drop in law school apps

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jpal13
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drop in law school apps

Postby jpal13 » Sun Dec 11, 2011 11:26 pm

Will the pretty steep drop in law school apps for 2011 effect admin chances positively? Of course competition at the top will always be intense, but even there I think there are 3,500-4,000 spots in the T14 and if only 150,000 or less (because of re-takers) take the LSAT that is really only 3,000-3,500 170+ and so these people might be able to get further up the rankings then they would have a few years back. Anyone agree/disagree?
Maybe I am just trying to encourage myself.

curiouskitty21
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Re: drop in law school apps

Postby curiouskitty21 » Mon Dec 12, 2011 1:48 am

There definately will be a positive effect from the drop in applicants. Less competitions means bigger slices of bread and pieces of bakin to be divided up and taken home to mama. The law schools can do one of two things: decrease their class sizes or be more flexible with their standards. Since we live in a capitalis society where money is everything they will not decrease class sizes and lose revenue.

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hookem7
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Re: drop in law school apps

Postby hookem7 » Mon Dec 12, 2011 1:50 am

Personally, I don't think the drop in apps will result in any dramatic difference. People who score 160+ are still just as likely to apply. I would just think that the drop is because those who didn't do so hot are changing their minds about law school being a good investment for them. Of course I also have friends that think their score in the 150s is the ticket to making bank, so I'm probably wrong.

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FantasticMrFox
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Re: drop in law school apps

Postby FantasticMrFox » Mon Dec 12, 2011 3:52 am

hookem7 wrote:Personally, I don't think the drop in apps will result in any dramatic difference. People who score 160+ are still just as likely to apply. I would just think that the drop is because those who didn't do so hot are changing their minds about law school being a good investment for them. Of course I also have friends that think their score in the 150s is the ticket to making bank, so I'm probably wrong.

I think you are right; the whole scare about law schools being bad seems to actually scare more of the people who don't think they can get into top law schools than those who can.

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KevinP
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Re: drop in law school apps

Postby KevinP » Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:26 am

Although the drop in tests administered has been discussed here (viewtopic.php?f=6&t=170835), I'll go ahead and give my 2 cents.

Not sure why people think the decrease in test takers--and in turn applicants--would probably from those at the lower end. If anything, the data seems to suggest otherwise.

Applicants as of December 3rd:
Fall 2010 170+: 2479
Fall 2011 170+: 2296
Δ: -183
Δ%: -7.38%

June + October tests administered 2009-2010: 93341
June + October tests administered 2010-2011: 87318
Δ: -6023
Δ%: -6.45%

There was a larger drop in the percentage of delta 170+ applicants than there was in the percentage delta June + October tests administered.

*Only the June/October tests were chosen since the applicants were as of December 3rd. The number of applicants from the previous year(s) would probably be negligible.

Sources:
http://www.lsac.org/LSACResources/Data/ ... stered.asp
http://www.lsac.org/LSACResources/Publi ... EC2010.pdf (page 4)
http://www.lsac.org/LSACResources/Data/ ... ummary.asp
Last edited by KevinP on Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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breadbucket
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Re: drop in law school apps

Postby breadbucket » Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:28 am

hookem7 wrote:I also have friends that think their score in the 150s is the ticket to making bank, so I'm probably wrong.


Dear god

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hookem7
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Re: drop in law school apps

Postby hookem7 » Mon Dec 12, 2011 3:27 pm

breadbucket wrote:
hookem7 wrote:I also have friends that think their score in the 150s is the ticket to making bank, so I'm probably wrong.


Dear god
[quote="breadbucket"]

I wish I was kidding but some people just can't be reasoned with.

CanadianWolf
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Re: drop in law school apps

Postby CanadianWolf » Mon Dec 12, 2011 3:33 pm

OP: This is a good year to be applying to reach law schools.

timbs4339
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Re: drop in law school apps

Postby timbs4339 » Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:28 pm

hookem7 wrote:Personally, I don't think the drop in apps will result in any dramatic difference. People who score 160+ are still just as likely to apply. I would just think that the drop is because those who didn't do so hot are changing their minds about law school being a good investment for them. Of course I also have friends that think their score in the 150s is the ticket to making bank, so I'm probably wrong.


I actually think it will have the opposite effect. People who score highly might be those with better options for other graduate study or higher-paying careers, both to ride out the economy and long-term. They also might be more likely to catch some of the logical inconsistencies with law school marketing materials (95% of our graduates are employed at graduation and our average starting salary among reporting graduates is 100K- what information do you need to evaluate this statement's truth? Hint: There is more than one wrong answer here.) They might also be more likely to research their decision thoroughly.

gman1978
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Re: drop in law school apps

Postby gman1978 » Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:57 am

I predict it helps, but for T14 I wouldn't the effect to be more than 1 point on the lsat and maybe .05 in gpa (in terms of what you need to get in).

jpal13
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Re: drop in law school apps

Postby jpal13 » Wed Dec 14, 2011 8:43 pm

I think this should give hope, go on LSN to any T14 and compare 2010 to 2011, I think this is a good year for getting your reach.

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Campagnolo
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Re: drop in law school apps

Postby Campagnolo » Wed Dec 14, 2011 8:53 pm

KevinP wrote:Although the drop in tests administered has been discussed here (viewtopic.php?f=6&t=170835), I'll go ahead and give my 2 cents.

Not sure why people think the decrease in test takers--and in turn applicants--would probably from those at the lower end. If anything, the data seems to suggest otherwise.

Applicants as of December 3rd:
Fall 2010 170+: 2479
Fall 2011 170+: 2296
Δ: -183
Δ%: -7.38%

June + October tests administered 2009-2010: 93341
June + October tests administered 2010-2011: 87318
Δ: -6023
Δ%: -6.45%

There was a larger drop in the percentage of delta 170+ applicants than there was in the percentage delta June + October tests administered.

*Only the June/October tests were chosen since the applicants were as of December 3rd. The number of applicants from the previous year(s) would probably be negligible.

Sources:
http://www.lsac.org/LSACResources/Data/ ... stered.asp
http://www.lsac.org/LSACResources/Publi ... EC2010.pdf (page 4)
http://www.lsac.org/LSACResources/Data/ ... ummary.asp


Just wanted to give major kudos for using actual sources and not pulling things out of your ass.

Okay, continue the discussion!

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MachineLemon
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Re: drop in law school apps

Postby MachineLemon » Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:08 pm

breadbucket wrote:
hookem7 wrote:I also have friends that think their score in the 150s is the ticket to making bank, so I'm probably wrong.


Dear god


This bank:

Image

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Jah'rakal
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Re: drop in law school apps

Postby Jah'rakal » Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:50 pm

breadbucket wrote:
hookem7 wrote:I also have friends that think their score in the 150s is the ticket to making bank, so I'm probably wrong.


Dear god


wat, plenty of 150's make good money after, especially if ur URM

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bk1
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Re: drop in law school apps

Postby bk1 » Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:53 pm

Jah'rakal wrote:
breadbucket wrote:
hookem7 wrote:I also have friends that think their score in the 150s is the ticket to making bank, so I'm probably wrong.


Dear god


wat, plenty of 150's make good money after, especially if ur URM


Yeah, but you know, most don't.

jpal13
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Re: drop in law school apps

Postby jpal13 » Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:55 pm

I work with a lot of lawyers in my job, a pretty successful group, and when I look at their education it's not that impressive, you are what you make yourself

wontpanic
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Re: drop in law school apps

Postby wontpanic » Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:21 pm

did those lawyers graduate 10+ years ago? Rankings and the LSAT weren't so important back then.
Also, I've been to two LS open houses where the adcoms have said that they will likely accept less apps this year because they got larger classes than expected the last two years.
So it all might balance itself out.

jpal13
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Re: drop in law school apps

Postby jpal13 » Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:43 pm

wontpanic wrote:did those lawyers graduate 10+ years ago? Rankings and the LSAT weren't so important back then.
Also, I've been to two LS open houses where the adcoms have said that they will likely accept less apps this year because they got larger classes than expected the last two years.
So it all might balance itself out.


I do agree with that

WSJ_Law
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Re: drop in law school apps

Postby WSJ_Law » Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:20 pm

Jah'rakal wrote:
breadbucket wrote:
hookem7 wrote:I also have friends that think their score in the 150s is the ticket to making bank, so I'm probably wrong.


Dear god


wat, plenty of 150's make good money after, especially if ur URM


Even 140s too

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breadbucket
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Re: drop in law school apps

Postby breadbucket » Thu Dec 15, 2011 4:25 am

hookem7 wrote:
breadbucket wrote:
hookem7 wrote:I also have friends that think their score in the 150s is the ticket to making bank, so I'm probably wrong.


Dear god
breadbucket wrote:
I wish I was kidding but some people just can't be reasoned with.


My schools MEDIAN is 146. The world is unfortunately filled with these people. Some people go to Southwestern, others count their losses and pack it in.

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rgucsb
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Re: drop in law school apps

Postby rgucsb » Thu Dec 15, 2011 4:31 am

I wonder what this will mean for Transfer applications. Thoughts?

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Grizz
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Re: drop in law school apps

Postby Grizz » Thu Dec 15, 2011 4:43 am

rgucsb wrote:I wonder what this will mean for Transfer applications. Thoughts?

Since it's based on your class rank, nothing.

wontpanic
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Re: drop in law school apps

Postby wontpanic » Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:32 pm

rgucsb wrote:I wonder what this will mean for Transfer applications. Thoughts?


For transfers its interesting because transfers don't get ranked. I read from the NYLS Dean interview (I know, I know) that top schools are being sneaky by accepting less candidates for 1L and then recruiting candidates as transfers. Loop hole!

viacavour
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Re: drop in law school apps

Postby viacavour » Sat Dec 17, 2011 10:49 pm

WSJ_Law wrote:
Even 140s too


Yeah people who got bad scores 10+ years ago then flooded the market which is why there is such a shortage of jobs now. Now you don't have a shot in hell at making money with 140s

I was at a pre-law event at my school and we were told that, based on the number of people who had taken the LSAT the previous year (which is apparently a good indicator?) they were expecting a slight dip in applicants this year.

They also said that they were expecting an increase in the quality of applicants - for the reasons already said ITT. People getting 150s aren't willing to risk it anymore so less un-qualified candidates are applying.

So yes - I think numerically less apps, but I'm not sure if that will equate to an easier cycle

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: drop in law school apps

Postby Tiago Splitter » Sun Dec 18, 2011 1:55 pm

viacavour wrote:
They also said that they were expecting an increase in the quality of applicants - for the reasons already said ITT. People getting 150s aren't willing to risk it anymore so less un-qualified candidates are applying.



Fewer.

People with crappy LSAT scores are also much more likely to buy into the BS that the schools spew. Conversely, people with high scores will likely be in a better position to choose alternative careers. Given this, it's entirely possible that the drop in applicants will be spread across the LSAT spectrum.




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