Columbia chances?

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olive4444
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Columbia chances?

Postby olive4444 » Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:49 pm

I haven't taken my LSAT. I'm a sophomore with a 3.73 gpa. I was hearing that low gpa and lsat scores don't limit your chances as much as people think. Is this true. For instance if I continued my 3.73 gpa and I got a 160 on my LSAT am I still a good candidate?

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20130312
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Re: Columbia chances?

Postby 20130312 » Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:51 pm

http://www.lawschoolnumbers.com

Keep up that GPA, kill the LSAT. Both matter more than you could possibly imagine.

ryemanhattan
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Re: Columbia chances?

Postby ryemanhattan » Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:54 pm

No... you would have virtually no chance. Check out lawschoolnumbers.com.

GPA and LSAT count for between 70% and 95% of law school decisions, depending on the school. I made that statistic up, but it is laser-like accurate.

olive4444
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Re: Columbia chances?

Postby olive4444 » Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:56 pm

lol I was hoping you'd ease my mind. Is the LSAT hard? How many hours of studying should I do to help ensure a good score?

olive4444
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Re: Columbia chances?

Postby olive4444 » Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:57 pm

ryemanhattan wrote:No... you would have virtually no chance. Check out lawschoolnumbers.com.

GPA and LSAT count for between 70% and 95% of law school decisions, depending on the school. I made that statistic up, but it is laser-like accurate.


What.. but I've heard stories of students getting in with low G.P.A's. Oh no, well do I need a 170+ for Columbia to look at me as a potential candidate?

snehpets
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Re: Columbia chances?

Postby snehpets » Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:58 pm

olive4444 wrote:lol I was hoping you'd ease my mind. Is the LSAT hard? How many hours of studying should I do to help ensure a good score?


It's almost impossible to answer this, unfortunately. Some people it comes naturally to and they can score in the 170s without any prep. Others work 4 hours a day for months and still never break the 160s. It's a learnable test for most people, but until you take a diagnostic it's almost impossible to predict how much work you'll need or if you'll find it difficult.

And yeah, you need a 170+ if you have a 3.7. Minorities can get in with lower numbers, maybe that's who you've heard of.

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DaftAndDirect
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Re: Columbia chances?

Postby DaftAndDirect » Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:01 pm

I've always heard 3 months as the standard response time. A lot of DIY study plans on the web are packaged based on 3 month schedules. Prepping for much longer than 5 months seems to produce diminishing returns though based on my conversations with law school friends.

Pithypike's study plan on this forum worked well for a lot of people. Look it up.

olive4444
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Re: Columbia chances?

Postby olive4444 » Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:02 pm

So is everyone in Columbia a freaking genius? Is this the same policy for Fordham and NYU?

snehpets
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Re: Columbia chances?

Postby snehpets » Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:04 pm

olive4444 wrote:So is everyone in Columbia a freaking genius? Is this the same policy for Fordham and NYU?


Haha, you don't have to be a genius to get 170+. You just have to work a lot. Fordham is much easier to get into. NYU is a little easier probably, but not much. They also have a bigger class size if I remember correctly, which helps.

Although "much easier" doesn't actually mean it's easy. They're somewhat more lenient with GPA but you still need an LSAT in the mid to high 160s for the most part.
Last edited by snehpets on Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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crumpetsandtea
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Re: Columbia chances?

Postby crumpetsandtea » Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:05 pm

olive4444 wrote:I haven't taken my LSAT. I'm a sophomore with a 3.73 gpa. I was hearing that low gpa and lsat scores don't limit your chances as much as people think. Is this true. For instance if I continued my 3.73 gpa and I got a 160 on my LSAT am I still a good candidate?

There is no chance in hell you'll get accepted into a T14 school, much less Columbia, with a 160 (unless you are URM). You are selling yourself short if you settle for anything less than 17X. Doing well on the LSAT has nothing to do with being "a freaking genius" - it is about hard work and practice.

I dont' know anything about Fordham, but NYU will also not even bother with an applicant that has a 160 LSAT.

olive4444
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Re: Columbia chances?

Postby olive4444 » Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:07 pm

Thanks for the reply's and what is a URM? lol

snehpets
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Re: Columbia chances?

Postby snehpets » Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:09 pm

olive4444 wrote:Thanks for the reply's and what is a URM? lol


URM stands for under represented minority (Mexican American, African American, or Native American). It gives you a considerable boost in the admissions process (though the value of the boost varies from one minority group to the next).

olive4444
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Re: Columbia chances?

Postby olive4444 » Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:11 pm

Thank you so much! Okay, I was looking into the LSAT Bible an LSAT logic games Bible. Are they good reference as in study aids? What helped you guys?

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DaftAndDirect
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Re: Columbia chances?

Postby DaftAndDirect » Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:14 pm

Use these sites to get the lay of the land:

http://www.lawschoolnumbers.com/

http://www.lawschoolpredictor.com/

The numbers from these sites are not 100% accurate but they give a pretty fair big picture analysis for most candidates. Law school admissions is largely a numbers game - non-URMs getting in with low numbers (like numbers that fall below the ranges listed in TLS 25th - 75th% ranges for GPA and LSAT) are the exception to the rule.

Like Crumpets above said - getting a 170+ on the LSAT is more about practice than it is about being a genius. Some people will have the raw talent to get it without much studying sure - and others can work their butts off and never see the better side of 160. Take a diagnostic and see where you fall. If your first cold practice test is within a couple points of 150, I'd say you are very capable of hitting that 170+ with a rigorous and focused study program.

For now though, focus on that GPA. You can always take the LSAT years after college (like I did), but you only get so many years to shape your GPA.

Good Luck - Columbia is waiting for you.

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kwais
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Re: Columbia chances?

Postby kwais » Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:15 pm

The Bibles are good. As a previous poster mentioned, type Pithypike or 1776 into the search function on TLS and you will see what many believe to be solid plans. And no, not everyone at Columbia is a genius.

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20130312
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Re: Columbia chances?

Postby 20130312 » Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:25 pm

snehpets wrote:
olive4444 wrote:Thanks for the reply's and what is a URM? lol


URM stands for under represented minority (Mexican American, African American, or Native American). It gives you a considerable boost in the admissions process (though the value of the boost varies from one minority group to the next).


+ Puerto Rican. Only the four aforementioned groups get a bump for URM status.

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Guchster
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Re: Columbia chances?

Postby Guchster » Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:31 pm

olive4444 wrote:I haven't taken my LSAT. I'm a sophomore with a 3.73 gpa. I was hearing that low gpa and lsat scores don't limit your chances as much as people think. Is this true. For instance if I continued my 3.73 gpa and I got a 160 on my LSAT am I still a good candidate?


Image

olive4444
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Re: Columbia chances?

Postby olive4444 » Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:35 pm

Thanks, all of you have been very helpful. I will check out all the links and recommendations. I will post back if I have any further questions. :D

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crumpetsandtea
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Re: Columbia chances?

Postby crumpetsandtea » Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:47 pm

I have a few questions about your LSAT score - which section was the one you did the worst on? When are you planning to take the actual LSAT and apply? Also, as an aside, if you bring that GPA up to a 3.8 or even a 3.9 in the next 2-3 years, you're looking at a shot at T6 with a full ride or even HYS.

With that said, here is my basic suggestions on what to do to prep for the LSAT (compiled from past posts of mine on the subject):


crumpetsandtea wrote:At this point, there's no real purpose to you taking another practice test, so I'm going to caution you to NOT TAKE ANOTHER PRACTICE TEST.

Why, you ask?

Well, first of all, what makes you think that your score will improve between now and then with little to no practice? Moreover, if your score doesn't improve, what do you think the point of taking another test is? You might jump/drop a few points, but it's not going to make that big of a difference.

What you SHOULD be doing is taking a looong, close look at the test you just took. Ask yourself if you had timing issues (but don't worry about that jsut yet in your prep work) Get your hands on the Powerscore Bibles (LG/LR) and the Manhattan RC GUide and as many Practice Tests as you can (REAL ONES...but DO NOT use them yet, just get them now so you don't have to worry about it later).

After getting your hands on these, work through all 3 prep books VERY THOROUGHLY. Make sure you do all the problems, really read the guidelines, and get familiar with the techniques. THEN, do another practice test. After that test, re-assess your position: ideally you should have seen some sort of score jump on most sections, and one section will be your 'weaker' one.

Once you identify which section(s) are harder for you, the next step is to DRILL DRILL DRILL. Do as many questions as you possibly can to make sure you are familiar with the test and the curves it throws at you. Start with the questions untimed (if timing is an issue) and focus on ACCURACY. Once you are getting high accuracy on all the questions, start timing them (the Bibles will give you some idea of how long you should be spending on each question/passage/game). Then maybe do a few timed sections.

THEN, about 2-3 months before the test, start doing 2-3 PTs a week. The key to doing PTs is that you want to make sure you review VERY THOROUGHLY. Don't just grade the test then forget about it. Look at what you got wrong--why did you get them wrong? Why is the right answer correct? Did the writers of the test 'trick you' somehow (they do that a lot)? If so, how can you avoid being 'tricked' in the same way in the future? Is there a pattern between the types of questions you're missing?

At this point you should be improving more in your PTs. If you find yourself getting stuck in a rut and not improving between practice tests, stop doing them and go back to drilling. Drilling is the FOUNDATION of your LSAT knowledge, PT-ing is only useful for timing, mental endurance, and test-day-setting issues (ie: working under timed conditions, not in your bed at home, with a fake proctor, with distractions).

LSAT Blog has some AWESOME schedules to follow. It seems like the 7 month study schedule would work best with your timeline. I highly recommend looking at what he recommends and basing your schedule off it.

Last notes:
  • Don't burn yourself out! It's okay to go off schedule or change your schedule midway.
  • DO NOT take the test until you are PTing 3-4 points ABOVE your target goal. I was PT averaging at about 173-174 and I thought that would be enough. Instead, my nerves got the best of me and I ended up with a 169. For my second retake, I was averaging 177 and got my first (and only) 180 the week before the test. I ended up with a 176.
  • BE CONFIDENT!!! So much of the test day is about how nervous you are. You are AWESOME, don't forget it! There's no need to stress out so hard that you can't think on the day of the test.


(: Best of luck! <3

snehpets
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Re: Columbia chances?

Postby snehpets » Wed Jan 18, 2012 4:08 pm

InGoodFaith wrote:
snehpets wrote:
olive4444 wrote:Thanks for the reply's and what is a URM? lol


URM stands for under represented minority (Mexican American, African American, or Native American). It gives you a considerable boost in the admissions process (though the value of the boost varies from one minority group to the next).


+ Puerto Rican. Only the four aforementioned groups get a bump for URM status.


ooh good call, i knew i was forgetting one

olive4444
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Re: Columbia chances?

Postby olive4444 » Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:04 pm

I'm trying to bring it up to a 3.9. This is my goal. I just happened to get a B+ in one of my Honor's classes. :/ lol. Besides personal statements, GPA an LSAT what else does Law school look for? Do they care about clubs or other extra curricular activities?

snehpets
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Re: Columbia chances?

Postby snehpets » Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:00 pm

olive4444 wrote:I'm trying to bring it up to a 3.9. This is my goal. I just happened to get a B+ in one of my Honor's classes. :/ lol. Besides personal statements, GPA an LSAT what else does Law school look for? Do they care about clubs or other extra curricular activities?


Not really. I mean, it might push you over the edge with an identical but uninvolved applicant. Also places like Stanford, Harvard, and Yale care more, but they want people who have built orphanages in Africa, started their own companies, etc., rather than people who are in charge of on-campus clubs. I mean, they won't dislike that, but it generally won't be a huge boost. If you have to choose between heavy involvement and a higher GPA the GPA wins basically every time.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Columbia chances?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:54 pm

snehpets wrote:
olive4444 wrote:I'm trying to bring it up to a 3.9. This is my goal. I just happened to get a B+ in one of my Honor's classes. :/ lol. Besides personal statements, GPA an LSAT what else does Law school look for? Do they care about clubs or other extra curricular activities?


Not really. I mean, it might push you over the edge with an identical but uninvolved applicant. Also places like Stanford, Harvard, and Yale care more, but they want people who have built orphanages in Africa, started their own companies, etc., rather than people who are in charge of on-campus clubs. I mean, they won't dislike that, but it generally won't be a huge boost. If you have to choose between heavy involvement and a higher GPA the GPA wins basically every time.


Well said. Your best bet is to focus on getting straight As the rest of the way. A+ counts for law school even if it doesn't count for undergrad, so try to get an A+ in any class that offers one. You only get one chance to get that GPA as high as possible, but you can retake the LSAT if needed. Just go for a 4.0 dawg.




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