3.82/177 but applying LATE

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jd5
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3.82/177 but applying LATE

Postby jd5 » Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:56 pm

I have strong numbers (3.82/177) and graduated summa cum laude from a top liberal arts school with moderately strong softs. For a variety of reasons, though, I decided I wanted to apply really late...like, today. I'll probably be getting all my apps in the last week before the deadline.

How will applying so late affect my odds at Yale, Harvard, Stanford, Columbia, NYU? With the exception of Yale (allegedly), I've heard that applying early makes a big difference because of rolling admissions.

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law4vus
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Re: 3.82/177 but applying LATE

Postby law4vus » Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:58 pm

I honestly think the end of November is considered a good enough time to apply. Christmas is "late".

You have very good numbers, I think you'll be ok.

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kwais
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Re: 3.82/177 but applying LATE

Postby kwais » Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:59 pm

you are going to end up at a good law school. apply to the T14

bobbyh1919
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Re: 3.82/177 but applying LATE

Postby bobbyh1919 » Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:41 pm

You'll get into some great schools because of your impressive stats, but those applications should go out ASAP. Waiting until the week of the deadline (I'm assuming this is around early March?) probably won't cost you admission because of the strength of your numbers, but you may miss out on scholarship money that would otherwise definitely have your name on it.

Best of luck to you.

spirals
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Re: 3.82/177 but applying LATE

Postby spirals » Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:39 pm

Is there a reason why your apps can't go out before the last week before the deadline, if you know you want to apply now and you have your LSAT score? Your stats are good enough for T5, I'd think, so what's holding you back from getting the apps in absolutely ASAP? LORs? Can you persuade your writers to submit the letters very, very quickly? It would just be a shame to be knocked out of consideration by schools at which you'd otherwise have such a good shot.

thederangedwang
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Re: 3.82/177 but applying LATE

Postby thederangedwang » Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:42 pm

law4vus wrote:I honestly think the end of November is considered a good enough time to apply. Christmas is "late".

You have very good numbers, I think you'll be ok.

read the op's post again...

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law4vus
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Re: 3.82/177 but applying LATE

Postby law4vus » Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:43 pm

thederangedwang wrote:
law4vus wrote:I honestly think the end of November is considered a good enough time to apply. Christmas is "late".

You have very good numbers, I think you'll be ok.

read the op's post again...


Yeah, I did miss that didn't I? :lol:

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koalatriste
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Re: 3.82/177 but applying LATE

Postby koalatriste » Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:45 pm

as far as CN goes, you're not costing yourself a seat, but you may be costing yourself some scholarship $$. Your GPA is a tad low for H and S, but H is definitely possible with that LSAT.

do you HAVE to go to law school in the fall? take a year off and teach english in China/Korea/France/travel if you can't find anything else to do with yourself.

ahnhub
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Re: 3.82/177 but applying LATE

Postby ahnhub » Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:21 am

as far as CN goes, you're not costing yourself a seat, but you may be costing yourself some scholarship $$. Your GPA is a tad low for H and S, but H is definitely possible with that LSAT.


Agree with everything above. 177 will get you in at CN, but they may run out of money by then (but maybe not--people do get money late). I think an early Harvard app looks really good with those numbers, but in January who knows.

Have you not even talked to possible recommenders? If not, you may have trouble getting everything in on time.

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acrossthelake
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Re: 3.82/177 but applying LATE

Postby acrossthelake » Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:25 am

You'll sell yourself short on H if you don't get it (as you would get it if you applied not so late) and on money at other places. And then, if you re-applied, some schools will sour that you already turned them down.

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Veyron
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Re: 3.82/177 but applying LATE

Postby Veyron » Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:27 am

Friend with similar numbers did what you're thinking of doing. Dinged at H and Y. Ye hath been warned.

thederangedwang
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Re: 3.82/177 but applying LATE

Postby thederangedwang » Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:34 am

lets look at it this way, ur numbers r good, but no means a guarantee for yale or stanford...in fact, even had u applied early, it woulda been a crapshoot for u

harvard is ur best bet, but even there u arent exactly a solid lock since ur gpa is quite low for them, however, u prob woulda gotten in.....now that u applied late, harvard is also a crapshoot now....

i think u have a considerable chance of not getting into any of the three

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DreamsInDigital
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Re: 3.82/177 but applying LATE

Postby DreamsInDigital » Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:22 am

I thought lateness didn't matter at Yale because they don't do rolling admissions?

OP, you don't think you can get stellar application done in a little over a month? Maybe get everything out my the first or second week of January? I know it would be difficult, but might be doable to get in at least a few weeks before deadlines.

imchuckbass58
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Re: 3.82/177 but applying LATE

Postby imchuckbass58 » Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:27 am

There is no reason you shouldn't be able to crank out an ok personal statement in two weeks (even if you are working full time) and send your apps to C and N shortly thereafter. Your PS doesn't have to be perfect. With your numbers at C and N, you could probably take a dump on a piece of paper and send it in and still get admitted.

As for HYS, I guess you can take a bit longer to really refine your PS since your numbers aren't autoadmit, but I really don't see why it should take more than a month.

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dr123
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Re: 3.82/177 but applying LATE

Postby dr123 » Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:27 am

Why apply so late?

jd5
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Re: 3.82/177 but applying LATE

Postby jd5 » Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:45 am

OP here, thanks for all the responses. At this point the biggest thing holding me back from applying sooner is the letters of recommendation. I haven't even reached out to my recommenders yet. What's the earliest I could reasonably ask them to get them out by? They have both written job recommendations for me before if that makes any difference.

thederangedwang
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Re: 3.82/177 but applying LATE

Postby thederangedwang » Wed Nov 30, 2011 11:48 am

jd5 wrote:OP here, thanks for all the responses. At this point the biggest thing holding me back from applying sooner is the letters of recommendation. I haven't even reached out to my recommenders yet. What's the earliest I could reasonably ask them to get them out by? They have both written job recommendations for me before if that makes any difference.


its really hard to give u advice here, cuz on one hand, ur numbers are good enough to go into battle even this late

on the other hand, ur numbers are nowhere near strong enough to guaretee ur gonna win that battle at either of HYS...

it breaks down like this, if u wanna take a bit of a gamble, apply this cycle

if u wanna play it absolutely safe, apply next cycle



and yale technically doesnt having rolling admissions, but they kinda do....it wont hurt u as bad as in other schools, but there is still a very very slight adv to applying early

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soj
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Re: 3.82/177 but applying LATE

Postby soj » Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:56 pm

jd5 wrote:OP here, thanks for all the responses. At this point the biggest thing holding me back from applying sooner is the letters of recommendation. I haven't even reached out to my recommenders yet. What's the earliest I could reasonably ask them to get them out by? They have both written job recommendations for me before if that makes any difference.

Talk to them about their schedules, explain your situation, and politely ask what a reasonable deadline would be. Do this ASAP so you're not held back any longer. Even if you decide to apply next cycle, you might as well get the LORs in now.

spirals
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Re: 3.82/177 but applying LATE

Postby spirals » Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:59 pm

My advice is to see how quickly you can get LORs in, and if it looks like you can't get your apps in until pretty late (i.e. after Christmas), and you're able to wait until next cycle, wait until next cycle. You have great credentials and it would be a shame to get dinged from places you'd otherwise have a decent shot at. It's only one year.

jd5
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Re: 3.82/177 but applying LATE

Postby jd5 » Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:22 pm

OP here, thanks again for all the advice. I'm waiting on an email back from my school's pre-law advisor, but I'm going to decide this weekend whether or not to apply. If it looks like I can get my apps out by the first or second week of January, I'm probably going to go for it.

chasgoose
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Re: 3.82/177 but applying LATE

Postby chasgoose » Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:47 pm

ahnhub wrote:
as far as CN goes, you're not costing yourself a seat, but you may be costing yourself some scholarship $$. Your GPA is a tad low for H and S, but H is definitely possible with that LSAT.


Agree with everything above. 177 will get you in at CN, but they may run out of money by then (but maybe not--people do get money late). I think an early Harvard app looks really good with those numbers, but in January who knows.

Have you not even talked to possible recommenders? If not, you may have trouble getting everything in on time.


Not true, maybe with the exception of the Hamilton and the Butler at Columbia (which you definitely would be in the running for) most scholarships at CLS and NYU are processed in April-ish. With CLS because they like to pretend that their scholarships are somewhat need-based, so long as you get your FAFSA/Need Access forms in (which you can do before you are accepted) by March 1. At NYU you just get everything in by April 1 (you will be accepted by then even if you apply on the deadline) and you are eligble for a scholarship since they process them after they have made almost all of their initial admit offers. Also CLS doesn't really even start notifying RD people until late January and NYU still takes people with desirable #s no matter when you apply so you are pretty much slam dunks for at least admission to both.

Otherwise in the T6:
Yale: A late app won't hurt you.

Harvard: Late app does hurt a little bit, but they are still pretty big (last year I did notice that as time went on they started getting less numbers focused and a little more holisitic, and there seemed to be more of an attempt to fill gaps in their admitted students group, meaning that if you aren't helpful in that effort you might not get in when you could have earlier on).

Stanford: They drag out their process admitting like one or two people at a time so it's unclear if such a late app would hurt you anymore than it typically does.

Chicago: If you don't apply by the end of December you probably aren't getting accepted (at least in the early round). They usually have three waves of admissions decisions, last year pretty much everyone in the last group was WL/dinged (including many who already had/ultimately received HYS acceptances). I can't quite remember when the cutoff was for that last group, but at the latest it was the first week of January. If you REALLY want Chicago, you can still apply and will probably be accepted off the WL if you demonstrate your desire to attend (sending them an essay in the WL phase, etc), but otherwise I wouldn't even bother spending the money (a late app DEFINITELY puts you out of the running for their full scholarship). You will definitely get in CLS/NYU with good money and potentially HYS (even with a late app). It's probably not worth the effort for Chicago unless its your absolute top choice.

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89vision
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Re: 3.82/177 but applying LATE

Postby 89vision » Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:18 pm

With those numbers you should be smart enough to know you have a good chance anywhere you apply. A lot of schools don't start looking at the bulk of their applications until January. Seriously, you needed to ask if you had a good chance?

chasgoose
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Re: 3.82/177 but applying LATE

Postby chasgoose » Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:32 pm

89vision wrote:With those numbers you should be smart enough to know you have a good chance anywhere you apply. A lot of schools don't start looking at the bulk of their applications until January. Seriously, you needed to ask if you had a good chance?


I don't think he's asking whether he has a good chance, but whether it's beneficial for him to wait and apply next cycle given his timeframe. He's a slam dunk at NYU/CLS no matter when he applies, but his GPA makes him a borderline enough candidate at HYS (YS especially) that its not unreasonable to check, especially considering that Harvard definitely gets pickier as time goes on and that is his best shot at one of those three. Combined with the fact that Chicago WL'd almost everybody with his numbers that applied late last year despite accepting almost everyone else that had applied with similar earlier in the cycle the facts suggest that things DO change for an applicant like him with a late application. Also, different schools have different scholarship timelines (i.e. Chicago gives out money as they go, NYU/CLS give it out after most people are accepted, and HYS it doesn't matter since it's need-based) which also is an important consideration. When you are a marginal candidate things like application timing can have an affect.

Personally, I think if he can afford to, apply now (if for no other reason than to lock the recommendations down now before more time intervenes between him and undergrad). There is a good chance one of HYS will bite anyways and if they don't then he can try again next year (if one of them does, I wouldn't recommend reapplying because as I said earlier, he's not guaranteed at any of them no matter when he applies) or go to NYU/CLS now, but if application fees are a concern (and most of these don't fee waiver) he might be better off waiting until next year.

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89vision
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Re: 3.82/177 but applying LATE

Postby 89vision » Fri Dec 02, 2011 4:46 pm

chasgoose wrote:
89vision wrote:With those numbers you should be smart enough to know you have a good chance anywhere you apply. A lot of schools don't start looking at the bulk of their applications until January. Seriously, you needed to ask if you had a good chance?


I don't think he's asking whether he has a good chance, but whether it's beneficial for him to wait and apply next cycle given his timeframe. He's a slam dunk at NYU/CLS no matter when he applies, but his GPA makes him a borderline enough candidate at HYS (YS especially) that its not unreasonable to check, especially considering that Harvard definitely gets pickier as time goes on and that is his best shot at one of those three. Combined with the fact that Chicago WL'd almost everybody with his numbers that applied late last year despite accepting almost everyone else that had applied with similar earlier in the cycle the facts suggest that things DO change for an applicant like him with a late application. Also, different schools have different scholarship timelines (i.e. Chicago gives out money as they go, NYU/CLS give it out after most people are accepted, and HYS it doesn't matter since it's need-based) which also is an important consideration. When you are a marginal candidate things like application timing can have an affect.

Personally, I think if he can afford to, apply now (if for no other reason than to lock the recommendations down now before more time intervenes between him and undergrad). There is a good chance one of HYS will bite anyways and if they don't then he can try again next year (if one of them does, I wouldn't recommend reapplying because as I said earlier, he's not guaranteed at any of them no matter when he applies) or go to NYU/CLS now, but if application fees are a concern (and most of these don't fee waiver) he might be better off waiting until next year.


Right now is also not "late." There are a ton of threads on here stating that. I think those numbers indicate having a good chance, regardless of when you apply, based on their admissions stats and LSN, and I think the OP knows that. Again, this is not LATE in the cycle. It may not be "early" (although there are several threads in the admissions forum stating right now is still early/not LATE).

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acrossthelake
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Re: 3.82/177 but applying LATE

Postby acrossthelake » Fri Dec 02, 2011 4:52 pm

89vision wrote:
Right now is also not "late." There are a ton of threads on here stating that. I think those numbers indicate having a good chance, regardless of when you apply, based on their admissions stats and LSN, and I think the OP knows that. Again, this is not LATE in the cycle. It may not be "early" (although there are several threads in the admissions forum stating right now is still early/not LATE).


The OP said "I'll probably be getting all my apps in the last week before the deadline." because of a wait on LORs. The last week is late in the cycle.




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