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Not sure where your numbers will get you? Dying to know where you stand? Come have your palms read by your fellow posters!
FinallyGoing
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Postby FinallyGoing » Sat Jan 07, 2012 3:42 am

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Last edited by FinallyGoing on Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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5ky
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Re: National Debate Champion; weight as a soft?

Postby 5ky » Sat Jan 07, 2012 3:55 am

It's better than just doing debate, but not significantly so. Don't count on it changing any decisions.

flcath
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Re: National Debate Champion; weight as a soft?

Postby flcath » Sat Jan 07, 2012 4:24 am

I suspect that it will mean more if you end up (due to your LSAT) looking in the TTT/TTTT range than if you're looking at tier 1 schools. A lot of TTTs have really great moot court / trial ad programs, and they're often the pride of the school.

FinallyGoing
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Re: National Debate Champion; weight as a soft?

Postby FinallyGoing » Sat Jan 07, 2012 5:46 am

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Last edited by FinallyGoing on Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

HamDel
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Re: National Debate Champion; weight as a soft?

Postby HamDel » Sat Jan 07, 2012 6:03 am

Sadly I think this will matter very little. It's an impressive accomplishment, but without the numbers it's going to be really tough to sway any of the top law schools. I'm sure it will be a helpful factor for whatever schools are in your numerical range, but it's probably not going to help you punch above your weight. If you don't mind me asking, was it the LSAT or the GPA that is holding you back? It seems like a lot of debate skills would translate well to law school and it must take a lot of dedication to get to that level, so it's sort of surprising that you don't have the whole package together here.

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emkay625
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Re: National Debate Champion; weight as a soft?

Postby emkay625 » Sat Jan 07, 2012 7:41 am

I have one from high school and college (ie though, not debate). I don't think it will help my cycle at all. So far it hasn't. We'll see.

FinallyGoing
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Re: National Debate Champion; weight as a soft?

Postby FinallyGoing » Sat Jan 07, 2012 6:30 pm

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Last edited by FinallyGoing on Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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kulshan
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Re: National Debate Champion; weight as a soft?

Postby kulshan » Sat Jan 07, 2012 6:34 pm

I played up my second place finish a bit on the app, no idea whether it helped much, though. Presumably we know each other IRL. PM me if you want.

duckmoney
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Re: National Debate Champion; weight as a soft?

Postby duckmoney » Sat Jan 07, 2012 6:54 pm

That would be something very interesting to discuss with legal employers, and may be a significant boost if you want to do litigation.

However, schools just don't care about anything but the numbers.

thederangedwang
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Re: National Debate Champion; weight as a soft?

Postby thederangedwang » Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:11 am

It's a good soft...but like others sad..sadly, it won't help THAT much. Law school really is a numbers game

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dr123
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Re: National Debate Champion; weight as a soft?

Postby dr123 » Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:52 am

emkay625 wrote:I have one from high school and college (ie though, not debate). I don't think it will help my cycle at all. So far it hasn't. We'll see.

You put stuff from HS on your resume?

fonseca33
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Re: National Debate Champion; weight as a soft?

Postby fonseca33 » Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:23 am

In my experience applying to law school circa 2009 -- it is not at all helpful. I had this factor going for me and I did not get in at any school I considered a reach for my GPA/LSAT. Also, I remember being told it was not a good choice for personal statement because it would be super predictable.

As an aside, some success at debate is a pretty good indicator of success in law school. To be fair, I think this is mostly because top level debaters tend to be very competitive and this makes them natural gunners. In my experience with law firm interviews, debate is (relatively) interesting to discuss and I think lead to a couple of callbacks I might not have gotten without it. Very successful former debaters and IEers are usually standouts at moot court. And I can say with confidence, my involvement in debate/IEs likely got me the job I'll start in the fall.

In sum, debate is helpful at nearly everything except actually getting you into school.

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emkay625
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Re: National Debate Champion; weight as a soft?

Postby emkay625 » Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:44 am

emkay625 wrote:I have one from high school and college (ie though, not debate). I don't think it will help my cycle at all. So far it hasn't. We'll see.


nope just college. to be fair though, it is like only one line as i have a lot of work experience. it's in an lor though.

Fark-o-vision
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Re: National Debate Champion; weight as a soft?

Postby Fark-o-vision » Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:56 am

I think people misunderstand soft factors most of the time. What I've been lead to believe is that they generally won't help you get into a school that your numbers won't, but that many of the elite schools have options when putting their classes together. In order words, students with good enough numbers get rejected all of the time (and this becomes truer the higher in the rankings you go) and softs are simply those factors which help them choose from within that pool.

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patrickd139
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Re: National Debate Champion; weight as a soft?

Postby patrickd139 » Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:18 am

If it were policy, then it'd be a significant soft. But parli? Does anyone still even debate that way anymore?

FinallyGoing
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Re: National Debate Champion; weight as a soft?

Postby FinallyGoing » Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:13 am

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Last edited by FinallyGoing on Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

fonseca33
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Re: National Debate Champion; weight as a soft?

Postby fonseca33 » Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:01 am

FinallyGoing wrote:
patrickd139 wrote:If it were policy, then it'd be a significant soft. But parli? Does anyone still even debate that way anymore?


I would argue that parli debate is a much more intellectually rigorous form of debate than policy insofar as the keys to success in parli call upon a much for dynamic set of intellectual abilities than do policy.


LOL - no.

Image

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patrickd139
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Re: National Debate Champion; weight as a soft?

Postby patrickd139 » Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:53 pm

FinallyGoing wrote:
patrickd139 wrote:If it were policy, then it'd be a significant soft. But parli? Does anyone still even debate that way anymore?


I would argue that parli debate is a much more intellectually rigorous form of debate than policy insofar as the keys to success in parli call upon a much for dynamic set of intellectual abilities than do policy.

I was just trolling you. Winning nationals at anything is a pretty big deal.

That said, it's not an exceptional soft. Two of the three 'national debate champions' at my school didn't even break to the out rounds of my 1L moot court competition.

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Smumps
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Re: National Debate Champion; weight as a soft?

Postby Smumps » Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:23 am

FinallyGoing wrote:
patrickd139 wrote:If it were policy, then it'd be a significant soft. But parli? Does anyone still even debate that way anymore?


I would argue that parli debate is a much more intellectually rigorous form of debate than policy insofar as the keys to success in parli call upon a much for dynamic set of intellectual abilities than do policy.


As someone that did policy in High School and was Parli natl champ runner up, no. Just no.

On topic - it will not help much. I was also advised not to do my PS on it, and I think it was sound advice. It's one (short) line on my resume and that's it.

FinallyGoing
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Re: National Debate Champion; weight as a soft?

Postby FinallyGoing » Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:35 am

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Last edited by FinallyGoing on Mon May 07, 2012 3:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Gizmo
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Re: National Debate Champion; weight as a soft?

Postby Gizmo » Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:46 am

FinallyGoing wrote:brb arguing the same topic for months.

Politics DAs must have been stupid(er) as fuck for the last 2 years. What a silly activity.

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Smumps
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Re: National Debate Champion; weight as a soft?

Postby Smumps » Tue Jan 10, 2012 1:05 am

FinallyGoing wrote:brb arguing the same topic for months.


Probably don't want to derail your own thread. But if you care, I think depth >breadth. I also think doing actual, substantive research is important. Only one of us has done both. And both are good activities. Good luck with your applications.

FinallyGoing
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Re: National Debate Champion; weight as a soft?

Postby FinallyGoing » Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:05 am

Smumps wrote:
FinallyGoing wrote:brb arguing the same topic for months.


Probably don't want to derail your own thread. But if you care, I think depth >breadth. I also think doing actual, substantive research is important. Only one of us has done both. And both are good activities. Good luck with your applications.


Don't strawman Parli. The best (ahem) Parli debaters do quite a bit of research.

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mountaintime
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Re: National Debate Champion; weight as a soft?

Postby mountaintime » Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:16 am

+1 LSAT point

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Smumps
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Re: National Debate Champion; weight as a soft?

Postby Smumps » Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:03 pm

FinallyGoing wrote:
Smumps wrote:
FinallyGoing wrote:brb arguing the same topic for months.


Probably don't want to derail your own thread. But if you care, I think depth >breadth. I also think doing actual, substantive research is important. Only one of us has done both. And both are good activities. Good luck with your applications.


Don't strawman Parli. The best (ahem) Parli debaters do quite a bit of research.


No, they don't. The "research" you speak of is either a good amount of reading, or cannibalizing policy files into Parli format. The average high school policy debater will put in more time on one file than the best Parli debater will do in a month, maybe more. I will repeat that it's a great activity, but why those that do it feel the need to justify how intellectually rigorous it is is beyond me.

And agree with poster above, +1 LSAT!




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