I'm an Australian Student- Where do I apply in the US?

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billiris321
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I'm an Australian Student- Where do I apply in the US?

Postby billiris321 » Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:16 pm

Hey! I am new to this forum and after an extensive and thorough search, I have not found a post that specifically addresses my concerns and questions.

I am a 20 year old, 3rd (and final) year undergraduate student at the University of Technology in Sydney (Ranked in the top 5% of Business Schools worldwide & AACSB Accredited). I am studying a Bachelor of Business (Majoring in International Business and Business Law). I was offered a place at 2 leading undergraduate Law Programs here in Sydney, Australia but I rejected them in favour of completing my current degree and applying to law school in the United States. Nevertheless, if my United States plan does not work out, I will be completing a Juris Doctor (Postgraduate Law) at the University of Sydney Law School.

Despite my high achievements in High School, my first two years at university were average. Although I am not one to make excuses, issues within my family (Father was diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis) were a major distraction for me. Nevertheless, I have renewed my focus and I am determined to succeed in my final year. Consequently, my Cumulative GPA improved last semester.

My Numbers

GPA 3.00 (Still have 4 subjects to complete but confident in improving or at least maintaining this figure)
LSAT- 168
Show an upward trend?

Employment

I have volunteered for World Vision and Amnesty International. I also spent 5 years as a volunteer Rugby Referee in my local district.

I worked alongside my brother (Event Manager) to organise and promote an event which raised $30 000 for MS (National Radio and Print media). I am also involved in another one for Cancer in April which will be supported by high profile athletes and media identities.

I have held positions at the Electoral Office during State and Federal elections. I previously worked at a department Store (In High School) and I'm currently employed part-time at a restaurant (Waiter).

I am fluent in Greek.

I am considering Pro-Bono work in a legal office during my midyear semester break.

What are my chances of being accepted into a top 30 school? What could I do to improve my chances? Is there any chance of being offered a scholarship? What schools should I apply to? I have a particular interest in Sports Law and Intellectual Property Law.

Will my Australian roots improve or hinder my chances of being accepted?

Any help would be greatly appreciated :)

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Tadatsune
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Re: I'm an Australian Student- Where do I apply in the US?

Postby Tadatsune » Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:16 am

What could I do to improve my chances?


1) Improve your GPA.
2) Improve your LSAT score.

General advice will be to retake the LSAT and try to break 170. Foreign applicant performance is hard to predict. Your GPA will be converted to an alternative system. It's hard to tell how it will be evaluated.

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billiris321
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Re: I'm an Australian Student- Where do I apply in the US?

Postby billiris321 » Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:59 am

Tadatsune wrote:
What could I do to improve my chances?


1) Improve your GPA.
2) Improve your LSAT score.

General advice will be to retake the LSAT and try to break 170. Foreign applicant performance is hard to predict. Your GPA will be converted to an alternative system. It's hard to tell how it will be evaluated.


Thanks for replying. Its highly unlikely that my GPA will improve a substantial amount. I would say that a 3.2 will be my final undergraduate score (American Grading System). Are there schools that are somewhat "softer" on international students? Many school's seem to look for applicants that would enhance diversity and promote a multicultural feel.

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Tadatsune
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Re: I'm an Australian Student- Where do I apply in the US?

Postby Tadatsune » Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:29 am

billiris321 wrote:
Tadatsune wrote:
What could I do to improve my chances?


1) Improve your GPA.
2) Improve your LSAT score.

General advice will be to retake the LSAT and try to break 170. Foreign applicant performance is hard to predict. Your GPA will be converted to an alternative system. It's hard to tell how it will be evaluated.


Thanks for replying. Its highly unlikely that my GPA will improve a substantial amount. I would say that a 3.2 will be my final undergraduate score (American Grading System). Are there schools that are somewhat "softer" on international students? Many school's seem to look for applicants that would enhance diversity and promote a multicultural feel.


I hear Columbia takes a lot of international students. Whether that makes it "softer", I couldn't tell you. (Might be out of reach with a 3.2 equivalent, though.)

At least, with an "American Grading System" gpa, you can go to http://www.lawschoolnumbers.com / US News & World Report and check out the LSAT and GPA ranges of different schools. That might give you an idea of where you might end up, though only a vague one because you will be evaluated differently than someone with a North American BA.

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Doorkeeper
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Re: I'm an Australian Student- Where do I apply in the US?

Postby Doorkeeper » Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:37 am

Tadatsune wrote:
What could I do to improve my chances?


1) Improve your GPA.
2) Improve your LSAT score.


This is what matters.

If you can retake the LSAT and get above a 170, you have a shot at some T14 schools in the US (Northwestern, Georgetown, Cornell, etc).

CanadianWolf
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Re: I'm an Australian Student- Where do I apply in the US?

Postby CanadianWolf » Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:39 am

Fluency in Greek may yield some offers from bankruptcy firms. :cry:

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AntipodeanPhil
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Re: I'm an Australian Student- Where do I apply in the US?

Postby AntipodeanPhil » Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:25 pm

If your undergraduate degree is not from a North American university, you aren't assigned a GPA by LSAC. Instead, your transcript will be given one of four evaluations: "superior," "above average," "average," or "below average." Given what you say about your GPA, it seems likely your transcript would be "average," with some small chance of "above average."

For international students, your LSAT score matters much more than anything else. With a 168 and an "average" rating, you would stand some chance of getting into one or two of the lower "top 14" schools. With a better LSAT score (170+), you would have a very good of getting into schools ranked from 7-14. For complicated reasons, some of those schools seem willing to overlook a weakish international transcript for a great LSAT score. You would also stand a decent chance of getting scholarship money.

Not much else matters beyond improving your LSAT score and - to a lesser exent - improving your undergraduate transcript.

The more serious problem for international students is finding a way to pay for law school - since you won't be eligible for US government loans, as Americans are. International students almost never get more than a half-tuition scholarship, so, in a best-case scenario, you would have to find at least $20,000 a year for tuition and $15,000 a year for living costs, and in a worst-case scenario you would have to find over $50,000 a year for tuition.

For more information, and to see how other Australians have fared when applying to US law schools, you might find the following thread helpful:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=162609

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FlanAl
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Re: I'm an Australian Student- Where do I apply in the US?

Postby FlanAl » Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:36 pm

go for a higher lsat and apply early. my "above average" and 170 lsat only got me schools in the 13-20 range, but I also applied pretty late in the cycle. there's also a lot to be said for just doing a conversion degree in your home country too...

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billiris321
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Re: I'm an Australian Student- Where do I apply in the US?

Postby billiris321 » Wed Mar 14, 2012 6:25 am

Thank you all. You have been very helpful :)

t14fanboy
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Re: I'm an Australian Student- Where do I apply in the US?

Postby t14fanboy » Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:04 pm

Retake.

senhorquick
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Re: I'm an Australian Student- Where do I apply in the US?

Postby senhorquick » Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:54 am

My honest opinion is nowhere. The United States will only continue to decline in economic importance and political stability for the next few decades.The standard of living will undoubtedly have to decrease for the sake of sustainability and even if you get a job that pays very well, the hours will be long, your coworkers will be fucks, and you will become disillusioned with the few material gains you make in the short run. I would recommend staying in Australia and going to Melbourne or Sydney or another top law school and take Australia's higher average standard of living and more relaxed culture than coming here any day. Yes, you have the potential to make a lot of money in the U.S., but do you really want to live in New York and work 80 hour weeks only to look forward to riding around in your yacht and doing Grade-A+ Colombian blow out of some expensive callgirl's culo on Saturdays?

In short, stay in Sydney and be happy for God's sake!

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billiris321
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Re: I'm an Australian Student- Where do I apply in the US?

Postby billiris321 » Sun Mar 18, 2012 10:27 pm

senhorquick wrote: Yes, you have the potential to make a lot of money in the U.S., but do you really want to live in New York and work 80 hour weeks only to look forward to riding around in your yacht and doing Grade-A+ Colombian blow out of some expensive callgirl's culo on Saturdays?

In short, stay in Sydney and be happy for God's sake!


Yes! Thats exactly what I want. I get the impression that you did not get accepted into an American Law School? Or perhaps you're just a disgruntled American sociopath who is attempting to increase his chances of being accepted by eliminating the threat of such an excellent application?

Either way I appreciate your feedback, even it was somewhat negative. I would argue that the quality of life in many American cities is just as good as what I have experienced in Australia.

keyon
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Re: I'm an Australian Student- Where do I apply in the US?

Postby keyon » Mon Mar 19, 2012 3:57 am

DELICIOUS SPAM

senhorquick
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Re: I'm an Australian Student- Where do I apply in the US?

Postby senhorquick » Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:39 pm

billiris321 wrote:
senhorquick wrote: Yes, you have the potential to make a lot of money in the U.S., but do you really want to live in New York and work 80 hour weeks only to look forward to riding around in your yacht and doing Grade-A+ Colombian blow out of some expensive callgirl's culo on Saturdays?

In short, stay in Sydney and be happy for God's sake!


Yes! Thats exactly what I want. I get the impression that you did not get accepted into an American Law School? Or perhaps you're just a disgruntled American sociopath who is attempting to increase his chances of being accepted by eliminating the threat of such an excellent application?

Either way I appreciate your feedback, even it was somewhat negative. I would argue that the quality of life in many American cities is just as good as what I have experienced in Australia.


*Sigh* Personal attacks on the internet... what is this world coming to. Had you the good sense to read my profile you'd see I have yet to apply. And, when I do apply, the likelihood of my being accepted to a T-14 or even a T-6 is pretty good. So, no you are not my "competition." But, had I the opportunity to let you go to one of these institutions in my stead and take your Australian citizenship and a chance to live in a country that does not reward selfishness and cruelty the way that the American legal system does, I would in a heart beat. That being said, I was not offering you "sociopathic" or "negative" counsel, just an honest opinion from someone whose parents and grandparents and uncles and aunts and friends are all attorneys, many of whom have the "Biglaw" lifestyle which you allegedly desire so much and are vapid, dull, shallow (wo)menchildren who have drug addictions and severe emotional problems. Personally, (i.e. MY OPINION) the prospect of living in a country with less economic inequality, a cleaner environment, more tolerance to other ethnicities and GLBT people, less of an obsession with consumption and wealth, and less of an expectation within the legal community to manipulate and use the marginalized citizens that have already been shafted by so many of the powerful is very appealing.


I am trying to tell you that the lavish lifestyle that many of these "top" lawyers live is unappealing IMO. If you insist on pursuing it, raise GPA if possible, retake and aim for a 172+, and maybe I will see you in law school.

;)

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spleenworship
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Re: I'm an Australian Student- Where do I apply in the US?

Postby spleenworship » Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:13 pm

1) Up LSAT above 170. Powerscore is good, recommend their bibles.
2) See if you can do an extra semester without graduating, taking the easiest courses you can find to raise your GPA.
3) Find $75,000 USD. Minimum. Unless your government will somehow cover it.
4) apply to law schools in US
5) negotiate for scholarships
6) 3 years of hell


Alternatively:

Go to Sydney for your JD.
Go to one year LLM program in NYC, take bar, and see if you can get biglaw job.

Another Alternative: Monash may have a dual degree program with American University, so you could do both at once. American's job prospects aren't great though, but, it's an idea.

Also, you aren't nearly as good a candidate as you seem to think you are. 168 is barely enough for the lower T14 with your GPA. All American law schools care primarily about GPA and LSAT. Only after you have met their requirements do they care about things like the fact that you are an interesting person.

NoJob
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Re: I'm an Australian Student- Where do I apply in the US?

Postby NoJob » Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:54 am

billiris321 wrote:Hey! I am new to this forum and after an extensive and thorough search, I have not found a post that specifically addresses my concerns and questions.

I am a 20 year old, 3rd (and final) year undergraduate student at the University of Technology in Sydney (Ranked in the top 5% of Business Schools worldwide & AACSB Accredited). I am studying a Bachelor of Business (Majoring in International Business and Business Law). I was offered a place at 2 leading undergraduate Law Programs here in Sydney, Australia but I rejected them in favour of completing my current degree and applying to law school in the United States. Nevertheless, if my United States plan does not work out, I will be completing a Juris Doctor (Postgraduate Law) at the University of Sydney Law School.

Despite my high achievements in High School, my first two years at university were average. Although I am not one to make excuses, issues within my family (Father was diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis) were a major distraction for me. Nevertheless, I have renewed my focus and I am determined to succeed in my final year. Consequently, my Cumulative GPA improved last semester.

My Numbers

GPA 3.00 (Still have 4 subjects to complete but confident in improving or at least maintaining this figure)
LSAT- 168
Show an upward trend?

Employment

I have volunteered for World Vision and Amnesty International. I also spent 5 years as a volunteer Rugby Referee in my local district.

I worked alongside my brother (Event Manager) to organise and promote an event which raised $30 000 for MS (National Radio and Print media). I am also involved in another one for Cancer in April which will be supported by high profile athletes and media identities.

I have held positions at the Electoral Office during State and Federal elections. I previously worked at a department Store (In High School) and I'm currently employed part-time at a restaurant (Waiter).

I am fluent in Greek.

I am considering Pro-Bono work in a legal office during my midyear semester break.

What are my chances of being accepted into a top 30 school? What could I do to improve my chances? Is there any chance of being offered a scholarship? What schools should I apply to? I have a particular interest in Sports Law and Intellectual Property Law.

Will my Australian roots improve or hinder my chances of being accepted?

Any help would be greatly appreciated :)


How about law school in Australia?




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