3.45 GPA/174 LSAT but with Oxbridge law degree

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DukeofCambridge
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3.45 GPA/174 LSAT but with Oxbridge law degree

Postby DukeofCambridge » Mon Mar 05, 2012 10:11 pm

Hello folks,

My undergrad was at a top 10 US school, after that I worked at a very well known/prestigious US government institution, then did consulting and then got into Oxbridge for law.

At Oxbridge(deliberately being vague because the community here is tiny), I am on track to get a first class law degree (top 10%, less than 40 people in the UK get this each year total) and have a bunch of other cool softs including a great entrepreneurial experience/startup, top student leadership, academically published author in law(primary journal, and a chapter of a book).

However, I know that at the end of the day, it all may come down to my undergrad GPA. Currently, I'm looking at the following schools.

Harvard(bonus, they grant advanced standing meaning I get the JD in two years, just like Sen. Feingold)
Yale(miracle)
Stanford(weather + close to home)
Columbia(advanced standing)
Upenn(advanced standing)
and Northwestern.

What do people think? Are there other schools I should be applying to? Also, some schools allow you to take the LLM and then transfer into their JD program(though I'd prefer not to do this because it would take 3 years.

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2014
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Re: 3.45 GPA/174 LSAT but with Oxbridge law degree

Postby 2014 » Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:44 pm

Are you getting a JD or an LLM. If it's an LLM the admission standards are different and fewer here will know.

If you are applying for a JD then your GPA is your GPA regardless of how well you did in the UK and you are almost surely locked out of the T3 and Columbia who tends to have a soft GPA floor of 3.5.

chenghsiang
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Re: 3.45 GPA/174 LSAT but with Oxbridge law degree

Postby chenghsiang » Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:50 pm

DukeofCambridge wrote:
Harvard(bonus, they grant advanced standing meaning I get the JD in two years, just like Sen. Feingold)
Yale(miracle)
Stanford(weather + close to home)
Columbia(advanced standing)
Upenn(advanced standing)
and Northwestern.


Just curious: where did you check the advanced standing thing? I couldn't find them on their websites.

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banjo
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Re: 3.45 GPA/174 LSAT but with Oxbridge law degree

Postby banjo » Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:39 am

Wait, why are you getting a JD? A first class at Oxbridge will get you a training contract at a prestigious firm in the UK (I think they're called Magic Circle firms?). You could transfer to a US office from an elite UK firm, or, alternatively, you can just take the bar in New York state with your LLB and start applying for jobs right away. I don't think a JD is worth it for you.

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DukeofCambridge
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Re: 3.45 GPA/174 LSAT but with Oxbridge law degree

Postby DukeofCambridge » Tue Mar 06, 2012 6:24 am

Umm, because it would require a 1 year course + 2 year training contract before qualification, at which point, you'd still be considered an english lawyer.

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DukeofCambridge
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Re: 3.45 GPA/174 LSAT but with Oxbridge law degree

Postby DukeofCambridge » Tue Mar 06, 2012 6:25 am

chenghsiang wrote:
DukeofCambridge wrote:
Harvard(bonus, they grant advanced standing meaning I get the JD in two years, just like Sen. Feingold)
Yale(miracle)
Stanford(weather + close to home)
Columbia(advanced standing)
Upenn(advanced standing)
and Northwestern.


Just curious: where did you check the advanced standing thing? I couldn't find them on their websites.



for some, I got it from their website, for others, I literally called them up. BTW, I find it hilarious that Columbia STILL hasn't updated their website after I spoke with them nearly a year ago ...

chenghsiang
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Re: 3.45 GPA/174 LSAT but with Oxbridge law degree

Postby chenghsiang » Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:52 am

DukeofCambridge wrote:Umm, because it would require a 1 year course + 2 year training contract before qualification, at which point, you'd still be considered an english lawyer.


What's wrong with being an English lawyer? And wait, you're spending 9-10 years in total (4 years US undergraduate, 3 years UK LLB, and 2-3 years US JD) just to practice law? That's lots of opportunity cost there...

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Doorkeeper
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Re: 3.45 GPA/174 LSAT but with Oxbridge law degree

Postby Doorkeeper » Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:57 am

You're such an unknown here because of your low GPA, but with publications and prestigious Oxbridge law degree, that I'm not sure I can really quantify it. I would think that you're in at NYU or Penn if you wanted to go there. Like others have said, Columbia has a soft GPA floor of 3.5, but your work in the UK might warrant them to dip below it, especially if you ED there. In regards to HYS, it's really a toss up. It appears that Yale has waitlisted a few people before with numbers similar to yours, but I don't see any admits. It looks like H and S has taken a 2-3 people over the past few years with similar scores, so you might have a small shot at them.

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DukeofCambridge
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Re: 3.45 GPA/174 LSAT but with Oxbridge law degree

Postby DukeofCambridge » Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:13 am

chenghsiang wrote:
DukeofCambridge wrote:Umm, because it would require a 1 year course + 2 year training contract before qualification, at which point, you'd still be considered an english lawyer.


What's wrong with being an English lawyer? And wait, you're spending 9-10 years in total (4 years US undergraduate, 3 years UK LLB, and 2-3 years US JD) just to practice law? That's lots of opportunity cost there...




not quite ... my Oxbridge degree is going to take 2 years, as will (hopefully) the JD. So, really, an extra year beyond normal. and I have two scholarships here defraying the cost ...

Being an english lawyer is fine, it just means I'd have to work here for a few years and would probably find it easier to go to Hong Kong than the US.

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banjo
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Re: 3.45 GPA/174 LSAT but with Oxbridge law degree

Postby banjo » Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:58 am

DukeofCambridge wrote:
chenghsiang wrote:
DukeofCambridge wrote:Umm, because it would require a 1 year course + 2 year training contract before qualification, at which point, you'd still be considered an english lawyer.


What's wrong with being an English lawyer? And wait, you're spending 9-10 years in total (4 years US undergraduate, 3 years UK LLB, and 2-3 years US JD) just to practice law? That's lots of opportunity cost there...




not quite ... my Oxbridge degree is going to take 2 years, as will (hopefully) the JD. So, really, an extra year beyond normal. and I have two scholarships here defraying the cost ...

Being an english lawyer is fine, it just means I'd have to work here for a few years and would probably find it easier to go to Hong Kong than the US.


I don't know your exact situation, but most people on TLS would kill to be in your position. You have great opportunities with London firms, who will very likely pay your course fees and pay you during the training contract as well (or at least, that's what I'm told). If you have a scholarship for your LLB, you would basically be a lawyer for free. Why gamble a sure thing by paying (and with your UGPA, you will have to pay something) to possibly be worse-off at a T14? I mean, people here are striking out completely at OCI. Good grades are notoriously random. I say apply to YHS only and if none of them bites, work for a few years in UK biglaw.

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DukeofCambridge
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Re: 3.45 GPA/174 LSAT but with Oxbridge law degree

Postby DukeofCambridge » Tue Mar 06, 2012 5:08 pm

That's true, London firms do pay you during your training contract, but not particularly well, with high taxes and cost of living, it's not much. For me, the route to qualification would be:

a. 1 year LPC(unpaid, but with 8,000 GBP stipend)
b. 1st year of training contract, 40,000 GBP(approx $60,000)
c. 2nd year of training contract 44,000 GBP (approx $70,000)
d. 80,000-95,000 GBP upon qualification (approx $160,000)
... then career portability w/ difficulty to US, easier to HK

However, getting a 2 year JD would be
a. School(potential slight difficulty for OCI as I'll be getting evaluated on Oxbridge grades only)
b. School
c. $160,000 + NY bonus
... then career portability within US, and to HK etc.

Also, having a UK llb or only a US llm would prevent me from getting clerkships/gov opportunities(may do reserve JAG). My understanding is the following schools will allow me to do a 2 year JD.

Harvard
Columbia
UChicago
Penn
Duke
Northwestern

Of those, which ones would I have the best shot at? (I would also consider Penn's 3 year JD/MBA)

justicefishy
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Re: 3.45 GPA/174 LSAT but with Oxbridge law degree

Postby justicefishy » Tue Mar 06, 2012 5:18 pm

DukeofCambridge wrote:That's true, London firms do pay you during your training contract, but not particularly well, with high taxes and cost of living, it's not much. For me, the route to qualification would be:

a. 1 year LPC(unpaid, but with 8,000 GBP stipend)
b. 1st year of training contract, 40,000 GBP(approx $60,000)
c. 2nd year of training contract 44,000 GBP (approx $70,000)
d. 80,000-95,000 GBP upon qualification (approx $160,000)
... then career portability w/ difficulty to US, easier to HK

However, getting a 2 year JD would be
a. School(potential slight difficulty for OCI as I'll be getting evaluated on Oxbridge grades only)
b. School
c. $160,000 + NY bonus
... then career portability within US, and to HK etc.

Also, having a UK llb or only a US llm would prevent me from getting clerkships/gov opportunities(may do reserve JAG). My understanding is the following schools will allow me to do a 2 year JD.

Harvard
Columbia
UChicago
Penn
Duke
Northwestern

Of those, which ones would I have the best shot at? (I would also consider Penn's 3 year JD/MBA)


I'm going to pro-Penn troll as I do in these threads, but...Penn. Penn's somewhat splitter friendly and you've got the softs to make it worth their while. I'd say blanket them all but given your considering a JD/MBA...I'd say ED Penn, apply to every other school in the T-14 and see what happens.




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