Extreme splitter -- 3.45/180

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TipTap
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Extreme splitter -- 3.45/180

Postby TipTap » Sat Jan 21, 2012 2:13 pm

Out of undergrad for 1 year.

I have excuses for my GPA (science major at a top 5 notorious for having a harsh grading policy, really awful freshman year which means upward trend) but some of it still comes down to me.

Some WE at a startup. Did a couple years worth of research in undergrad, might have second or third author on a journal article.

I'm looking into getting into IP.

Chances at HLS?

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Extreme splitter -- 3.45/180

Postby Tiago Splitter » Sat Jan 21, 2012 2:23 pm

If white no chance sorry.

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Doorkeeper
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Re: Extreme splitter -- 3.45/180

Postby Doorkeeper » Sat Jan 21, 2012 2:36 pm

Yea, I feel for the OP. Science can be really rough, but apparently for law school it really doesn't matter for most schools. A few schools, mostly the ones that are most holistic, i.e. Yale, Berkeley, etc, take the major into account when looking at the GPA, but 3.45 is very low for most of the Top 6. Looking at LSN, it looks like you have a solid shot at Chicago and Columbia. If you do Top 10% there you can then transfer to HLS if your heart is set on it.

Transferthrowaway
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Re: Extreme splitter -- 3.45/180

Postby Transferthrowaway » Sat Jan 21, 2012 2:39 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:If white no chance sorry.


Or any other race that doesn't qualify for URM status. Sheesh, it's not just white.

TipTap
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Re: Extreme splitter -- 3.45/180

Postby TipTap » Sat Jan 21, 2012 2:43 pm

Yeah I figured. What kind of scholarship am I looking at at BC/BU, and would it be worth taking that over another T14, keeping in mind that I'm probably leaning toward IP?

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Extreme splitter -- 3.45/180

Postby Tiago Splitter » Sat Jan 21, 2012 2:46 pm

TipTap wrote:Yeah I figured. What kind of scholarship am I looking at at BC/BU, and would it be worth taking that over another T14, keeping in mind that I'm probably leaning toward IP?


Splitters with numbers like yours tend to be better off just going to the highest ranked school possible, because you have to go down the rankings quite a ways to get serious money. Your odds at Columbia/NYU are pretty solid. Meanwhile you might only get 50K from BC/BU, not enough for most people to turn down CCN.

If leaving Boston isn't an option still apply broadly to leverage other scholarship offers.

LawSchoolChampion
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Re: Extreme splitter -- 3.45/180

Postby LawSchoolChampion » Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:03 am

Tiago Splitter wrote:
TipTap wrote:Yeah I figured. What kind of scholarship am I looking at at BC/BU, and would it be worth taking that over another T14, keeping in mind that I'm probably leaning toward IP?


Splitters with numbers like yours tend to be better off just going to the highest ranked school possible, because you have to go down the rankings quite a ways to get serious money. Your odds at Columbia/NYU are pretty solid. Meanwhile you might only get 50K from BC/BU, not enough for most people to turn down CCN.

If leaving Boston isn't an option still apply broadly to leverage other scholarship offers.



If you ED BU you may have a shot at their full ride, but I am not sure. I haven't seen solid data on what they look for, but they may want above median for both scores.

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Mr. Somebody
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Re: Extreme splitter -- 3.45/180

Postby Mr. Somebody » Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:00 am

OP, check your inbox, I PMed you.

justicefishy
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Re: Extreme splitter -- 3.45/180

Postby justicefishy » Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:15 pm

TipTap wrote:Out of undergrad for 1 year.

I have excuses for my GPA (science major at a top 5 notorious for having a harsh grading policy, really awful freshman year which means upward trend) but some of it still comes down to me.

Some WE at a startup. Did a couple years worth of research in undergrad, might have second or third author on a journal article.

I'm looking into getting into IP.

Chances at HLS?


With these scores? MVP easily (probably with substantial cash), CCN almost certainly (probably with no cash), HYS is a shot but not certain.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Extreme splitter -- 3.45/180

Postby Tiago Splitter » Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:32 pm

justicefishy wrote:
TipTap wrote:Out of undergrad for 1 year.

I have excuses for my GPA (science major at a top 5 notorious for having a harsh grading policy, really awful freshman year which means upward trend) but some of it still comes down to me.

Some WE at a startup. Did a couple years worth of research in undergrad, might have second or third author on a journal article.

I'm looking into getting into IP.

Chances at HLS?


With these scores? MVP easily (probably with substantial cash), CCN almost certainly (probably with no cash), HYS is a shot but not certain.


Huh? WL at MVP are very likely based on recent history. Very few splitters get into all 3. Chicago is also unlikely as a straight up admit. HYS is definitely out.

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ColtsFan88
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Re: Extreme splitter -- 3.45/180

Postby ColtsFan88 » Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:03 am

Tiago Splitter wrote:
justicefishy wrote:
TipTap wrote:Out of undergrad for 1 year.

I have excuses for my GPA (science major at a top 5 notorious for having a harsh grading policy, really awful freshman year which means upward trend) but some of it still comes down to me.

Some WE at a startup. Did a couple years worth of research in undergrad, might have second or third author on a journal article.

I'm looking into getting into IP.

Chances at HLS?


With these scores? MVP easily (probably with substantial cash), CCN almost certainly (probably with no cash), HYS is a shot but not certain.


Huh? WL at MVP are very likely based on recent history. Very few splitters get into all 3. Chicago is also unlikely as a straight up admit. HYS is definitely out.


True, but a decent amount of splitters get into at least one of MVP. I feel like the OP has a very good shot at MVP with his stats.

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koalatriste
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Re: Extreme splitter -- 3.45/180

Postby koalatriste » Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:36 am

Um, Virginia will literally roll out the red carpet for OP, they take splitters with far lower LSAT and GPA combinations.

I think one of CCN will bite, at the very least.

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IAFG
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Re: Extreme splitter -- 3.45/180

Postby IAFG » Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:40 am

Tiago Splitter wrote:
TipTap wrote:Yeah I figured. What kind of scholarship am I looking at at BC/BU, and would it be worth taking that over another T14, keeping in mind that I'm probably leaning toward IP?


Splitters with numbers like yours tend to be better off just going to the highest ranked school possible, because you have to go down the rankings quite a ways to get serious money. Your odds at Columbia/NYU are pretty solid. Meanwhile you might only get 50K from BC/BU, not enough for most people to turn down CCN.

If leaving Boston isn't an option still apply broadly to leverage other scholarship offers.

IDK what you define as "serious money" or going down the rankings a ways, but I had a 3.48/173 and got a 2/3 ride from GULC and $50k from NU.

OP I would blanket the T20 and try to negotiate for scholarships. I think you're in money at a few of them.

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citykitty
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Re: Extreme splitter -- 3.45/180

Postby citykitty » Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:04 am

koalatriste wrote:Um, Virginia will literally roll out the red carpet for OP, they take splitters with far lower LSAT and GPA combinations.

I think one of CCN will bite, at the very least.



UVA does take splitters with lower combinations, but they also WL splitters with numbers like these. IME, UVA is rather holistic when looking at splitters, because they know they can't take all of them. I imagine M/P are similar in this regard. I would doubt that OP would sweep M/V/P, but has a good chance of getting money at one of them.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Extreme splitter -- 3.45/180

Postby Tiago Splitter » Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:24 am

IAFG wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:
TipTap wrote:Yeah I figured. What kind of scholarship am I looking at at BC/BU, and would it be worth taking that over another T14, keeping in mind that I'm probably leaning toward IP?


Splitters with numbers like yours tend to be better off just going to the highest ranked school possible, because you have to go down the rankings quite a ways to get serious money. Your odds at Columbia/NYU are pretty solid. Meanwhile you might only get 50K from BC/BU, not enough for most people to turn down CCN.

If leaving Boston isn't an option still apply broadly to leverage other scholarship offers.

IDK what you define as "serious money" or going down the rankings a ways, but I had a 3.48/173 and got a 2/3 ride from GULC and $50k from NU.

OP I would blanket the T20 and try to negotiate for scholarships. I think you're in money at a few of them.


1) Your numbers and the OP's are very different in that you didn't get the chance to turn down CCN.

2) One could argue you went to the best school you got in to.

Perhaps a Michigan acceptance coupled with a $67,500 scholly would do the trick, but that's far from a guarantee.

nsbane
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Re: Extreme splitter -- 3.45/180

Postby nsbane » Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:31 am

I don't know, I my GPA & LSAT were lower than yours, and I got into a CCN. Still waiting on the rest. If you had applied at the beginning of the cycle, I'd say you definitely have a shot at HYS. Now that it's end of January, however ...

LSAT testing is down, law school apps are down by like 15% ... give it a shot. Better yet, wait til next year, get a year of work experience, and you will be that much stronger. The longer you are out of undergrad, the less they care about GPA.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Extreme splitter -- 3.45/180

Postby Tiago Splitter » Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:13 am

nsbane wrote:If you had applied at the beginning of the cycle, I'd say you definitely have a shot at HYS. Now that it's end of January, however ...

The longer you are out of undergrad, the less they care about GPA.


We have mountains of data on LSN to suggest this isn't the case.

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Br3v
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Re: Extreme splitter -- 3.45/180

Postby Br3v » Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:30 am

Transferthrowaway wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:If white no chance sorry.


Or any other race that doesn't qualify for URM status. Sheesh, it's not just white.


Under Represented Other Majorities

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IAFG
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Re: Extreme splitter -- 3.45/180

Postby IAFG » Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:45 am

Tiago Splitter wrote:
1) Your numbers and the OP's are very different in that you didn't get the chance to turn down CCN.

2) One could argue you went to the best school you got in to.

Perhaps a Michigan acceptance coupled with a $67,500 scholly would do the trick, but that's far from a guarantee.

I had all my apps held until January for my Dec re-take and people with my numbers were getting into CCN that year, so that's not really accurate that my numbers held me back from CCN, nor is it relevant to a discussion about OP's ability to get money from T14s. Since OP is out at HYS and could either get in or get WL'd at CCN, he should follow my advice and try to grab up that money.

nsbane
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Re: Extreme splitter -- 3.45/180

Postby nsbane » Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:42 am

Tiago Splitter, you seem very certain he doesn't have a chance at HYS. When I put his numbers into lawschoolpredictor.com he's got good chances at all 3. Is there something I'm missing? Is it because it is so late in the cycle?

hicrhodus
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Re: Extreme splitter -- 3.45/180

Postby hicrhodus » Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:03 am

Law school predictor is not the most precise tool and not designed to account for (extreme) splitters. In particular, it doesn't account for the existence of GPA floors of at least 3.7 at HYS and the fact that Stanford doesn't seem more impressed by LSAT scores in the high 170s than those in the low 170s. Beyond a certain point, extra points on the LSAT bring a diminishing reward and they can't always make up for a lower GPA. Regardless of what Law School Predictor says, HYS are likely to look seriously at non-URMs with a 3.8+ and 170-175, while they are unlikely to consider someone with less than a 3.7 and a 175+--unfortunately, the boat I'm in as well. For a more detailed discussion, see : viewtopic.php?f=22&t=162680

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bostonlawchick
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Re: Extreme splitter -- 3.45/180

Postby bostonlawchick » Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:01 am

Tiago Splitter wrote:
TipTap wrote:Yeah I figured. What kind of scholarship am I looking at at BC/BU, and would it be worth taking that over another T14, keeping in mind that I'm probably leaning toward IP?


Splitters with numbers like yours tend to be better off just going to the highest ranked school possible, because you have to go down the rankings quite a ways to get serious money. Your odds at Columbia/NYU are pretty solid. Meanwhile you might only get 50K from BC/BU, not enough for most people to turn down CCN.

If leaving Boston isn't an option still apply broadly to leverage other scholarship offers.


OP should get more than 50k from BC/BU. I was 171/3.3 and I got 66k. I know quite a few people here that got pretty good money to sway them from better schools. I agree if you want to be in Boston and are super debt averse BU ED full ride probably isn't a bad option.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Extreme splitter -- 3.45/180

Postby Tiago Splitter » Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:27 am

IAFG wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:
1) Your numbers and the OP's are very different in that you didn't get the chance to turn down CCN.

2) One could argue you went to the best school you got in to.

Perhaps a Michigan acceptance coupled with a $67,500 scholly would do the trick, but that's far from a guarantee.

I had all my apps held until January for my Dec re-take and people with my numbers were getting into CCN that year, so that's not really accurate that my numbers held me back from CCN, nor is it relevant to a discussion about OP's ability to get money from T14s. Since OP is out at HYS and could either get in or get WL'd at CCN, he should follow my advice and try to grab up that money.


We really don't disagree here. I'm more focused on the rankings drop from T-14 to BC/BU than I am about any differences between NYU and NU. The point is that splitters can't just slide out of the T-14 and expect a full ride, but there will be scholarship offers to consider within the T-14. As you know, debt for most, even with a 50K scholly, will still be massive and require either LRAP or Biglaw to handle. Again, we don't disagree; "the highest ranked school" could change from one year to the next and no one should be a slave to one year's US News (or even Biglaw) rankings.

And if you could ask NU to kick me a scholly like yours that'd be great.

bostonlawchick wrote:OP should get more than 50k from BC/BU. I was 171/3.3 and I got 66k. I know quite a few people here that got pretty good money to sway them from better schools. I agree if you want to be in Boston and are super debt averse BU ED full ride probably isn't a bad option.


I do agree with others that if Boston is the place you must be the BU full ride is worth trying for. Looking at LSN nothing close to a full ride will come from BC/BU short of the BU ED option, and I can't imagine someone justifying six figures in debt from BC when they could grab CCN.

@nsbane: the other poster hit on it but just to reiterate, GPA floors are the issue here.

dissonance1848
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Re: Extreme splitter -- 3.45/180

Postby dissonance1848 » Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:06 am

Huh? No one here has checked LSN recently, have you? A guy ED'd to Chicago and got in with much worse numbers than OP.

Given the decline in applicants, and especially 175+ LSAT scores, OP is definitely getting into at least one of CCN, probably NYU. If OP EDs, then CLS or Chicago will almost certainly take him.

As for money, seems like Michigan and a few other schools are willing to throw money around. I bet OP can haggle 45-50k out of Michigan.

So, OP has quite a few more options than are being mentioned. Its the 2012 application cycle, not 2009 or 2010.

Whoever mentioned the Northwestern full ride ED option hit it right on the head.




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