation is that the kids are nerdy, and probably a bit bitter about not getting into harvard.


Well not everyone is from that area. I live in the midwest, and I HAVE heard of Tufts, but I had no idea where it was or what sort of rep it had. It seems like all but the really niche (BYU, ND), elite (Most Ivy, some Cali schools, a few more), and football-centric (big state schools) are kinda marginal. Purdue is considered a big deal where I live, but I'm sure no one gives a shit about it in Boston.

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rinkrat19
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Re: Navy Vet finishing lousy at Tufts University; tier 1 chance?

Postby rinkrat19 » Wed Apr 04, 2012 1:10 pm

I'd heard of Tufts but had some vague idea it was in the south somewhere, with Emory and Rice and Baylor.

Your GPA is only locking you out of the very tip-top schools. A good enough LSAT could get you into some very good schools, not just a tier 1.

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danielhay11
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Re: Navy Vet finishing lousy at Tufts University; tier 1 chance?

Postby danielhay11 » Wed Apr 04, 2012 1:18 pm

If you don't complete the class that is currently incomplete, will it count as a 0.0 towards your GPA? If so, it's a no-brainer. A D is better than an F, and there's a chance you might even be able to crack 3.1 for your law school applications.

It's hard for schools to quantify the relative difficulty/ease of a school for the reasons you see above. However, your LSAC report will include a quantile distribution of the GPAs at your school. So, if LSAC report says the median GPA at Tufts is just a 2.8 (making that # up), you may look better than a guy with a 3.1 from a school where the median GPA is a 3.5.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Navy Vet finishing lousy at Tufts University; tier 1 chance?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Wed Apr 04, 2012 1:19 pm

Tufts is legit.

OP, is the 3.1 your school GPA before factoring in punitive withdrawals? If so, things could get ugly when LSAC calculates your GPA. Either way, try to break 170 on the LSAT and you'll have solid options.

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twenty
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Re: Navy Vet finishing lousy at Tufts University; tier 1 chance?

Postby twenty » Wed Apr 04, 2012 1:24 pm

The bad news is, no one's going to care that you went to Tufts as opposed to People's College of Underwater Basketweaving. Your 3.07 is going to suck, period. The good news is, you're not completely screwed.

Your softs are comparable/better than:

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/Samara
http://lawschoolnumbers.com/stillwater

So here's the thought -- get your LSAT up to 171 at least. There are applicants that get into great schools, but to make up for the bad GPA, they need killer LSAT scores. It is [i]fully]/i] possible to learn the LSAT, and the general TLS consensus is anyone and their pet monkey can, with enough hard work, get a 170.

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bernaldiaz
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Re: Navy Vet finishing lousy at Tufts University; tier 1 chance?

Postby bernaldiaz » Wed Apr 04, 2012 1:32 pm

laxbrah420 wrote:
JCFindley wrote:
In all seriousness, I have never heard of Tufts. If I have never heard of it then it is likely others haven't either or at least are not aware of its reputation. Now if your major is in a hard science or engineering then that might count for something.....

bro, tufts is 3rd to mit and harvard in the boston area. beats out bc, bu easily... real tough school to get in/out of. pretty surprised you haven't heard of it. its reputation is that the kids are nerdy, and probably a bit bitter about not getting into harvard.


Well that's just not true. Tufts and BC are as close to peer schools as you can get, and BC alumns own the Boston area. So for the Boston area, BC is probably superior. On a national level, I'd say they are peers. (Live in Boston, parents went to Tufts, but so so many acquaintances went to BC). Also, BU isn't even in the discussion for undergrad. Unlike law school, BU/BC are not even close to peers for undergrad.

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laxbrah420
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Re: Navy Vet finishing lousy at Tufts University; tier 1 chance?

Postby laxbrah420 » Wed Apr 04, 2012 1:49 pm

Tufts is significantly more difficult to get into than BC. BC is popular with kids whose parents went there and jesuits. It was a garbage commuter school not long ago.
BC: 24% accept->enroll
Tufts: 37%

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rinkrat19
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Re: Navy Vet finishing lousy at Tufts University; tier 1 chance?

Postby rinkrat19 » Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:18 pm

flem wrote:
laxbrah420 wrote:Tufts is significantly more difficult to get into than BC. BC is popular with kids whose parents went there and jesuits. It was a garbage commuter school not long ago.
BC: 24% accept->enroll
Tufts: 37%


Are you saying that 24% of accepted BC students enroll? Or that is their acceptance rate overall?

I guess I'm confused as to what your point is.
Also, who cares?

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laxbrah420
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Re: Navy Vet finishing lousy at Tufts University; tier 1 chance?

Postby laxbrah420 » Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:19 pm

yes, that's their yield. lower yield generally signals worse school.

i don't really care --im really bored at work and some guy told me that BC was a peer school. I think it's not.

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bernaldiaz
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Re: Navy Vet finishing lousy at Tufts University; tier 1 chance?

Postby bernaldiaz » Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:19 pm

laxbrah420 wrote:Tufts is significantly more difficult to get into than BC. BC is popular with kids whose parents went there and jesuits. It was a garbage commuter school not long ago.
BC: 24% accept->enroll
Tufts: 37%


Yeah, I know that (and it pisses me off because BC alumns pretend that they went to a good school). BC was absolutely shit even just 25 years ago, but has had a meteoric rise. I hate BC more than anyone else (have to listen to all the stupid alumns in Boston and also as an ND student have to listen to the BC idiots who think they are on equal footing), but I'm just saying, objectively, they are damn close to peer schools, and in Boston, BC definitely has a leg up.

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bernaldiaz
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Re: Navy Vet finishing lousy at Tufts University; tier 1 chance?

Postby bernaldiaz » Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:21 pm

laxbrah420 wrote:yes, that's their yield. lower yield generally signals worse school.

i don't really care --im really bored at work and some guy told me that BC was a peer school. I think it's not.


Haha I am 100% not trying to white knight BC. I turned it down for UG without any thought (although I turned down Tufts too), but I'm just saying as someone who is familiar with both schools they are really about equals.

humbugger
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Re: Navy Vet finishing lousy at Tufts University; tier 1 chance?

Postby humbugger » Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:33 pm

To address OP's question:

I think it's going to be tough. I applied (albeit a little late), with a 3.9+ (~98th percentile at my school per LSAC) and 161. I had excellent academic references (knew both for >5 years, one was my PhD supervisor who really liked me). Also Navy vet and ofc PhD. I was accepted schools ranked around 30 (or lower) and WL'd or dinged higher-ranking places.

I think the short answer is, take the LSAT, look at the 75% number for LSAT, and those are the places you have a chance at. Maybe not even a particularly good chance, depending on your resume/PS. The rankings mean that your numbers have to help them in some way, or you won't be accepted. (Assuming you're not a URM.)

CanadianWolf
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Re: Navy Vet finishing lousy at Tufts University; tier 1 chance?

Postby CanadianWolf » Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:09 pm

Your LSDAS/LSAC GPA may be well below 3.0 after the four "Ws" & one "I" are factored in. Humbugger's post above offers the best guidance, in my opinion, regarding your target LSAT score.

Why do you want to attend law school ?

I am familiar with Tufts University, but its academic demands are not going to excuse your poor academic performance unless involved in an unusually demanding major course of study. The workload in law school probably will be more substantial than that at Tufts, and certainly will involve more reading. In my opinion, regardless of your LSAT score, you should consider applying to part-time JD programs while devoting full-time to your legal studies.

P.S. If there is grade deflation at Tufts University, it is probably an effort to prevent students from transferring to Ivy League undergraduate schools. Nonetheless, anything below a 3.2 will draw extra scrutiny from Top 50 law schools. In addition to part-time law programs, Wake Forest University's law school should be considered.

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johansantana21
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Re: Navy Vet finishing lousy at Tufts University; tier 1 chance?

Postby johansantana21 » Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:26 pm

Tufts isn't a top school.

Get a 170+ on the LSAT and ED to UVA or NU.




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