3.80/166, interesting case...

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washingtondclaw
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3.80/166, interesting case...

Postby washingtondclaw » Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:47 pm

Top 25 undergrad. LSAC GPA around 3.9. Very distinguished undergrad -- phi beta kappa, a couple of university wide awards, leader of campus organizations, very prestigious and competitive law related internship after jr. year (one of three undergrads selected in U.S.), selected as university wide representative to prestigious inter-collegiate fellowship program. Great recommendations. Will have two years work experience in a law related job at time of application.

PLAN FOR ADDENDUM: I saw that TLS website says that one of the best reasons to write an LSAT addendum is if you believe LSAT score is not indicative of academic performance. I am and have always been a bad standardized tester (as compared to my academic performance). My SAT score was about the same percentile as my LSAT (about 92). My university predicted that my GPA would be about a 3.0 based on my SAT score (this info is backed by my dean, still thinking whether or not to have him write a rec. to this effect). Basically I want to make the case that standardized testing has not in the past been an accurate indicator of my academic performance, and if that precedent holds, my academic performance in law school will better that what my LSAT score would otherwise indicate. The conclusion will be to ask admissions committee, to any extent possible, to look past the LSAT score to my GPA and other accomplishments when considering my application. Thoughts on this plan are also welcome.

Looking at CCN.... maybe ED Columbia.

Thanks in advance for the help!

bdubs
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Re: 3.80/166, interesting case...

Postby bdubs » Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:53 pm

Retake

washingtondclaw
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Re: 3.80/166, interesting case...

Postby washingtondclaw » Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:56 pm

Also, can't retake. Will be unavailable for work related reasons all of June and have best friend's wedding weekend of Oct. LSAT.

bdubs
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Re: 3.80/166, interesting case...

Postby bdubs » Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:58 pm

No shot at CCN unless you're a URM. The addendum won't matter. You really need to retake in December and hope for the best.

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patrickd139
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Re: 3.80/166, interesting case...

Postby patrickd139 » Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:59 pm

washingtondclaw wrote:Also, can't retake. Will be unavailable for work related reasons all of June and have best friend's wedding weekend of Oct. LSAT.

You could always sit out a cycle, continue to build work experience, retake, and go to a better school...the top law schools will be there a few years from now.

Also, lol at an LSAT addendum for a 166. You're joking, right...?

metblvette
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Re: 3.80/166, interesting case...

Postby metblvette » Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:04 pm

166 is just too low for those schools. Doesn't matter what your addendum says. Your softs, while decent, aren't spectacular. The admissions process is primarily a numbers game, and the school has an interest in getting the highest scoring candidates. Simple as that.

You'll get into other decent schools, just not any of that caliber.

iowalum
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Re: 3.80/166, interesting case...

Postby iowalum » Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:15 pm

The above is the right answer. Your softs are alright but remember that you're going up against the best and I guarantee lots of people have you beat in that department.

Why waste the great GPA? Do whatever you can to retake this year, or if its not possible retake in December. Otherwise you will be resigned to a t-30 with a possibility of a decent scholarship. Very unlikely anything spectacular.

bchereicome
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Re: 3.80/166, interesting case...

Postby bchereicome » Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:43 pm

While it's a thoughtful plan, it's unoriginal I'm sure. You have to consider that many many students outperformed their SATs, and many many students feel as though they should outperform their LSAT in law school. While a few students might be correct about this, an admissions committee has likely received countless letters from students attempting to persuade them that they would be perfect for their law school despite their lower LSAT.

washingtondclaw
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Re: 3.80/166, interesting case...

Postby washingtondclaw » Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:00 pm

Thanks all, this helps. I actually applied two cycles ago (numbers fudged a bit but not enough to make a difference - and softs may be more impressive than I made them seem by being vague) and was WL CC, in at MP. Decided to take time off for personal and $$ reasons. Also - I didn't include this because I don't really think that it makes much of a difference - but I traveled internationally in HS as a professional singer, and spent my first 2 years in undergrad as a vocal performance major before switching to a law related major... maybe compelling, but I don't count on that. Last time around I didn't have PBK, several end of year university wide awards that came around graduation, and work exp. I'm hoping that new stuff will be enough for CC, considering the WL last time.

bchereicome
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Re: 3.80/166, interesting case...

Postby bchereicome » Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:09 pm

If you get into those schools with those numbers, then let us know. Good luck!

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180asBreath
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Re: 3.80/166, interesting case...

Postby 180asBreath » Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:29 pm

There is a chance you can get CCN with your numbers, but it's such a small chance that you're sabotaging yourself by not retaking.

Also, a "bad" standardized tester does not score >90th percentile on a test like the LSAT. The whole "a student who scored in the 92nd percentile on SAT should have a ~3.0 GPA" thing is rubbish, imo.

Sometimes you just have to face reality: if you want to get into a T6 school, you need to have a score that would earn you admission into a T6 school; there are no excuses or shortcuts, you just have to do what it takes. If you're happy with a very slight chance, then proceed as you've been doing. If you truly want T6, stop explaining why you can't retake and find a way to do so.

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patrickd139
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Re: 3.80/166, interesting case...

Postby patrickd139 » Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:46 pm

180asBreath wrote:There is a chance you can get CCN with your numbers, but it's such a small chance that you're sabotaging yourself by not retaking.

Also, a "bad" standardized tester does not score >90th percentile on a test like the LSAT. The whole "a student who scored in the 92nd percentile on SAT should have a ~3.0 GPA" thing is rubbish, imo.

Sometimes you just have to face reality: if you want to get into a T6 school, you need to have a score that would earn you admission into a T6 school; there are no excuses or shortcuts, you just have to do what it takes. If you're happy with a very slight chance, then proceed as you've been doing. If you truly want T6, stop explaining why you can't retake and find a way to do so.

Despite your avatar, I agree completely with the "you're not a special snowflake" tone of this post.

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Mr. Pancakes
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Re: 3.80/166, interesting case...

Postby Mr. Pancakes » Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:56 pm

180asBreath wrote:There is a chance you can get CCN with your numbers, but it's such a small chance that you're sabotaging yourself by not retaking.

Also, a "bad" standardized tester does not score >90th percentile on a test like the LSAT. The whole "a student who scored in the 92nd percentile on SAT should have a ~3.0 GPA" thing is rubbish, imo.

Sometimes you just have to face reality: if you want to get into a T6 school, you need to have a score that would earn you admission into a T6 school; there are no excuses or shortcuts, you just have to do what it takes. If you're happy with a very slight chance, then proceed as you've been doing. If you truly want T6, stop explaining why you can't retake and find a way to do so.

=truth

bdubs
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Re: 3.80/166, interesting case...

Postby bdubs » Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:05 am

washingtondclaw wrote:Thanks all, this helps. I actually applied two cycles ago (numbers fudged a bit but not enough to make a difference - and softs may be more impressive than I made them seem by being vague) and was WL CC, in at MP. Decided to take time off for personal and $$ reasons. Also - I didn't include this because I don't really think that it makes much of a difference - but I traveled internationally in HS as a professional singer, and spent my first 2 years in undergrad as a vocal performance major before switching to a law related major... maybe compelling, but I don't count on that. Last time around I didn't have PBK, several end of year university wide awards that came around graduation, and work exp. I'm hoping that new stuff will be enough for CC, considering the WL last time.


Waitlists really don't mean anything, they are a soft reject for 98% of people who don't ever stand a chance of getting off the waitlist. Keep in mind that median LSATs have pretty consistently gone up or stayed the same in that range of the T14 though, so your chances probably aren't getting much better. Getting into Penn with a 166/3.9X is impressive though, you probably should have taken it.

washingtondclaw
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Re: 3.80/166, interesting case...

Postby washingtondclaw » Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:38 am

Thanks again all, I really appreciate your help. Good luck to all of you!

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twenty
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Re: 3.80/166, interesting case...

Postby twenty » Fri Mar 09, 2012 1:01 am

180asBreath wrote:There is a chance you can get CCN with your numbers, but it's such a small chance that you're sabotaging yourself by not retaking.

Also, a "bad" standardized tester does not score >90th percentile on a test like the LSAT. The whole "a student who scored in the 92nd percentile on SAT should have a ~3.0 GPA" thing is rubbish, imo.

Sometimes you just have to face reality: if you want to get into a T6 school, you need to have a score that would earn you admission into a T6 school; there are no excuses or shortcuts, you just have to do what it takes. If you're happy with a very slight chance, then proceed as you've been doing. If you truly want T6, stop explaining why you can't retake and find a way to do so.


I knew I liked you.




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