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Re: 2.4/155 Vet, Multiple internships, minority

Postby 03121202698008 » Sat Nov 26, 2011 11:53 am

mattviphky wrote:btw, vet status does very little anyway. Study for June, retake.


LOL, no. Vet does a lot at least at some schools...but this person isn't a vet.

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Rotor
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Re: 2.4/155 Vet, Multiple internships, minority

Postby Rotor » Sat Nov 26, 2011 12:21 pm

blowhard wrote:
Yeah, pretty sure separation before duty station is treated like you were never in.


This is not a true statement. There are some conditions that will get this treatment, but not in every case (and I doubt most cases).

There is no federal definition for who is a veteran. To qualify for benefits, a person must have been discharged under conditions other than dishonorable. 38 cfr 3.12. Honorable and general discharges are irrefutably presumed to qualify. OTH and BCD have some room to argue that they too qualify (but that's not an easy argument).

Under 3.12a, a person must serve two years active or be called up for 90 days for reserve components. However, there are a ton of exceptions (like a medical discharge) that might also get one in the door.

Dealing with the VA can be confusing enough without misinformation-- though it does create work for the Berkeley Veterans Law Clinic. :-)

Now that said, based on what OP said, I think he will get zero admissions boost for the service. Schools that credit military service do so because of the maturity and work ethic that come from leading in the fleet/field as an NCO or officer. That has to be brought out well in a PS and there just isn't enough there to warrant a boost in this case. The volunteering for the wounded warriors is commendable work and could form a motivational theme for an interesting PS, but that's about it.

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Rotor
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Re: 2.4/155 Vet, Multiple internships, minority

Postby Rotor » Sat Nov 26, 2011 12:32 pm

blowhard wrote:
mattviphky wrote:btw, vet status does very little anyway. Study for June, retake.


LOL, no. Vet does a lot at least at some schools...but this person isn't a vet.

I laugh too every time I read a post like this, sitting at Berkeley with a 3.4x and a submedian LSAT. The ONLY way I'm here now is because of my service.

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Re: 2.4/155 Vet, Multiple internships, minority

Postby 03121202698008 » Sat Nov 26, 2011 1:21 pm

Rotor wrote:
blowhard wrote:
Yeah, pretty sure separation before duty station is treated like you were never in.


This is not a true statement. There are some conditions that will get this treatment, but not in every case (and I doubt most cases).

There is no federal definition for who is a veteran. To qualify for benefits, a person must have been discharged under conditions other than dishonorable. 38 cfr 3.12. Honorable and general discharges are irrefutably presumed to qualify. OTH and BCD have some room to argue that they too qualify (but that's not an easy argument).

Under 3.12a, a person must serve two years active or be called up for 90 days for reserve components. However, there are a ton of exceptions (like a medical discharge) that might also get one in the door.

Dealing with the VA can be confusing enough without misinformation-- though it does create work for the Berkeley Veterans Law Clinic. :-)

Now that said, based on what OP said, I think he will get zero admissions boost for the service. Schools that credit military service do so because of the maturity and work ethic that come from leading in the fleet/field as an NCO or officer. That has to be brought out well in a PS and there just isn't enough there to warrant a boost in this case. The volunteering for the wounded warriors is commendable work and could form a motivational theme for an interesting PS, but that's about it.


From a legal perspective, what I said is a generalization for sure. I know someone who broke their back in basic and was medically retired. Without some special circumstances though, they receive absolutely no benefits and are treated like they did not serve. Sure, they may technically qualify under 3.12 as they were discharged, but what benefits would they receive? They don't have enough service for GI Bill, etc.

I was speaking more from a practical perspective. I know veterans who would punch OP in the face for calling himself a veteran. OP looks ridiculous for claiming he was a veteran and then listing 3-4 months of service. It's nearly as bad as someone on DEP saying they are a soldier/airmen/marine.

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Bildungsroman
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Re: 2.4/155 Vet, Multiple internships, minority

Postby Bildungsroman » Sat Nov 26, 2011 1:39 pm

blowhard wrote:I know veterans who would punch OP in the face for calling himself a veteran.

The people who would do that sound like violent retards who shouldn't be used to establish a proper baseline.

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californihuh
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Re: 2.4/155 Vet, Multiple internships, minority

Postby californihuh » Sat Nov 26, 2011 2:28 pm

Rotor wrote:
blowhard wrote:There is no federal definition for who is a veteran.

sitting at Berkeley with a 3.4x and a submedian LSAT. The ONLY way I'm here now is because of my service.

Interesting. Yeah.... Kind of hard to wrap around seeing how it's usually not a frequently debated case, but if you boil it down, I guess the only (tangible) reason to be considered a veteran is to receive veteran benefits, which each program said veteran is vying for has their own guidelines, most of them probably defaulting to the official VA's standard.

Going by your numbers... did you have a killer PStatement or LoR? Love you hear your story/tips on your application and acceptance, seeing how I would give up a kidney and/or sign my life away for another 6 years to get accepted to Cal's law program.

Anywho, thumbs-up to Cal's VA office. I got a phone call several years ago congratulating me on getting accepted (for UG) which surprised me given UCB's notoriously liberal views. :mrgreen:
Last edited by californihuh on Sat Nov 26, 2011 2:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Brassica7
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Re: 2.4/155 Vet, Multiple internships, minority

Postby Brassica7 » Sat Nov 26, 2011 2:46 pm

OP, I just wanted to clarify that the reason everyone in this thread is so dismissive of NYLS is not because of simple elitism, but because there are not enough legal jobs for all of the graduates of law schools in the country. Those who get good jobs (or any legal job) upon graduation tend to go to the top schools. It's not just a matter of graduates of schools like NYLS not getting a six-figure salaries right after graduation; many (most?) of their graduates will not find legal work. Some of them will work in doc review, which is hourly, unskilled attorney labor that kills careers. Some will get low-paying attorney jobs, which will allow them to get experience but will not allow them to pay their loans and have any decent quality of life. A few will land in Biglaw, but this will be a small minority.

When schools like this say that 90-something percent of their class is employed nine months after graduation, they count people who work in a coffee shop for $10/hour for 15 hours/week, live in their parents' basement and have $200,000 of law school debt as "employed".

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Re: 2.4/155 Vet, Multiple internships, minority

Postby mattviphky » Sat Nov 26, 2011 4:30 pm

blowhard wrote:
mattviphky wrote:btw, vet status does very little anyway. Study for June, retake.


LOL, no. Vet does a lot at least at some schools...but this person isn't a vet.


Which ones? i'm sincerely curious, as I'm a vet (not a combat vet)

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Re: 2.4/155 Vet, Multiple internships, minority

Postby 03121202698008 » Sat Nov 26, 2011 4:41 pm

mattviphky wrote:
blowhard wrote:
mattviphky wrote:btw, vet status does very little anyway. Study for June, retake.


LOL, no. Vet does a lot at least at some schools...but this person isn't a vet.


Which ones? i'm sincerely curious, as I'm a vet (not a combat vet)


Michigan. Georgetown.

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mattviphky
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Re: 2.4/155 Vet, Multiple internships, minority

Postby mattviphky » Sat Nov 26, 2011 4:43 pm

blowhard wrote:
Rotor wrote:
blowhard wrote:
Yeah, pretty sure separation before duty station is treated like you were never in.


This is not a true statement. There are some conditions that will get this treatment, but not in every case (and I doubt most cases).

There is no federal definition for who is a veteran. To qualify for benefits, a person must have been discharged under conditions other than dishonorable. 38 cfr 3.12. Honorable and general discharges are irrefutably presumed to qualify. OTH and BCD have some room to argue that they too qualify (but that's not an easy argument).

Under 3.12a, a person must serve two years active or be called up for 90 days for reserve components. However, there are a ton of exceptions (like a medical discharge) that might also get one in the door.

Dealing with the VA can be confusing enough without misinformation-- though it does create work for the Berkeley Veterans Law Clinic. :-)

Now that said, based on what OP said, I think he will get zero admissions boost for the service. Schools that credit military service do so because of the maturity and work ethic that come from leading in the fleet/field as an NCO or officer. That has to be brought out well in a PS and there just isn't enough there to warrant a boost in this case. The volunteering for the wounded warriors is commendable work and could form a motivational theme for an interesting PS, but that's about it.


From a legal perspective, what I said is a generalization for sure. I know someone who broke their back in basic and was medically retired. Without some special circumstances though, they receive absolutely no benefits and are treated like they did not serve. Sure, they may technically qualify under 3.12 as they were discharged, but what benefits would they receive? They don't have enough service for GI Bill, etc.

I was speaking more from a practical perspective. I know veterans who would punch OP in the face for calling himself a veteran. OP looks ridiculous for claiming he was a veteran and then listing 3-4 months of service. It's nearly as bad as someone on DEP saying they are a soldier/airmen/marine.


I'm in the Air Guard and during tech school (or AIT), there was a lot of this sentiment coming from the active guys that people in the guard weren't really in...you see this sort of attitude in a lot of aspects military life. Marines think the Navy is cowardly, the Army thinks the Air Force is lazy, the Navy thinks that the Marines are gay, and the Air Force thinks that everyone else is stupid. (These aren't true sentiments, just good spirited rivalry)...But I do hear you about the whole vet status thing. We all know people who "quit" in basic or tech school, and were just allowed to coast for a few months while they were outprocessed. However, it seems like the OP actually has a legitimate condition. During tech school i had a marine in my class who was removed to have heart surgery. He could no longer serve afterward, but the fact that he joined, went to boot camp, then to tech school, and then cut short by a medical issue should not be held against him.

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Re: 2.4/155 Vet, Multiple internships, minority

Postby mattviphky » Sat Nov 26, 2011 4:43 pm

blowhard wrote:
mattviphky wrote:
blowhard wrote:
mattviphky wrote:btw, vet status does very little anyway. Study for June, retake.


LOL, no. Vet does a lot at least at some schools...but this person isn't a vet.


Which ones? i'm sincerely curious, as I'm a vet (not a combat vet)


Michigan. Georgetown.


Crap, schools that I am no where near getting into anyways.

EMZE
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Re: 2.4/155 Vet, Multiple internships, minority

Postby EMZE » Sun Nov 27, 2011 8:58 pm

Here's the bottom line OP.

Retake the LSAT. Even with a 175+ it will be near impossible to gain admission in to NYU. But if you want to stay in NYC, Fordham is a good option if you can make up the difference on your GPA with a stellar LSAT.

The URM card and veteran card will not work for you, or not give you the boost you need to bridge the gap in your current numbers.

For the OP's sake, is there any way to raise a GPA? Does taking community college courses or something like that count even after a first bachelors degree?

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Re: 2.4/155 Vet, Multiple internships, minority

Postby rinkrat19 » Sun Nov 27, 2011 9:01 pm

EMZE wrote:For the OP's sake, is there any way to raise a GPA? Does taking community college courses or something like that count even after a first bachelors degree?


No. After the first bachelors degree is awarded, your LSAC GPA is frozen.




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