I need help. 2.87/153 -very confused.

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suicidal student
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I need help. 2.87/153 -very confused.

Postby suicidal student » Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:45 pm

Greetings, I have no idea where I would be accepted. To be frank, I dont even know where to apply. I looked through LSN, Hourumd, LSAC predictor, and countless others. The problem is that they tell me different things; I have found them to be somewhat inconsistent.

With my 2.87 GPA and 153 LSAT, I can walk into John Marshall (ATL) and Florida Coastal, but I hear bad things about those schools from 1Ls on this board. Would I have a chance at U South Carolina, Mercer, West Virginia, U Miami or Gonzaga? I am so confused, all I want to do is practice law, and I need someone to point me in the right direction. If I fall within the 25% for both GPA and LSAT, does that mean I wont be accepted?

I would really appreciate any guidance you guys would be willing to offer me, like I stated before, I need help.

Oh, and I should mention that money is not really an issue (not to be lame, but I have been blessed with financially successful parents).

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MTal
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Re: I need help. 2.87/153 -very confused.

Postby MTal » Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:47 pm

You will not be accepted to anyplace that is worth going to.

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top30man
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Re: I need help. 2.87/153 -very confused.

Postby top30man » Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:51 pm

How many times have you taken the lsat? Would you consider taking it again? Im sorry if that is not the advice you wanted to hear, but unfortunately you are locked out at any tier 1 or tier 2 school.
While it is fantastic that money is not an object, any school that would accept you would be unable to give you a job as an attorney.
Most tier 3 and tier 4 schools only get between 40 and 60% of their class into jobs that require a JD. The jobs that they do get pay between 30 and 60 thousand. Most grads will end up not even vaguely practicing law, and hence, your ROI, even without debt, would be a wasted three years (statistically speaking).

TL/DR: if money isnt an issue, take a prep class (Testmasters/other) and retake the lsat. Get above a 160 and you can get into a tier 2 school that will give you a fighting chance.

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noleknight16
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Re: I need help. 2.87/153 -very confused.

Postby noleknight16 » Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:54 pm

Take the LSAT again and score better. If necessary, take a class to increase your score. That's the only way. Do NOT go to a crappy school because it will not be worth it. Aim for a top law school (tough with your GPA) or get a good enough LSAT to get a nice regional school to accept you (perfectly possible).

Study hard man; set high standards!

suicidal student
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Re: I need help. 2.87/153 -very confused.

Postby suicidal student » Tue Oct 11, 2011 12:01 am

I am retaking the LSAT in December, and my goal is to be around 158-161. Unfortunately, I have already taken a prep class that didnt help me (or any other student in the class) at all. In fact, 3 students actually saw their scores drop from their first diagnostic. I should have mentioned in my first post that I am in no way interested in Big Law, and in no way is Big Law interested in me. I like small town atmospheres and money is not a driving force in my personal life. I have money, and trust me, its not all that great. I dont mean to criticize you TLS'ers who want big law for big bucks, thats your thing, and Im cool with it... but not me.

Anyway, I am planning to hover around the 160 mark for the December LSAT. I have not received my scores for the October 2011 LSAT yet, but my practice tests ranged from 148-156. I really want to go to West Virginia, but if my LSAT/GPA are below both medians, will I be denied?

Void
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Re: I need help. 2.87/153 -very confused.

Postby Void » Tue Oct 11, 2011 12:04 am

The advice here to retake the LSAT is sound. I know you don't want to go through that again, but trust that the couple of months you spend studying will be much less painful than the sensation of graduating with hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of debt and no viable career options in sight. The LSAT can absolutely be mastered if you push yourself. Putting in a real, earnest effort now will really pay off in the long run. Good luck.

Edit: in response to your post: the whole "I don't want biglaw" thing is not an excuse for going to a bottom-tiered school. People who go to the schools you mention are lucky to get any form of compensation in exchange for legal work. Even graduates from the top 30 to 50 schools in the country are lucky to graduate with any kind of legal job. Below that, it gets pretty bad.

Also, aiming for 160 is weak. You need to set your sights higher and actually TRY.
Last edited by Void on Tue Oct 11, 2011 12:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

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top30man
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Re: I need help. 2.87/153 -very confused.

Postby top30man » Tue Oct 11, 2011 12:05 am

I really want to go to West Virginia, but if my LSAT/GPA are below both medians, will I be denied?


Yes. To oversimplify, you need to be 100% of an applicant at a school to be accepted (e.g. at lsat median, at gpa 25th, at both medians, way above the 75th and below the 25th), or at least 75% of an applicant to have a realistic shot. As I said, oversimplifying, but if you are not at both medians, you stand little chance.

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noleknight16
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Re: I need help. 2.87/153 -very confused.

Postby noleknight16 » Tue Oct 11, 2011 12:09 am

suicidal student wrote:I am retaking the LSAT in December, and my goal is to be around 158-161. Unfortunately, I have already taken a prep class that didnt help me (or any other student in the class) at all. In fact, 3 students actually saw their scores drop from their first diagnostic. I should have mentioned in my first post that I am in no way interested in Big Law, and in no way is Big Law interested in me. I like small town atmospheres and money is not a driving force in my personal life. I have money, and trust me, its not all that great. I dont mean to criticize you TLS'ers who want big law for big bucks, thats your thing, and Im cool with it... but not me.

Anyway, I am planning to hover around the 160 mark for the December LSAT. I have not received my scores for the October 2011 LSAT yet, but my practice tests ranged from 148-156. I really want to go to West Virginia, but if my LSAT/GPA are below both medians, will I be denied?


If you're not interested in Big Law and money is not an issue, then WVU should be fine (as long as you plan on living in West Virginia as long as you practice law). A degree from WVU will not have much flexibility in terms of location of employment. Luckily for you, WVU has pretty loose admissions standards. Unfortunately,even hitting the high of 156 with your low GPA will not be enough to cut it. You will need a 158 to have an okay shot, and a 160 to have a good shot. I personally think if you can get into the 160s, try to go to Miami. It's a nice school and you would have a nice time living there having money already. I toured the law school last year and it was really nice.

If logic games is a struggle for you, make sure you get the PowerScore Bible for LG. The Bible for the LR is helpful too. They are expensive, but WORTH IT. The LG bible alone could put you into the 160s.

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Kabuo
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Re: I need help. 2.87/153 -very confused.

Postby Kabuo » Tue Oct 11, 2011 12:29 am

top30man wrote:Most tier 3 and tier 4 schools only get between 40 and 60% of their class into jobs that require a JD. The jobs that they do get pay between 30 and 60 thousand. Most grads will end up not even vaguely practicing law, and hence, your ROI, even without debt, would be a wasted three years (statistically speaking).
.


Is this backed up by any current numbers? It seems absurdly optimistic

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noleknight16
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Re: I need help. 2.87/153 -very confused.

Postby noleknight16 » Tue Oct 11, 2011 12:44 am

Kabuo wrote:
top30man wrote:Most tier 3 and tier 4 schools only get between 40 and 60% of their class into jobs that require a JD. The jobs that they do get pay between 30 and 60 thousand. Most grads will end up not even vaguely practicing law, and hence, your ROI, even without debt, would be a wasted three years (statistically speaking).
.


Is this backed up by any current numbers? It seems absurdly optimistic



The only tier 3 I can recommend is Stetson. It's a nice school that can provide students with a great job in Tampa or the Central Florida area. 95% employment 9 months after. I think I'd actually recommend Stetson over WVU now that I think about it. You need about the same LSAT as WVU to have a shot.

Look into Stetson instead of WVU. You may like it more

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mattviphky
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Re: I need help. 2.87/153 -very confused.

Postby mattviphky » Tue Oct 11, 2011 1:13 am

off the top of your head, what school do you want to attend? Would you want to go Tulane, Vanderbilt, Emory, etc? If these sound like good schools to you, then I suggest you buy the powerscore books (Logic Games Bible and LR Bible and study those for a few months), take many practice tests, and APPLY YOURSELF! If you want a top school like one of the above, then just find out what their 75% lsat score is, and then shoot for that. Boom, motivation

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mattviphky
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Re: I need help. 2.87/153 -very confused.

Postby mattviphky » Tue Oct 11, 2011 1:15 am

MTal wrote:You will not be accepted to anyplace that is worth going to.


i'm sorry, but this is true. Study your way to a good score to compensate for that GPA and then attend a school that will ALLOW YOU TO PRACTICE LAW! the schools you mentioned will lead to shitty legal jobs

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Kabuo
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Re: I need help. 2.87/153 -very confused.

Postby Kabuo » Tue Oct 11, 2011 1:15 am

mattviphky wrote:off the top of your head, what school do you want to attend? Would you want to go Tulane, Vanderbilt, Emory, etc? If these sound like good schools to you, then I suggest you buy the powerscore books (Logic Games Bible and LR Bible and study those for a few months), take many practice tests, and APPLY YOURSELF! If you want a top school like one of the above, then just find out what their 75% lsat score is, and then shoot for that. Boom, motivation


There is a 0% chance he is getting Vandy with that GPA.

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Kabuo
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Re: I need help. 2.87/153 -very confused.

Postby Kabuo » Tue Oct 11, 2011 1:18 am

noleknight16 wrote:
The only tier 3 I can recommend is Stetson. It's a nice school that can provide students with a great job in Tampa or the Central Florida area. 95% employment 9 months after. I think I'd actually recommend Stetson over WVU now that I think about it. You need about the same LSAT as WVU to have a shot.

Look into Stetson instead of WVU. You may like it more


For all I know, it's true that Stetson can lead to a great job in Tampa. That said, the 95% employment number is, charitably speaking, an extremely manipulated figure and practically worthless.

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noleknight16
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Re: I need help. 2.87/153 -very confused.

Postby noleknight16 » Tue Oct 11, 2011 1:25 am

Kabuo wrote:
noleknight16 wrote:
The only tier 3 I can recommend is Stetson. It's a nice school that can provide students with a great job in Tampa or the Central Florida area. 95% employment 9 months after. I think I'd actually recommend Stetson over WVU now that I think about it. You need about the same LSAT as WVU to have a shot.

Look into Stetson instead of WVU. You may like it more


For all I know, it's true that Stetson can lead to a great job in Tampa. That said, the 95% employment number is, charitably speaking, an extremely manipulated figure and practically worthless.


Regardless, Stetson has IMO a better chance of a good job than WVU.

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top30man
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Re: I need help. 2.87/153 -very confused.

Postby top30man » Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:05 am

For all I know, it's true that Stetson can lead to a great job in Tampa. That said, the 95% employment number is, charitably speaking, an extremely manipulated figure and practically worthless.


Class of 2009 only landed 55% bar required jobs. Salaries were likely to be pitiful. Do not trust what the school says about employed after graduation. Half of those "employed" were not doing anything that they needed a JD for.

Florida is overcrowded, if you are only picking between those two schools (for some reason) WVU is the smart choice.

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Tom Joad
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Re: I need help. 2.87/153 -very confused.

Postby Tom Joad » Tue Oct 11, 2011 11:14 am

Check out schools like North Dakota, South Dakota, Nebraska, Wyoming, and Montana.

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DocHawkeye
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Re: I need help. 2.87/153 -very confused.

Postby DocHawkeye » Tue Oct 11, 2011 11:32 am

If BigLaw is not your goal, you might consider some T-3 schools that dominate their local markets. For example, Drake University places very well in Des Moines and elsewhere in Iowa. There are only two law schools in the state and many graduates from the University of Iowa seek to practice in larger markets, opening up room for Drake Graduates. Iowa Supreme Court Justices, Governors and Legislators have come from the ranks of Drake Law Alumni. Creighton University is another good example. It places extremely well in Omaha. Nebraska is another state with only two law schools. Since I am from the Midwest, these are the best examples I can come up with on the spot. I'm not sure how this plays out in other markets, but I'm sure that others will be quick to add their input.

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Tom Joad
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Re: I need help. 2.87/153 -very confused.

Postby Tom Joad » Tue Oct 11, 2011 3:22 pm

DocHawkeye wrote:If BigLaw is not your goal, you might consider some T-3 schools that dominate their local markets...Creighton University is another good example. It places extremely well in Omaha. Nebraska is another state with only two law schools.


That is tons of debt to service with a $40,000 a year salary if you are lucky dude. I am from the state and UNL is much more widely respected, even in Omaha.

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Grizz
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Re: I need help. 2.87/153 -very confused.

Postby Grizz » Tue Oct 11, 2011 3:39 pm

noleknight16 wrote:
Kabuo wrote:
top30man wrote:Most tier 3 and tier 4 schools only get between 40 and 60% of their class into jobs that require a JD. The jobs that they do get pay between 30 and 60 thousand. Most grads will end up not even vaguely practicing law, and hence, your ROI, even without debt, would be a wasted three years (statistically speaking).
.


Is this backed up by any current numbers? It seems absurdly optimistic



The only tier 3 I can recommend is Stetson. It's a nice school that can provide students with a great job in Tampa or the Central Florida area. 95% employment 9 months after. I think I'd actually recommend Stetson over WVU now that I think about it. You need about the same LSAT as WVU to have a shot.

Look into Stetson instead of WVU. You may like it more


lol have you been to central FL lately? Slaughterhouse.

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Re: I need help. 2.87/153 -very confused.

Postby 23402385985 » Tue Oct 11, 2011 5:51 pm

suicidal student wrote:I am retaking the LSAT in December, and my goal is to be around 158-161. Unfortunately, I have already taken a prep class that didnt help me (or any other student in the class) at all. In fact, 3 students actually saw their scores drop from their first diagnostic. I should have mentioned in my first post that I am in no way interested in Big Law, and in no way is Big Law interested in me. I like small town atmospheres and money is not a driving force in my personal life. I have money, and trust me, its not all that great. I dont mean to criticize you TLS'ers who want big law for big bucks, thats your thing, and Im cool with it... but not me.

Anyway, I am planning to hover around the 160 mark for the December LSAT. I have not received my scores for the October 2011 LSAT yet, but my practice tests ranged from 148-156. I really want to go to West Virginia, but if my LSAT/GPA are below both medians, will I be denied?


There are people at WVU that are below median on one or the other, but I don't know of anyone below median on both. I would say you are a long shot at WVU.

Take time off, re-take the LSAt, score a 156+, and you'll have a half decent shot. If you score in the 160s, you'll be in with money.

23402385985
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Re: I need help. 2.87/153 -very confused.

Postby 23402385985 » Tue Oct 11, 2011 6:01 pm

noleknight16 wrote:
Kabuo wrote:
noleknight16 wrote:
The only tier 3 I can recommend is Stetson. It's a nice school that can provide students with a great job in Tampa or the Central Florida area. 95% employment 9 months after. I think I'd actually recommend Stetson over WVU now that I think about it. You need about the same LSAT as WVU to have a shot.

Look into Stetson instead of WVU. You may like it more


For all I know, it's true that Stetson can lead to a great job in Tampa. That said, the 95% employment number is, charitably speaking, an extremely manipulated figure and practically worthless.


Regardless, Stetson has IMO a better chance of a good job than WVU.


Based off of what? Stetson is competing against, what, 5 other Florida schools? May be more?

The top 30% of the class at WVU has their pick of the mid-big law firms in the state along with the Article III clerkships (I think it's top 50 in percentage of students in an Article II clerkship, from what admissions mentioned -- about 4-5% per year of the students). WV firms hire pretty much exclusively from WVU students and there are a few solid ones. The cost of living here is near non-existant. Frankly, the school pretty much tells you that if you are top 30% you are set. The rest of the students fight for smaller law firm positions, etc. But pretty much every person practicing in the state comes from WVU. It also reaches a bit into Western Maryland, Eastern Kentucky, etc. If you're top of your class, you can also get in somewhere in Pittsburgh.

That's the reason I chose it over some other similarly ranked schools.

If I had a better GPA, I'd be going to a better school. I don't, so I had to pick and choose. But this is a solid regional school that places well out here. It's gorgeous out here and is fucking dirt cheap to live. The school is also pretty cheap. Under 30K for out of state and they give out money like it's candy if you are above median on the LSAT.

CanadianWolf
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Re: I need help. 2.87/153 -very confused.

Postby CanadianWolf » Tue Oct 11, 2011 6:04 pm

Which LSAT prep course did you take ?

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DocHawkeye
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Re: I need help. 2.87/153 -very confused.

Postby DocHawkeye » Tue Oct 11, 2011 6:51 pm

Tom Joad wrote:
DocHawkeye wrote:If BigLaw is not your goal, you might consider some T-3 schools that dominate their local markets...Creighton University is another good example. It places extremely well in Omaha. Nebraska is another state with only two law schools.


That is tons of debt to service with a $40,000 a year salary if you are lucky dude. I am from the state and UNL is much more widely respected, even in Omaha.


Are you a law student at UNL?

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Tom Joad
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Re: I need help. 2.87/153 -very confused.

Postby Tom Joad » Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:07 pm

DocHawkeye wrote:
Tom Joad wrote:
DocHawkeye wrote:If BigLaw is not your goal, you might consider some T-3 schools that dominate their local markets...Creighton University is another good example. It places extremely well in Omaha. Nebraska is another state with only two law schools.


That is tons of debt to service with a $40,000 a year salary if you are lucky dude. I am from the state and UNL is much more widely respected, even in Omaha.


Are you a law student at UNL?


Nope but I will be applying.




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