GPA of 3.26 and LSAT of 150... HELP!

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donklob
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Re: GPA of 3.26 and LSAT of 150... HELP!

Postby donklob » Fri Jan 06, 2012 8:32 pm

berkeleykel06 wrote:This is the type of situation that really makes me hate that T4 schools are even able to operate. You do not have the credentials for law school. You have neither a good GPA nor a good (or even decent LSAT). To go to law school you need to have at least one of the two, preferably both. You can't change your GPA, so you need to work on your LSAT.

The problem with T4s is that they make you think that you can go to law school despite your crappy credentials, so you don't work hard enough to raise them. But assuming the definition of a law school is a place where students attend and afterwards become practicing attorneys with jobs that pay enough to service their loan debt, T4s are not really law schools. Everyone attends them thinking they will be the special snowflake that does better than the everyone else and magically ends up employed and wealthy, but the majority of people will not be special and will end up in a state of financial despair.

Raise your LSAT or don't go to law school. If you truly want to be a lawyer and your not just going to law school for something to do you'd want to put yourself in the best position to actually get a job after graduating.



I have spent over a year studying for the LSAT horrible LSAT number for that kind of time I know, and law school for me is not about wealth its about success and actually doing good as cliche was that sounds. I mean who are you to say that a school cannot provide a successful career for a student?

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law4vus
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Re: GPA of 3.26 and LSAT of 150... HELP!

Postby law4vus » Fri Jan 06, 2012 8:46 pm

donklob wrote:I have spent over a year studying for the LSAT horrible LSAT number for that kind of time I know, and law school for me is not about wealth its about success and actually doing good as cliche was that sounds. I mean who are you to say that a school cannot provide a successful career for a student?


I truly don't mean to be a douche here, but if a year of studying only netted you a 155, how do you expect to do well enough on a law school exam to be in the top 10%?

You may end up at a crappy school, but law school is still hard anywhere you go and grading is almost random. There's no way to guarantee top 10% for yourself and you've proven that you can't succeed on a test that is 100 times easier than a law school exam.

I'd really reconsider this, especially if you're getting married. No need to saddle your new marriage with 200K in non-dischargeable debt for an extremely low chance of success.

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JustE
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Re: GPA of 3.26 and LSAT of 150... HELP!

Postby JustE » Fri Jan 06, 2012 8:46 pm

I'd like to point your attention to these links... specifically the stories at ATL... If you choose to go to any of these schools after reading any of this, you deserve whatever you get. Good luck. God bless. Don't go.

Touro:
http://abovethelaw.com/tag/touro-law-school/
--LinkRemoved--

AboveTheLaw wrote:Mistrial After Judge Is ‘Astonished’ By Touro Grad’s Incompetence
By ELIE MYSTAL

Look, Touro Law students and alumni, please don’t get mad at me. I’m just the messenger.

The Washington Post is reporting that a D.C. Superior Court judge, William Jackson, declared a mistrial in a murder case on Friday so that the defendant could fire his lawyer. The attorney, Joseph Rakofsky, a 2009 graduate of Touro Law School, showed “numerous signs” that he “lacked knowledge of proper trial procedure,” according to the judge.

If you are wondering why people sometimes make fun of Touro and other very low-ranked law schools, it’s because this kind of stuff is straight-up embarrassing. Good schools try to not let people like this into to law school, and they certainly don’t let them depart so poorly trained.

But most damning of all is that Joseph Rakofsky doesn’t even seem to understand how totally embarrassing this result is for him. The kid is bragging about the result, on Facebook…"


Widener:
http://abovethelaw.com/tag/widener-law/
--LinkRemoved--

New York Law School:
http://abovethelaw.com/new-york-law-school/
--LinkRemoved--
Last edited by JustE on Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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JustE
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Re: GPA of 3.26 and LSAT of 150... HELP!

Postby JustE » Fri Jan 06, 2012 8:55 pm

donklob wrote:
berkeleykel06 wrote:This is the type of situation that really makes me hate that T4 schools are even able to operate. You do not have the credentials for law school. You have neither a good GPA nor a good (or even decent LSAT). To go to law school you need to have at least one of the two, preferably both. You can't change your GPA, so you need to work on your LSAT.

The problem with T4s is that they make you think that you can go to law school despite your crappy credentials, so you don't work hard enough to raise them. But assuming the definition of a law school is a place where students attend and afterwards become practicing attorneys with jobs that pay enough to service their loan debt, T4s are not really law schools. Everyone attends them thinking they will be the special snowflake that does better than the everyone else and magically ends up employed and wealthy, but the majority of people will not be special and will end up in a state of financial despair.

Raise your LSAT or don't go to law school. If you truly want to be a lawyer and your not just going to law school for something to do you'd want to put yourself in the best position to actually get a job after graduating.



I have spent over a year studying for the LSAT horrible LSAT number for that kind of time I know, and law school for me is not about wealth its about success and actually doing good as cliche was that sounds. I mean who are you to say that a school cannot provide a successful career for a student?



Ummm... I love your passion, seriously... But... The jobs for people who want to "do good" go to kids at T1 schools (specifically the T14). If we knew specifically what you wanted to do, we might be able to give better advice... but, I doubt the advice would change...

I understand you spent the last year studying for the LSAT... I took my first LSAT course in 2007, believe it or not, and scored a 153 in Oct. 2010. Was I studying for the entire 3 years? No. Point is, I've been working towards this goal for a lonnnnnggggg #&@^ing time. I took the time to learn the correct way to prep and in October 2011 I scored a 166.

A 166 would get you into several T1 schools. And it can be done by spending hours on TLS learning the correct way to prepare for the test. It will cost money. It will take time. You will hate your life for months on end (I studied every morning from 5-9am before starting 9 hour work days for 90 days). BUT, it will be worth it.

Yes, you do have a chance to do anything you could possibly dream of coming out of any of these schools (with the possible exception of President of the United States). Just understand that the lower the ranking, the harder the time you're going to have. Take a year and make things a bit easier on yourself.

Good luck.
Last edited by JustE on Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

donklob
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Re: GPA of 3.26 and LSAT of 150... HELP!

Postby donklob » Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:08 pm

JustE wrote:
donklob wrote:
berkeleykel06 wrote:This is the type of situation that really makes me hate that T4 schools are even able to operate. You do not have the credentials for law school. You have neither a good GPA nor a good (or even decent LSAT). To go to law school you need to have at least one of the two, preferably both. You can't change your GPA, so you need to work on your LSAT.

The problem with T4s is that they make you think that you can go to law school despite your crappy credentials, so you don't work hard enough to raise them. But assuming the definition of a law school is a place where students attend and afterwards become practicing attorneys with jobs that pay enough to service their loan debt, T4s are not really law schools. Everyone attends them thinking they will be the special snowflake that does better than the everyone else and magically ends up employed and wealthy, but the majority of people will not be special and will end up in a state of financial despair.

Raise your LSAT or don't go to law school. If you truly want to be a lawyer and your not just going to law school for something to do you'd want to put yourself in the best position to actually get a job after graduating.



I have spent over a year studying for the LSAT horrible LSAT number for that kind of time I know, and law school for me is not about wealth its about success and actually doing good as cliche was that sounds. I mean who are you to say that a school cannot provide a successful career for a student?



Ummm... I love your passion, seriously... But... The jobs for people who want to "do good" go to kids at T1 schools (specifically the T14). If we knew specifically what you wanted to do, we might be able to give better advice... but, I doubt the advice would change...

I understand you spent the last year studying for the LSAT... I took my first LSAT course in 2007, believe it or not, and scored a 153 in the Oct. 2010. Was I studying for the entire 3 years? No. Point is, I've been working towards this goal for a lonnnnnggggg #&@^ing time. I took the time to learn the correct way to prep and in October 2011 I scored a 166.

A 166 would get you into several T1 schools. And it can be done by spending hours on TLS learning the correct way to prepare for the test. It will cost money. It will take time. You will hate your life for months on end (I studied every morning from 5-9am before starting 9 hour work days for 90 days). BUT, it will be worth it.

Yes, you do have a chance to do anything you could possibly dream of coming out of any of these schools (with the possible exception of President of the United States). Just understand that the lower the ranking, the harder the time you're going to have. Take a year and make things a bit easier on yourself.

Good luck.



The use of personal experience was the most persuasive part of this comment. I will take some time to think about it. If DAMNED law schools would have rolling admissions just twice a year there would be no argument.

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Philosopher King
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Re: GPA of 3.26 and LSAT of 150... HELP!

Postby Philosopher King » Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:10 pm

donklob wrote:The use of personal experience was the most persuasive part of this comment. I will take some time to think about it. If DAMNED law schools would have rolling admissions just twice a year there would be no argument.


Hey, the enemy is LSAC and U.S. News & World Report and don't you forget it. Law schools are not as evil.

donklob
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Re: GPA of 3.26 and LSAT of 150... HELP!

Postby donklob » Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:14 pm

Philosopher King wrote:
donklob wrote:The use of personal experience was the most persuasive part of this comment. I will take some time to think about it. If DAMNED law schools would have rolling admissions just twice a year there would be no argument.


Hey, the enemy is LSAC and U.S. News & World Report and don't you forget it. Law schools are not as evil.


in a utopian society the qualifications to be ABA accredited would be so great that you wouldn't need a ranking.

Paul Campos
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Re: GPA of 3.26 and LSAT of 150... HELP!

Postby Paul Campos » Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:22 pm

This thread depresses the hell out of me.

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danitt
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Re: GPA of 3.26 and LSAT of 150... HELP!

Postby danitt » Sat Jan 07, 2012 12:00 am

I don't understand why people come and ask for advice only to ignore and/or argue with the sound advice they receive? If what is desired is an echo chamber why even bother?

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mattviphky
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Re: GPA of 3.26 and LSAT of 150... HELP!

Postby mattviphky » Sat Jan 07, 2012 12:55 am

its not about going to a low ranked school, its about going to a low ranked school with no scholarship money. Go to Touro, i don't care. But I sincerely hope you study and retake just so that you can leverage significant money from them.

thederangedwang
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Re: GPA of 3.26 and LSAT of 150... HELP!

Postby thederangedwang » Sat Jan 07, 2012 12:59 am

danitt wrote:I don't understand why people come and ask for advice only to ignore and/or argue with the sound advice they receive? If what is desired is an echo chamber why even bother?

He's probably from the south :roll:

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Nelson
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Re: GPA of 3.26 and LSAT of 150... HELP!

Postby Nelson » Sat Jan 07, 2012 1:02 am

Paul Campos wrote:This thread depresses the hell out of me.

I love you Real Paul Campos.

jared6180
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Re: GPA of 3.26 and LSAT of 150... HELP!

Postby jared6180 » Sat Jan 07, 2012 1:37 am

I cant think of a single school worth going to that a 150 LSAT will get you into.

timbs4339
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Re: GPA of 3.26 and LSAT of 150... HELP!

Postby timbs4339 » Sat Jan 07, 2012 3:50 am

OP: What kind of starting job at what salary do you expect to be able to get (at a minimum) when you leave law school?

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Philosopher King
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Re: GPA of 3.26 and LSAT of 150... HELP!

Postby Philosopher King » Sat Jan 07, 2012 3:51 am

jared6180 wrote:I cant think of a single school worth going to that a 150 LSAT will get you into.


There is no school worth going to since you go to school in your life and there is no life worth living.

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JustE
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Re: GPA of 3.26 and LSAT of 150... HELP!

Postby JustE » Sat Jan 07, 2012 5:04 am

thederangedwang wrote:
danitt wrote:I don't understand why people come and ask for advice only to ignore and/or argue with the sound advice they receive? If what is desired is an echo chamber why even bother?

He's probably from the south :roll:

Hold up. I'm from the South. Most of us ain't dumb and most of us ain't going to NYLS.

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Errzii
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Re: GPA of 3.26 and LSAT of 150... HELP!

Postby Errzii » Sat Jan 07, 2012 5:32 am

danitt wrote:I don't understand why people come and ask for advice only to ignore and/or argue with the sound advice they receive? If what is desired is an echo chamber why even bother?


Because those people are already committed to certain viewpoints and are only looking for reassurance aka circlejerking.

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sunynp
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Re: GPA of 3.26 and LSAT of 150... HELP!

Postby sunynp » Sat Jan 07, 2012 6:51 am

As you managed to get real Paul Campos to post in this thread - you might want to find out who he is and read his blog. He just won the lawyer of the year award on the website above the law. Who knows he might even write about you!

donklob
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Re: GPA of 3.26 and LSAT of 150... HELP!

Postby donklob » Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:27 am

FALSE. Not looking to circle jerk anyone. Actually after 2 days of contemplation and 4 pints of beer I am officially leaning towards retaking the LSAT in June and applying for 2013 admissions. If a forum post is good enough to depress Paul Campos then a second thought is definitely in order.

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goldenflash19
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Re: GPA of 3.26 and LSAT of 150... HELP!

Postby goldenflash19 » Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:37 am

Retake in June is a great decision. 151 is the test average, so you weren't even in the top 50% of the LSAT. Don't bank on being in the top 10% of your class. 1L grades sound like a crapshoot anyway. The "big fish in a TTTT pond" ideology doesn't work for 90% of those who attend.

TLS convinced me to retake. I am loving life right now. It sucks, but it is so worth it. You can do it.

Good luck!

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rinkrat19
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Re: GPA of 3.26 and LSAT of 150... HELP!

Postby rinkrat19 » Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:45 am

donklob wrote:If I go to Touro/Widener any other tier 4 and stay atop the top 10% how could you not stand out when it comes to job opportunities? how many people here have gone through the Law Schools we chastise? or at least know some one who has come out of the schools we discuss here? I love this site but man do a lot of the people here put the fear of Satan in you!
~45,000 new law grads every year. The most optimistic estimates say ~30,000 new law jobs every year. Most of that unlucky 15,000 are coming from schools like Touro and Widener, not T14 (although no one is 100% safe).
donklob wrote:FALSE. Not looking to circle jerk anyone. Actually after 2 days of contemplation and 4 pints of beer I am officially leaning towards retaking the LSAT in June and applying for 2013 admissions. If a forum post is good enough to depress Paul Campos then a second thought is definitely in order.
This is beautiful news. Wishing you all the luck in the world at this approach.

LawperaMan
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Re: GPA of 3.26 and LSAT of 150... HELP!

Postby LawperaMan » Sun Jan 08, 2012 2:00 am

Why do you want to go to law school? Do you need the money? Is your future spouse a millionaire? If money is not important, and you are planning on going into solo practice or public interest, you may be OK (odds would still be better with better creds/school, but still possible)/. Most of the posters are thinking about Big Law, and if that is not you, your perspective may be different.

On the flip side, there is no specialization that penalizes for an increased school prestige. Your odds of accomplishing your goals will almost always be better with a better school.




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