Please advise: Dream is HYSCCNMVP, but GPA is 3.3 LSAT 173 Forum

[Airknight]

Did a self-designed major in college. Will the adcom look down at me because of a made-up major AND still a meager cGPA?

College is one of the top liberal arts colleges.

Already out of college, so can't raise uGPA anymore. In a grad program abroad now.

Also, my GMAT score is 800. Not sure if that is relevant, but I took it just in case I want to apply for the JD-MBA.

No WE.

If ED, please advise where.

If I do have a (very slim) chance at HYS, please advise how to approach the application.

Thinking about applying 1 year later (2013-2014 cycle) due to desire to finish the grad program first. I can take a further gap year if need be. Willing to take advice on when to apply.

Career goal is to be some sort of international business lawyer. Already know myself not the public law type of guy.

Thank you!

[bk1]

No real shot at HYS. Unlikely at CCN. Good shot at MVP.

http://www.lawschoolnumbers.com

[Airknight]

No real shot at HYS. Unlikely at CCN. Good shot at MVP.

http://www.lawschoolnumbers.com

Is there a way for me to redeem myself? Can I go back to the past and whiplash the lazy freshman and sophomore me to study harder?

Am I excluded from the very top law schools for the rest of my life? No hope? Please give me any strategies...

[bk1]

Your GPA is what is killing you. Your only shot would be to do very well at MVP (e.g. top 10%) and try to transfer to HYS. But there's (a) a 90% chance that's not going to happen and (b) reasons why it wouldn't necessarily be smart to give up being top 10% at MVP to transfer to HYS.

[Airknight]

(b) reasons why it wouldn't necessarily be smart to give up being top 10% at MVP to transfer to HYS.

If I just want a law firm career and not one in the judiciary or academe, does being top 10% at MVP better or having the H-pedigree better?

[justicefishy]

But with your GMAT score (which I wish I had :<) you can do a 3 year JD MBA at Wharton. Trust me, as someone in your boat, Penn looks great and gives you a great shot at big law if you want it.

Edit: As someone that's planning on doing this myself, I can tell you that firms love JD/MBAs.

[johansantana21]

Good shot at MVP if you ED.

I knew someone with your identical numbers who ED'd to NYU. Got Waitlisted.

[Airknight]

But with your GMAT score (which I wish I had :<) you can do a 3 year JD MBA at Wharton.

Really? I thought Wharton prefers MBA applicants to have a lot of WE. If I can at least have a Wharton MBA, I think not having a super-elite JD from HYS won't be so bad. (Another reason I really wanted HYS JD is that those schools don't have "real" letter grades). How should I approach the Wharton application without WE? Advice would be greatly appreciated!

[hdsoc]

Hello almost numbers twin. HYSC is pretty much out. I'm not entirely sure what's going on with Chicago this year, but its a stretch, and I think NYU is only going to happen if you apply early or ride the waitlist and even then, who knows.

After that, those are all good possibilities, but none are guaranteed. You're unlikely to get money anywhere except maybe Michigan, so if there's one you love more than the others, I'd apply early to make it a lock.

I had significant WE, which helped, but here were my results:
Michigan: In, w/ $$
Georgetown: In
UCLA: In
NYU: In ED
Fordham: In w/ $
WASHU: In
Didn't get to hear back from anywhere else, given the ED.

[20130312]

But with your GMAT score (which I wish I had :<) you can do a 3 year JD MBA at Wharton.

Not without W/E. But man, how did you pull an 800??

[justicefishy]

But with your GMAT score (which I wish I had :<) you can do a 3 year JD MBA at Wharton.

Really? I thought Wharton prefers MBA applicants to have a lot of WE. If I can at least have a Wharton MBA, I think not having a super-elite JD from HYS won't be so bad. (Another reason I really wanted HYS JD is that those schools don't have "real" letter grades). How should I approach the Wharton application without WE? Advice would be greatly appreciated!

Take that extra year and get some nice WE is my advice for all B-schools (which you mentioned was an option above). The international grad program is also a good start too. That said, even without an MBA, you've got a good shot for a firm at MVP.

[Airknight]

Not without W/E. But man, how did you pull an 800??

I took lots of math courses in college, so the math section was a given. I did lots of practice for the verbal section. For writing, I wrote out essays for all the prompts (which can be downloaded from the mba.com website). GMAT is way easier than the LSAT. The LSAT is more like an IQ test and max score doesn't grow on trees. Sigh. But at least for the GMAT, I think if you persevere and practice, you're good to go.

[Airknight]

Hello almost numbers twin. HYSC is pretty much out. I'm not entirely sure what's going on with Chicago this year, but its a stretch, and I think NYU is only going to happen if you apply early or ride the waitlist and even then, who knows.

After that, those are all good possibilities, but none are guaranteed. You're unlikely to get money anywhere except maybe Michigan, so if there's one you love more than the others, I'd apply early to make it a lock.

I had significant WE, which helped, but here were my results:
Michigan: In, w/ $$
Georgetown: In
UCLA: In
NYU: In ED
Fordham: In w/ $
WASHU: In
Didn't get to hear back from anywhere else, given the ED.

I missed this post. Congrats! Good to know that you got in NYU with ED. Where among MVP is my best ED bet?

[Airknight]

Take that extra year and get some nice WE is my advice for all B-schools (which you mentioned was an option above). The international grad program is also a good start too. That said, even without an MBA, you've got a good shot for a firm at MVP.

Only on the condition that I am in the top 25% of MVP, right? Getting good grades in law school is like winning a lottery. There is so much risk going to a law school that gives letter grades.

[Mal Reynolds]

The LSAT is more like an IQ test and max score doesn't grow on trees. Sigh. But at least for the GMAT, I think if you persevere and practice, you're good to go.

This is all wrong. You can study to do well on the LSAT just like on the GMAT. You won't be studying in the same way but this is just plain wrong.

[justicefishy]

Take that extra year and get some nice WE is my advice for all B-schools (which you mentioned was an option above). The international grad program is also a good start too. That said, even without an MBA, you've got a good shot for a firm at MVP.

Only on the condition that I am in the top 25% of MVP, right? Getting good grades in law school is like winning a lottery. There is so much risk going to a law school that gives letter grades.

Nope! It's a much higher percentage. According to law school transparency, about 57% of Penn's 2009 graduates are making over $160,000 a year. (Yes, blatant pro-Penn trolling but...)

Also, as you can see below, more recently, the percentages are still quite high for biglaw. (taken from AntipodeanPhil's lovely chart)



Here's the link to the data:
http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... slreturn=1

[Airknight]

The LSAT is more like an IQ test and max score doesn't grow on trees. Sigh. But at least for the GMAT, I think if you persevere and practice, you're good to go.

This is all wrong. You can study to do well on the LSAT just like on the GMAT. You won't be studying in the same way but this is just plain wrong.

My assumptions are that the LSAT tests your aptitude, not your ability. Ability can be learned and perfected but not aptitude. Also, I think a good deal of luck is involved to reach anything higher than 175 on the real test. Trust me, I did lots of practice for the LSAT but I "only" got a 173.

[Mal Reynolds]

The LSAT is more like an IQ test and max score doesn't grow on trees. Sigh. But at least for the GMAT, I think if you persevere and practice, you're good to go.

This is all wrong. You can study to do well on the LSAT just like on the GMAT. You won't be studying in the same way but this is just plain wrong.

My assumptions are that the LSAT tests your aptitude, not your ability. Ability can be learned and perfected but not aptitude. Also, I think a good deal of luck is involved to reach anything higher than 175 on the real test. Trust me, I did lots of practice for the LSAT but I "only" got a 173.

Well then if you did practice tests, then of course the LSAT tests your aptitude. Im sorry, please forgive me.

[ahnhub]

Take that extra year and get some nice WE is my advice for all B-schools (which you mentioned was an option above). The international grad program is also a good start too. That said, even without an MBA, you've got a good shot for a firm at MVP.

Only on the condition that I am in the top 25% of MVP, right? Getting good grades in law school is like winning a lottery. There is so much risk going to a law school that gives letter grades.

Huh? Go look around on the threads talking about 2011 OCI at any of these schools--median gave you an excellent shot at Biglaw. Furthermore, at most elite law schools I don't think letter grades are that much different from H/P systems:

If 10% get A's, 15% get A-, 20% get B+, and everybody else gets B's, what does that end up looking like? A few super-high GPA's, a distinguishable top 15-20%, and a whole mess of people glommed up around median.

[Airknight]

Take that extra year and get some nice WE is my advice for all B-schools (which you mentioned was an option above). The international grad program is also a good start too. That said, even without an MBA, you've got a good shot for a firm at MVP.

Only on the condition that I am in the top 25% of MVP, right? Getting good grades in law school is like winning a lottery. There is so much risk going to a law school that gives letter grades.

Nope! It's a much higher percentage. According to law school transparency, about 57% of Penn's 2009 graduates are making over $160,000 a year. (Yes, blatant pro-Penn trolling but...)

Also, as you can see below, more recently, the percentages are still quite high for biglaw. (taken from AntipodeanPhil's lovely chart)



Here's the link to the data:
http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... slreturn=1

This is a GREAT chart! Thank you sooooo much! I'm now leaning toward applying ED to Penn (JD-MBA possibility, good biglaw placement, and good location).

[Airknight]

The LSAT is more like an IQ test and max score doesn't grow on trees. Sigh. But at least for the GMAT, I think if you persevere and practice, you're good to go.

This is all wrong. You can study to do well on the LSAT just like on the GMAT. You won't be studying in the same way but this is just plain wrong.

My assumptions are that the LSAT tests your aptitude, not your ability. Ability can be learned and perfected but not aptitude. Also, I think a good deal of luck is involved to reach anything higher than 175 on the real test. Trust me, I did lots of practice for the LSAT but I "only" got a 173.

Well then if you did practice tests, then of course the LSAT tests your aptitude. Im sorry, please forgive me.

I'm sure there are outliers who get 180 from, say, 150. But how likely is that? I started out with a 170 on diagnostic test. So I actually didn't improve much.

[20130312]

This is a GREAT chart! Thank you sooooo much! I'm now leaning toward applying ED to Penn (JD-MBA possibility, good biglaw placement, and good location).

As a 3.3/169 (from October, retaking in June) Philly area resident, I'm hoping we will be classmates at Penn next year. Good luck!

[Airknight]

As a 3.3/169 (from October, retaking in June) Philly area resident, I'm hoping we will be classmates at Penn next year. Good luck!

That'd be awesome! Good luck on the retake!

[005618502]

Take that extra year and get some nice WE is my advice for all B-schools (which you mentioned was an option above). The international grad program is also a good start too. That said, even without an MBA, you've got a good shot for a firm at MVP.

Only on the condition that I am in the top 25% of MVP, right? Getting good grades in law school is like winning a lottery. There is so much risk going to a law school that gives letter grades.

Nope! It's a much higher percentage. According to law school transparency, about 57% of Penn's 2009 graduates are making over $160,000 a year. (Yes, blatant pro-Penn trolling but...)

Also, as you can see below, more recently, the percentages are still quite high for biglaw. (taken from AntipodeanPhil's lovely chart)



Here's the link to the data:
http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... slreturn=1

Is this graph accurate? How did Penn actually go up in 2011 while most went down? And I thought Berk was doing worse than Virginia? So confused!

[bk1]

(b) reasons why it wouldn't necessarily be smart to give up being top 10% at MVP to transfer to HYS.

If I just want a law firm career and not one in the judiciary or academe, does being top 10% at MVP better or having the H-pedigree better?

No idea, but if you're in that position already you pretty much just have to avoid drooling on yourself to get a job at a firm.