176. Retake for Harvard?

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E3to
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176. Retake for Harvard?

Postby E3to » Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:53 pm

edit
Last edited by E3to on Tue Nov 22, 2011 10:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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law4vus
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Re: 176. Retake for Harvard?

Postby law4vus » Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:07 am

I don't think scoring higher is going to help your chances at this point.

It will come down to whether they want to admit a 3.7 non-URM. They have a hard GPA floor for non-URMs but I don't think it's 100% that you won't get in. It's worth the app.

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MrPapagiorgio
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Re: 176. Retake for Harvard?

Postby MrPapagiorgio » Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:12 am

law4vus wrote:I don't think scoring higher is going to help your chances at this point.

It will come down to whether they want to admit a 3.7 non-URM. They have a hard GPA floor for non-URMs but I don't think it's 100% that you won't get in. It's worth the app.

Yea. This.

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thelawyler
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Re: 176. Retake for Harvard?

Postby thelawyler » Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:19 am

Yeah, I agree that the higher LSAT will probably not do much for you now, unfortunately. On the bright side, you have a great shot at tons of awesome schools. good luck.

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MachineLemon
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Re: 176. Retake for Harvard?

Postby MachineLemon » Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:24 am

I don't want to do the math. Is that a 3.70 or something higher? Could make a difference. Per LSN, a 177 seems to be necessary for softening the GPA floor from 3.8 to a 3.75. Of course, with the reduction in testing volume, who knows?

Still, trying to up your score from a 176 make put you under a counter-productive amount of stress. A lower score would just look silly, and you'd be applying later in the cycle. Don't retake, just apply and really polish that PS.

Good luck!

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law4vus
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Re: 176. Retake for Harvard?

Postby law4vus » Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:29 am

TylerM wrote:I don't want to do the math. Is that a 3.70 or something higher? Could make a difference. Per LSN, a 177 seems to be necessary for softening the GPA floor from 3.8 to a 3.75. Of course, with the reduction in testing volume, who knows?


Do what math? He listed his LSDAS GPA...

E3to
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Re: 176. Retake for Harvard?

Postby E3to » Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:33 am

Is that a 3.70 or something higher?


Unfortunately, 3.70. As earlier post mentioned, my sense is that the lower floor will be for URM.

As far as stress, my view right now is that I would regret not going for it, which compensates for the risk of a lower score. Since it is June LSAT, I plan to submit the applications within the first week they open (already have LoRs, PS, addendum, Resume).
Last edited by E3to on Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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law4vus
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Re: 176. Retake for Harvard?

Postby law4vus » Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:39 am

E3to wrote:
Is that a 3.70 or something higher?


Unfortunately, 3.70. As earlier post mentioned, my sense is that the lower floor will be for URM.

As far as stress, my view right now is that I would regret not going for it, which compensates for the risk of a lower score. Since it is June LSAT, I plan to have the applications within the first week they open (already have LoRs, PS, addendum, Resume).


If you feel like you can get a higher score and want to, then you're right that it won't hurt you. I hope it pushes you over!

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MachineLemon
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Re: 176. Retake for Harvard?

Postby MachineLemon » Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:43 am

Ahh, you're applying next cycle. Sorry if I missed that. Do remember that the June LSAT has the hardest curve. There may not even be a 177 on the conversion chart.

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North
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Re: 176. Retake for Harvard?

Postby North » Fri Nov 11, 2011 1:13 am

TylerM wrote:Do remember that the June LSAT has the hardest curve.
Now, that can't be true. Can it?

SchopenhauerFTW
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Re: 176. Retake for Harvard?

Postby SchopenhauerFTW » Fri Nov 11, 2011 1:17 am

North wrote:
TylerM wrote:Do remember that the June LSAT has the hardest curve.
Now, that can't be true. Can it?

http://lsatblog.blogspot.com/2010/04/ea ... -june.html

USCtrojan
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Re: 176. Retake for Harvard?

Postby USCtrojan » Mon Nov 14, 2011 11:49 pm

I have heard through the grapevine from a harvard law alumnus how they do the index score.

10 X Last 2 digits of LSAT + 2X GPA (Three digits, no decimal point) X Number between 0-1 based on strength of undergrad. You have to make a total of 1500 to jump right in. I don't think it is hard floor, but I am not sure

Example

10X 75 (175 LSAT) + 2X 350 (3.50 GPA) X 1 (Harvard) = 1450; below the 1500 threshold.

Heard from a reputable source, but no way to confirm truth to it.

WSJ_Law
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Re: 176. Retake for Harvard?

Postby WSJ_Law » Tue Nov 15, 2011 1:34 pm

Was that harvard alumnus on the admissions committee?

vulpixie
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Re: 176. Retake for Harvard?

Postby vulpixie » Tue Nov 15, 2011 1:50 pm

USCtrojan wrote:I have heard through the grapevine from a harvard law alumnus how they do the index score.

10 X Last 2 digits of LSAT + 2X GPA (Three digits, no decimal point) X Number between 0-1 based on strength of undergrad. You have to make a total of 1500 to jump right in. I don't think it is hard floor, but I am not sure

Example

10X 75 (175 LSAT) + 2X 350 (3.50 GPA) X 1 (Harvard) = 1450; below the 1500 threshold.

Heard from a reputable source, but no way to confirm truth to it.



I wonder how they account for URMs. By adding 5-12 points (depending on the kind of URM) to the original LSAT score and .1 or .2 to the GPA?

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KibblesAndVick
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Re: 176. Retake for Harvard?

Postby KibblesAndVick » Tue Nov 15, 2011 2:00 pm

TylerM wrote:I don't want to do the math. Is that a 3.70 or something higher? Could make a difference. Per LSN, a 177 seems to be necessary for softening the GPA floor from 3.8 to a 3.75. Of course, with the reduction in testing volume, who knows?

Still, trying to up your score from a 176 make put you under a counter-productive amount of stress. A lower score would just look silly, and you'd be applying later in the cycle. Don't retake, just apply and really polish that PS.

Good luck!


+1. If you look at LSN the non-URMs who get into Harvard with GPAs between 3.7 and 3.8 usually have LSAT scores above 176. This is the nonURMS from last cycle with LSATs between 175 and 180 and GPAs between 3.65 and 3.79.

If you really want Harvard there is an advantage to doing just a little bit better. Having said that, the difference between scoring a 176 and a 180 isn't studying or mastery of the material. If you were able to score a 176 you already understand all the material pretty damn well. It gets really random and your scores will bounce around. So getting a few extra points is going to take as much luck as it will hard work and talent.

005618502
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Re: 176. Retake for Harvard?

Postby 005618502 » Tue Nov 15, 2011 2:02 pm

You will have big money to MVPB and definitely in at CCN. I dont think a retake it worth it. Take the money and run at a great school

tennisking88
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Re: 176. Retake for Harvard?

Postby tennisking88 » Tue Nov 15, 2011 2:11 pm


MattLiv12
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Re: 176. Retake for Harvard?

Postby MattLiv12 » Tue Nov 15, 2011 2:40 pm

As an (almost) numbers twin I've had similar thoughts but I think 176 and 180 should perform almost identically. If Harvard's 75th stays at 176 wouldn't a 176 be identical to a 180 in the eyes of the adcomms? As I understand it, Harvard basically needs 1/4 of their class to be 176+ but it really doesn't matter if they are all 176s and no 180s. Medians and 75th would be the same. Now if the index calculation mentioned previously is accurate then it could slightly help you (maybe WL>admit) but retaking a 176 is absurd unless you are PTing 180 consistently. Just my .02 and I could be wrong. Also remember LSATs are down so hopefully they will be scooping up most 176+s to maintain the 75th.

vulpixie
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Re: 176. Retake for Harvard?

Postby vulpixie » Tue Nov 15, 2011 2:59 pm

MattLiv12 wrote:176 and 180 should perform almost identically. If Harvard's 75th stays at 176 wouldn't a 176 be identical to a 180 in the eyes of the adcomms?



This.


This is also why I'm skeptical of the idea that adcoms use a formula which weights a 180 higher than a 178 (i.e., a formula which doesn't account for cut-offs for a school's 25, 50, and 75th percentiles).

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Veyron
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Re: 176. Retake for Harvard?

Postby Veyron » Tue Nov 15, 2011 3:46 pm

You're above the LSAT median, no difference between 176 and 179 at that point.

seanPtheB
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Re: 176. Retake for Harvard?

Postby seanPtheB » Fri Nov 18, 2011 1:04 pm

USCtrojan wrote:I have heard through the grapevine from a harvard law alumnus how they do the index score.

10 X Last 2 digits of LSAT + 2X GPA (Three digits, no decimal point) X Number between 0-1 based on strength of undergrad. You have to make a total of 1500 to jump right in. I don't think it is hard floor, but I am not sure

Example

10X 75 (175 LSAT) + 2X 350 (3.50 GPA) X 1 (Harvard) = 1450; below the 1500 threshold.

Heard from a reputable source, but no way to confirm truth to it.


Doesn't this formula give waaaay more consideration to your undergrad than the data would suggest?

edit: for example, someone with a 4.0 and a 180 doesn't "jump right in" if their UG dips to pretty much anything below "1" in that formula? Come on now.

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Yukos
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Re: 176. Retake for Harvard?

Postby Yukos » Fri Nov 18, 2011 1:37 pm

seanPtheB wrote:
USCtrojan wrote:I have heard through the grapevine from a harvard law alumnus how they do the index score.

10 X Last 2 digits of LSAT + 2X GPA (Three digits, no decimal point) X Number between 0-1 based on strength of undergrad. You have to make a total of 1500 to jump right in. I don't think it is hard floor, but I am not sure

Example

10X 75 (175 LSAT) + 2X 350 (3.50 GPA) X 1 (Harvard) = 1450; below the 1500 threshold.

Heard from a reputable source, but no way to confirm truth to it.


Doesn't this formula give waaaay more consideration to your undergrad than the data would suggest?

edit: for example, someone with a 4.0 and a 180 doesn't "jump right in" if their UG dips to pretty much anything below "1" in that formula? Come on now.


Yeah I saw this too. Unless it's actually something like "between 0.95-1" this can't be right.

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sunynp
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Re: 176. Retake for Harvard?

Postby sunynp » Fri Nov 18, 2011 1:49 pm

USCtrojan wrote:I have heard through the grapevine from a harvard law alumnus how they do the index score.

10 X Last 2 digits of LSAT + 2X GPA (Three digits, no decimal point) X Number between 0-1 based on strength of undergrad. You have to make a total of 1500 to jump right in. I don't think it is hard floor, but I am not sure

Example

10X 75 (175 LSAT) + 2X 350 (3.50 GPA) X 1 (Harvard) = 1450; below the 1500 threshold.

Heard from a reputable source, but no way to confirm truth to it.


This can't be right. Multiplying by zero means the total is zero. So does this mean they don't accept anyone from a non-ivy school because they can never make the threshold? Multiplying by one makes no difference to the number.

I think this is something someone made up - the last step makes no sense. Also, as noted above the formula makes no accounting for URM status.

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20130312
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Re: 176. Retake for Harvard?

Postby 20130312 » Fri Nov 18, 2011 1:51 pm

sunynp wrote:
USCtrojan wrote:I have heard through the grapevine from a harvard law alumnus how they do the index score.

10 X Last 2 digits of LSAT + 2X GPA (Three digits, no decimal point) X Number between 0-1 based on strength of undergrad. You have to make a total of 1500 to jump right in. I don't think it is hard floor, but I am not sure

Example

10X 75 (175 LSAT) + 2X 350 (3.50 GPA) X 1 (Harvard) = 1450; below the 1500 threshold.

Heard from a reputable source, but no way to confirm truth to it.


This can't be right. Multiplying by zero means the total is zero. So does this mean they don't accept anyone from a non-ivy school because they can never make the threshold? Multiplying by one makes no difference to the number.

I think this is something someone made up - the last step makes no sense. Also, as noted above the formula makes no accounting for URM status.



Order of operations... you only multiply the GPA by the 0-1 factor. LSAT is stand alone.

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englawyer
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Re: 176. Retake for Harvard?

Postby englawyer » Fri Nov 18, 2011 2:00 pm

for a 180/4.0, the school index would have to be ".87" on the 0-1 scale for autoadmit. Personally, I don't think strength of ugrad is a factor, based on my experiences and also LSN (we would see way more red dots in the top right).




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