Waterloo Engineering - Google, Facebook - 175 LSAT

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canadianengineer
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Re: Waterloo Engineering - Google, Facebook - 175 LSAT

Postby canadianengineer » Tue Jan 03, 2012 3:40 pm

Any chance of writing an addendum to highlight my last 3 years of school, which, correct me if I'm wrong, don't look too bad?

Does anyone have any experience in a similar situation (one poor year, three good ones) and have any advice?

ryemanhattan
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Re: Waterloo Engineering - Google, Facebook - 175 LSAT

Postby ryemanhattan » Tue Jan 03, 2012 3:43 pm

Apply. Weigh your options once you've got some offers. Skip Yale and probably Harvard. Blanket the rest of the top 14. Given your IP bent you should obviously be targeting Stanford (and Berkeley). Unfortunately they both seem to put more weight on GPA over LSAT score, especially Berkeley, so statistically you're unlikely to get into either. So what? Do it. Then think really hard about what you'll be getting out of law school, since it may very well cost you money in the long run vs. engineering. If you've already got contacts at some of these tech companies you've interned with, maintain them. Being in house counsel at Google probably doesn't suck.

Upward grade trend is a good thing and you should write a brief addendum about how you were sick/troubled/overwhelmed/pregnant/orphaned/etc your freshman year.

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Verity
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Re: Waterloo Engineering - Google, Facebook - 175 LSAT

Postby Verity » Tue Jan 03, 2012 3:44 pm

LOL @ in house counsel at Google.

c3pO4
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Re: Waterloo Engineering - Google, Facebook - 175 LSAT

Postby c3pO4 » Tue Jan 03, 2012 5:24 pm

canadianengineer wrote:Any chance of writing an addendum to highlight my last 3 years of school, which, correct me if I'm wrong, don't look too bad?

Does anyone have any experience in a similar situation (one poor year, three good ones) and have any advice?


Sure, it doesn't matter. Again, they care about the final GPA and LSAT, your trend up or down is almost irrelevant.

c3pO4
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Re: Waterloo Engineering - Google, Facebook - 175 LSAT

Postby c3pO4 » Tue Jan 03, 2012 5:26 pm

Verity wrote:LOL @ in house counsel at Google.


Seriously, how misinformed can you be. The only way you have a shot to be in house at google is Bay Area IP biglaw for 7-10 years. Then, if you networked well and are lucky, you have a shot. But, if you are lucky enough to get bay area tech biglaw and survive for 7-10 years, you'll have some pretty fun exit options.

Or, you could go get a job at Facebook as an engineer, make 100k 1 year out of college, leave after 3 years to start your own comapny, raise a few million, take a shot at the big payday, if it doesn't work go back to a big company, rinse, repeat. Seriously this is a great and fulfilling career - I've seen many people do it. Why would you throw that away to become a lawyer?

canadianengineer
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Re: Waterloo Engineering - Google, Facebook - 175 LSAT

Postby canadianengineer » Tue Jan 03, 2012 5:42 pm

I want to be a lawyer, not an engineer. T14s outside of Harvard, Yale, Stanford - how are my chances?

c3pO4
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Re: Waterloo Engineering - Google, Facebook - 175 LSAT

Postby c3pO4 » Tue Jan 03, 2012 6:53 pm

canadianengineer wrote:I want to be a lawyer, not an engineer. T14s outside of Harvard, Yale, Stanford - how are my chances?


Well, not really fun to answer your questions if you don't even engage. Do you really think being involved in how law shapes technology is what lawyers do?

09042014
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Re: Waterloo Engineering - Google, Facebook - 175 LSAT

Postby 09042014 » Tue Jan 03, 2012 7:00 pm

canadianengineer wrote:I want to be a lawyer, not an engineer. T14s outside of Harvard, Yale, Stanford - how are my chances?


In at all non T6 except Berkley. Iffy at CCN.

But you should go work for a tech company for 3-5 years first. Why?

First it'll make your GPA seem less bad.

Second, it'll make you in serious demand during law recruiting.

Third, you'll probably like what you do, make as much as a lawyer, and never go to law school.

c3pO4
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Re: Waterloo Engineering - Google, Facebook - 175 LSAT

Postby c3pO4 » Tue Jan 03, 2012 7:03 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
canadianengineer wrote:I want to be a lawyer, not an engineer. T14s outside of Harvard, Yale, Stanford - how are my chances?


In at all non T6 except Berkley. Iffy at CCN.

But you should go work for a tech company for 3-5 years first. Why?

First it'll make your GPA seem less bad.

Second, it'll make you in serious demand during law recruiting.

Third, you'll probably like what you do, make as much as a lawyer, and never go to law school.


+1. Even if your hair brained scheme to be a lawyer makes any sense, the best way to is to accumulate a few years of solid engineering work experience (forget about your lame ass internships). That way, you will get your pick of the top IP practice areas at firms or boutiques of your choosing after 1L year. As of right now, you are in at a bunch of T14 schools but won't stand out that much during the job search.

serdog
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Re: Waterloo Engineering - Google, Facebook - 175 LSAT

Postby serdog » Tue Jan 03, 2012 11:36 pm

OP other option is quite frankly to stay in Canada, with last two/best two and drops. He would have a very good shot at UofT(look at your last 3 with a median of 3.8/164) and likely in every where else, maybe not UBC given the drop system. Given that your Canadian and your Stats I won't go to an American School unless your 100% committed to practice in the State, also our Schools are cheaper (UofT %25,000 down to $8,000 at UVIC) finally due fewer school per captia the legal market is healthier

ETA: of course most of the best School are close to application now so you would have to wait for next year

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sach1282
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Re: Waterloo Engineering - Google, Facebook - 175 LSAT

Postby sach1282 » Wed Jan 04, 2012 12:43 pm

c3pO4 wrote:No way. It makes literally no difference. I know people who have founded their own startup companies... doesn't matter. LSAT/GPA is literally all that matters to law schools. Everybody has a remarkable soft of some kind at the T6 level, whether it's national champion of something, solid WE, athlete, musician, whatever. It won't help you.

Welcome to law, where all your engineering prestige will do nothing but get you a job filing patents for someone or litigating over them. Stay in engineering where your "user facing" experience is actually worth a shit, you have a bigger chance at a large payday, you won't be working 90 hour weeks in your 60's, and your work will be engaging.


If you did actually make a successful startup it would probably help you a pretty decent amount. Not like .2 GPA of 3 LSAT points would help, but I've spent enough time on LSN to see that people who have softs like starting their own company outperform their numbers. With that said, internships do not equal founding a startup.

Also

This is the Credited response:
Desert Fox wrote:
In at all non T6 except Berkley. Iffy at CCN.

But you should go work for a tech company for 3-5 years first. Why?

First it'll make your GPA seem less bad.

Second, it'll make you in serious demand during law recruiting.

Third, you'll probably like what you do, make as much as a lawyer, and never go to law school.

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romothesavior
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Re: Waterloo Engineering - Google, Facebook - 175 LSAT

Postby romothesavior » Wed Jan 04, 2012 1:28 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
canadianengineer wrote:I want to be a lawyer, not an engineer. T14s outside of Harvard, Yale, Stanford - how are my chances?


In at all non T6 except Berkley. Iffy at CCN.

But you should go work for a tech company for 3-5 years first. Why?

First it'll make your GPA seem less bad.

Second, it'll make you in serious demand during law recruiting.

Third, you'll probably like what you do, make as much as a lawyer, and never go to law school.

TCR

UofO
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Re: Waterloo Engineering - Google, Facebook - 175 LSAT

Postby UofO » Wed Jan 04, 2012 3:59 pm

serdog wrote:OP other option is quite frankly to stay in Canada, with last two/best two and drops. He would have a very good shot at UofT(look at your last 3 with a median of 3.8/164) and likely in every where else, maybe not UBC given the drop system. Given that your Canadian and your Stats I won't go to an American School unless your 100% committed to practice in the State, also our Schools are cheaper (UofT %25,000 down to $8,000 at UVIC) finally due fewer school per captia the legal market is healthier

ETA: of course most of the best School are close to application now so you would have to wait for next year


Actually, U of T's median is a 3.9/4 (best 3 yrs) and a 168.

canadianengineer
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Re: Waterloo Engineering - Google, Facebook - 175 LSAT

Postby canadianengineer » Wed Jan 04, 2012 5:04 pm

Not quite - it is an 85.5% average, which *somewhat* works out to a 3.9...but, not really.

My average in % is very close to what they want.

MrAnon
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Re: Waterloo Engineering - Google, Facebook - 175 LSAT

Postby MrAnon » Wed Jan 04, 2012 5:09 pm

Your work experience doesn't help you for law school admissions in any significant way.

You need to understand that you are taking a huge step down if you are truly considering law school. Your post almost reads like a joke in that way. Stay on track in the industry you are in, unless you are really not doing anything there. Its one thing to say you had internships at google and facebook. Were they meaningful? Did you learn things? can you figure stuff out on your own? if so, stay in the industry. If all you did was push paper and these companies have no interest in hiring you, then maybe law school is the right choice.

canadianengineer
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Re: Waterloo Engineering - Google, Facebook - 175 LSAT

Postby canadianengineer » Wed Jan 04, 2012 5:13 pm

MrAnon wrote:Your work experience doesn't help you for law school admissions in any significant way.

You need to understand that you are taking a huge step down if you are truly considering law school. Your post almost reads like a joke in that way. Stay on track in the industry you are in, unless you are really not doing anything there. Its one thing to say you had internships at google and facebook. Were they meaningful? Did you learn things? can you figure stuff out on your own? if so, stay in the industry. If all you did was push paper and these companies have no interest in hiring you, then maybe law school is the right choice.


Yes, of course they were meaningful. They were Software Engineering internships working on some very interesting and tough technical challenges. Why is law school such a poor choice? How is it a huge step down? Working as a Software Engineer is not what I want for the rest of my life - so what? I am planning on maintaining my network in the tech. industry and *hopefully* using that as my foot-in-the-door for law internships.

MrAnon
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Re: Waterloo Engineering - Google, Facebook - 175 LSAT

Postby MrAnon » Wed Jan 04, 2012 5:20 pm

canadianengineer wrote:
MrAnon wrote:Your work experience doesn't help you for law school admissions in any significant way.

You need to understand that you are taking a huge step down if you are truly considering law school. Your post almost reads like a joke in that way. Stay on track in the industry you are in, unless you are really not doing anything there. Its one thing to say you had internships at google and facebook. Were they meaningful? Did you learn things? can you figure stuff out on your own? if so, stay in the industry. If all you did was push paper and these companies have no interest in hiring you, then maybe law school is the right choice.


Yes, of course they were meaningful. They were Software Engineering internships working on some very interesting and tough technical challenges. Why is law school such a poor choice? How is it a huge step down? Working as a Software Engineer is not what I want for the rest of my life - so what? I am planning on maintaining my network in the tech. industry and *hopefully* using that as my foot-in-the-door for law internships.



Because law essentially is paper pushing at the corporate level.

062914123
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Re: Waterloo Engineering - Google, Facebook - 175 LSAT

Postby 062914123 » Wed Jan 04, 2012 5:30 pm

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Last edited by 062914123 on Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Lincoln
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Re: Waterloo Engineering - Google, Facebook - 175 LSAT

Postby Lincoln » Wed Jan 04, 2012 5:40 pm

You got some good responses here about your chances, so I won't address that. If you really wanted to do law, and not software engineering, that's fine. But you don't seem to have a good grasp of what most tech lawyers do. "[E]nsuring that technology is developing within the bounds of the law" is just not what 99% of lawyers do (and being in that other 1% is luck, not a career choice). If you did, indeed, have an idea of "where/how that is possible" then I would encourage you to apply. (I made the decision to leave a career for law school because I knew what I wanted.) But shelling out $200k plus maybe another $200k+ in lost income because you "imagine there are firms working hand-in-hand with technology companies" is just a poor decision.

My advice is this:
Talk to some tech lawyers and ask what they do on a daily basis. If you decide what they do is something you'd like to do instead of engineering, and it would be worth $400k to do so, then by all means. But don't do it based on a misconception of what practicing law is like.

Edited for poor grammar.

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Verity
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Re: Waterloo Engineering - Google, Facebook - 175 LSAT

Postby Verity » Wed Jan 04, 2012 6:02 pm

I think OP is suspicious of law students who tell him not to be a lawyer.

c3pO4
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Re: Waterloo Engineering - Google, Facebook - 175 LSAT

Postby c3pO4 » Wed Jan 04, 2012 6:12 pm

Verity wrote:I think OP is suspicious of law students who tell him not to be a lawyer.


Well, OP is going to hate being a lawyer once OP realizes what it actually is like.

canadianengineer
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Re: Waterloo Engineering - Google, Facebook - 175 LSAT

Postby canadianengineer » Wed Jan 04, 2012 6:52 pm

I think the opportunity for what I want to do, as a lawyer involved in technology, is there. Going to law school is the next step for me.

Is there anything I can do to improve my application for Stanford? It is right in the heart of Silicon Valley, a place I have spent a lot of time helping build technology products.

decaf735
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Re: Waterloo Engineering - Google, Facebook - 175 LSAT

Postby decaf735 » Wed Jan 04, 2012 7:00 pm

this is why everyone is telling you to go into the field of engineering--those 6 internships will probably weigh a huge amount if you are to pursue that career and likely will land you a great job in that field.

but they are all for naught if you go to law school.

your GPA is prohibitive, HYS are 100% out, CC are probably out, and you begin to have a slim shot at NYU. and then it gets a bit better after that, you'd probably make it in bottom half of t14

canadianengineer
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Re: Waterloo Engineering - Google, Facebook - 175 LSAT

Postby canadianengineer » Wed Jan 04, 2012 7:28 pm

Does anyone have any opinions on how the technology internships help landing law internships? (During the summer, after 1L and 2L.)

Thanks for all the information - you guys are swaying me to stay here and attend U of T, if possible (yn).

MrAnon
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Re: Waterloo Engineering - Google, Facebook - 175 LSAT

Postby MrAnon » Wed Jan 04, 2012 7:36 pm

You should attend Cardozo. they have a strong IP program geared toward your interests. In fact their IP program is the highest ranked in the midatlantic/northeast I believe.




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