Interesting, 155/3.9 - opinions appreciated Forum

[matt690]

Hi,

I went up since my first lsat. I will not be taking the lsat again. I'm finishing my personal statement, and I may write a diversity statement, although I am not a minority. Should I write a diversity statement? Why ____ school (to increase scholarship chances)? LSAT addendum (for the lsat/gpa split)?

I have a 3.9 gpa and 155 lsat. My resume is good (community service / law firm job / school judicial board).

Given that I will be applying within a couple of weeks and will definitely not be taking the lsat again, I am trying to figure out schools to apply to. I'm hoping to apply to some highly ranked schools that it appears I may have a chance to get into, some target schools, and some safety schools for money. Financials are a concern and big factor, and it seems that I can possibly get money to some decent schools or get into some pretty good state schools. Based on research and some of the predictor website combined with the above criteria (decent schools and price - scholarship money or state tuition), my list is very extensive which is frustrating.


Some of my extensive list with my thoughts (reach, target, money) are below. Do you agree with the schools/opinions? Do any other schools come to mind (mostly east coast)?

Thanks so much, I really apprecaite everyone's opinions.

U Miami (get in, probably no money)
Syracuse (get in, hoping for money, not sure how much)
Hofstra (get in, hoping for money, not sure how much)
St. Johns (probably get in, no money)
Cardozo (reach, maybe get in)
Fordham (reach, probably not get in)
New York Law (get in, money)
Brooklyn (reach, probably not get in)
SUNY Buffalo (hoping to get in, state tuition for me)
Quinnipiac (get in, hoping for money, school reputation seems bad)
University of Florida (seems like i may have chance of getting in, could try for state tuition since pretty easy)
California Berkley (reach, maybe can get in, state tuition possible but tough)
California Hastings (reach, maybe can get in, state tuition possible but tough)
UCLA (reach, maybe can get in, no money, state tuition possible but tough)
-Any other California state school (they all seem decent and possibly state tuition possible but tough)?
North Carolina (reach, maybe can get in, try for state tuition but not too easy)
Maryland (maybe can get in, try for state tuition but not too easy)
Florida State (probably can get in, probably state tuition)
Florida Coastal (get in, money, doesn't seem like great school)
Albany (get in, no money, safety school)
Penn State (seems like I can get in, maybe some money? maybe try for state tuition, not sure if PA is difficult?)
Northeastern (seems like I can get in, not sure about money)
Villanova (slight reach, no money)
Rutgers (seems like I can get in, state tuition doesn't seem hard to get)
University Connecticut (seems like I can get in, not sure if CT state tuition is difficult?)

*Two very reaches that may be worth a chance, no money
-NYU
-Northwestern

Thanks again.

[serdog]

If you have a Retake left use it

[omninode]

Most of the schools on your list are almost certainly out of reach. This indicates that you will be unhappy with the schools that are likely to accept you. You should probably think about retaking or putting law school aside for a few years to reevaluate.

Also, check out http://lawschoolnumbers.com if you haven't already.

[matt690]

Thanks for the info so far.

I will not be retaking anymore, and I will be applying to law school within the week and going in the Fall.

Many of the schools I listed came up at "consider" or "very good chance."

What do you think in terms of getting in, what reaches I may have a chance at, or getting money (scholar or state tuition)?

[hob12]

Hi,

I went up since my first lsat. I will not be taking the lsat again.

I'm pretty sure that ship has sailed. OP is looking for opinions on his list, since he made it pretty clear he wont retake. Anyway it would really be too late to retake and still apply this cycle.

[cinephile]

I think that the lawschoolpredictor might be overly optimistic for reverse splitters.

Don't think a diversity statement will really help you, especially as you haven't articulated a reason why you are diverse.

Given your scores, go wherever you can the best scholarship/cheapest school. Don't try for a reach like Cardozo, which will probably give you no scholarship and isn't ranked high enough to be worth it without money.

[Richie Tenenbaum]

If you don't retake, law school is probably a mistake for you. It is doubtful you will get into a law school that will provide you with decent legal opportunities after graduation. If you insist on going through with this at least go to the cheapest school possible in the area you want to work. (Avoid grade stipulations though and if that's not possible make sure you know the consequences of dropping out if you don't make the required grade--some schools try to get you to pay them back for the initial scholarship.) That way you can: 1) drop out with less debt after the first semester if your grades aren't that great; 2) have the least debt possible if you graduate without any job; or 3) take a low paying legal job (if you can get one) since your debt payments won't be that big.

If you really want to be a lawyer, the best advice you are going to get is to be "retake." If that means waiting a year--so be it. Why are you so opposed to this advice? Sometimes there is a legitimate excuse, but usually there is not.

[matt690]

I apprecaite's everyone taking the time to post, but to be very honest, I purposely asked for advice about the schools I listed (for getting in, for state tuition, for scholar money, and over school/applying/acceptance opinions), and every response has said to retake.

I will not be retaking. I have my reasons; I will be going to one of these schools (or another one if someone has a recommendation), and I will make the best of it and be successful in my own way.

Please, I apprecaite any advice that does not involve retaking and that involves schools on the list or others that I can and should consider based on great reputation, financials, or both. Thanks so much.

[law4vus]

I will not be retaking. I have my reasons; I will be going to one of these schools (or another one if someone has a recommendation), and I will make the best of it and be successful in my own way.

I don't think people are going to let it go this quickly. The climate of the legal economy is such that going to a school that will accept a 155 LSAT at full price is a BAD idea. Everyone here is actually looking out for you by explaining that retaking is your best option, especially with that fantastic GPA.

I'm sure you have all the confidence in the world in yourself and I think that's a great quality to have. That being said, law school grading really is pretty much a random process, so even if you outwork your competition you could very well end up at the bottom of your class. It's ridiculous, but that's the nature of the beast.

Let's be honest - you aren't retaking the LSAT why? Because you don't feel like studying for it again? If this is the case, please please please consider why you're going to law school. Law school is literally 100x harder than the LSAT and you really have to consider whether you can handle that if you can't handle taking an extremely learnable test over.

Studying an extra few months, taking a year off, getting good work experience, and applying to a T14 is going to help you out MUCH more in the long run than what you are currently doing. It will help during OCI and make you a more attractive potential employee. I understand the pressure of going to school right away because it's a goal of yours, but you REALLY need to look at the big picture.

[Ludo!]

What part about this was supposed to be interesting?

[matt690]

Does anyone have any opinion on my chances for these schools listed for admission and financials? Any other schools I should consider that are fairly good and where I could possibly get money?

Thanks so much for your help with analyzing this list and any other schools.

[Nelson]

Does anyone have any opinion on my chances for these schools listed for admission and financials? Any other schools I should consider that are fairly good and where I could possibly get money?

Thanks so much for your help with analyzing this list and any other schools.

Anywhere you can get in with a 155 isn't worth sticker price and most places that would give your numbers a big scholarship will have brutal stipulations on the money. Why do you want anonymous people on the internet to validate a poor decision for you?

[matt690]

I thought I could get decent scholarships without bad stipulations from Hofstra, Syracuse, Quinnipiac, Western New England, New England, and possibly a few others.

I thought I could maybe get into UF Law or Rutgers or Buffalo and pay state tuition.

All decent schools. Not the best, but decent, and not at full prices. Just what I'd be happy with.

Are these realistic thoughts?

[Nelson]

I thought I could get decent scholarships without bad stipulations from Hofstra, Syracuse, Quinnipiac, Western New England, New England, and possibly a few others.

I thought I could maybe get into UF Law or Rutgers or Buffalo and pay state tuition.

All decent schools. Not the best, but decent, and not at full prices. Just what I'd be happy with.

Are these realistic thoughts?

One of the Rutgers at instate sounds the most appealing of all of those. Florida is a bad idea and I have no idea what the upstate NY legal market is like but it can't be pretty.

The private schools in your first paragraph are all notorious for bad stips (and high debt loads) and poor prospects.

[dolfan0516]

I thought I could get decent scholarships without bad stipulations from Hofstra, Syracuse, Quinnipiac, Western New England, New England, and possibly a few others.

I thought I could maybe get into UF Law or Rutgers or Buffalo and pay state tuition.

All decent schools. Not the best, but decent, and not at full prices. Just what I'd be happy with.

Are these realistic thoughts?

Pretty obvious no to UF with a 155. Dont even think you have a good chance of getting in to Miami.

[wannabejag]

I will not be retaking. I have my reasons; I will be going to one of these schools (or another one if someone has a recommendation), and I will make the best of it and be successful in my own way.

Please, I apprecaite any advice that does not involve retaking and that involves schools on the list or others that I can and should consider based on great reputation, financials, or both. Thanks so much.

People don't understand what that means in this forum. Yes the economy is bad. Yes its hard to get jobs. Yes some schools are better then others; but if everybody friggen "retakes" as much as its suggested in this forum, there would be no friggen law students because even a 181 is not good enough. So, basically always retake. Just take it over, over and over, because the letters r-e-t-a-k-e are the only keys that produce letters on the screen once you log into TLS Forums.

Probably one of the more frustrating things in here when you are actually looking for RELEVANT advice.

[snehpets]

Definitely would not bother applying to NYU or NW. You don't seem like you have full term work experience (though maybe you do) which NW wants anyway.

[Ludo!]

I will not be retaking. I have my reasons; I will be going to one of these schools (or another one if someone has a recommendation), and I will make the best of it and be successful in my own way.

Please, I apprecaite any advice that does not involve retaking and that involves schools on the list or others that I can and should consider based on great reputation, financials, or both. Thanks so much.

People don't understand what that means in this forum. Yes the economy is bad. Yes its hard to get jobs. Yes some schools are better then others; but if everybody friggen "retakes" as much as its suggested in this forum, there would be no friggen law students because even a 181 is not good enough. So, basically always retake. Just take it over, over and over, because the letters r-e-t-a-k-e are the only keys that produce letters on the screen once you log into TLS Forums.

Probably one of the more frustrating things in here when you are actually looking for RELEVANT advice.

People on this forum usually tell people to retake because it's the right advice. HTH

[kalvano]

Where do you want to end up? Retaking seems like the best idea since your GPA is so stellar, but barring that, where you should go largely depends on where you want to practice. Some of the schools on your list that you have a chance at are actually not that bad, for regional schools, but you need to decide which region you want to be in. Rutgers, Penn State, UConn - they are all pretty good for their respective regions.

[Richie Tenenbaum]

I will not be retaking. I have my reasons; I will be going to one of these schools (or another one if someone has a recommendation), and I will make the best of it and be successful in my own way.

Please, I apprecaite any advice that does not involve retaking and that involves schools on the list or others that I can and should consider based on great reputation, financials, or both. Thanks so much.

People don't understand what that means in this forum. Yes the economy is bad. Yes its hard to get jobs. Yes some schools are better then others; but if everybody friggen "retakes" as much as its suggested in this forum, there would be no friggen law students because even a 181 is not good enough. So, basically always retake. Just take it over, over and over, because the letters r-e-t-a-k-e are the only keys that produce letters on the screen once you log into TLS Forums.

Probably one of the more frustrating things in here when you are actually looking for RELEVANT advice.

1) Not every law school applicant is on TLS.
2) Not every law school applicant who is on TLS who is told retake actually does it.

People say retake because the majority of law schools are not worth the cost at sticker. This is not a prestige thing, this is not a "I want the best job possible" thing, but rather this is a "Do you actually want a legal job after graduation and to not be drowning in debt" kind of thing. The bimodal curve is still how the current system is, even if it's a stupid way to do things. Add to that fact that the economy sucks, which makes all legal jobs harder to get, and you have a recipe for disaster for the majority of law students right now. TLS is telling people to retake and to limit debt because that is typically the most rational thing to do (assuming someone really, really wants to be a lawyer).

[charliep]

i wish i could retake again...

[Richie Tenenbaum]

Relevant reading for those who consider the retake mantra as annoying and unhelpful:
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 4&t=172609
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 3&t=168258

[cinephile]

I thought I could get decent scholarships without bad stipulations from Hofstra, Syracuse, Quinnipiac, Western New England, New England, and possibly a few others.

I thought I could maybe get into UF Law or Rutgers or Buffalo and pay state tuition.

All decent schools. Not the best, but decent, and not at full prices. Just what I'd be happy with.

Are these realistic thoughts?

Do you have a job lined up already? Most of these schools are a losing gamble for people who don't have a family connection/job lined up. You don't want to go to the worst schools in overcrowded markets. State schools like UF or Rutgers would be a good option, if you're paying in-state tuition/have scholarship. Also be aware that some markets like you to have ties to the region, it may be that going to law school there isn't enough.

[omninode]

I have two pieces of advice for you:

1. Figure out where you want to work (city or state) and use that to narrow down your list.

2. Use http://www.lawschoolnumbers.com to see if applicants with your numbers got into the schools you want. Do not trust Law School Predictor or similar services. They are unreliable in dealing with splitters of any kind.

[YankeeFan2]

I will not be retaking. I have my reasons; I will be going to one of these schools (or another one if someone has a recommendation), and I will make the best of it and be successful in my own way.

Please, I apprecaite any advice that does not involve retaking and that involves schools on the list or others that I can and should consider based on great reputation, financials, or both. Thanks so much.

People don't understand what that means in this forum. Yes the economy is bad. Yes its hard to get jobs. Yes some schools are better then others; but if everybody friggen "retakes" as much as its suggested in this forum, there would be no friggen law students because even a 181 is not good enough. So, basically always retake. Just take it over, over and over, because the letters r-e-t-a-k-e are the only keys that produce letters on the screen once you log into TLS Forums.

Probably one of the more frustrating things in here when you are actually looking for RELEVANT advice.

Completely agree with above. The majority of people just say to retake.