Top Law Schools

-gpa 3.898
-LSAT: I haven't actually taken it yet, but i've been in the 173-174 range for most practice tests. I could see it going as well as upper 170s, or as low as 170, mainly depending on how LGs go. So let's say 173.
-Average LOR and PS (As in good, but I'm sure most with my stats also do a good job)
-Applying for dual degree MPP/JD (not sure if this will have any effect). Want to go into public interest lobbying work.

And the Weaknesses:
-I'm a white male
-I go to a small, unselective liberal arts school that lacks any sort of prestige
-I'm applying right out of college (though I've done three fairly impressive internships)

So what are my odds at Harvard, Chicago, NYU, and Michigan (beyond what the calculators have already told me) and more interestingly, any shot at money?

Get a real LSAT. Good luck!

Bodhi_mind wrote:Get a real LSAT. Good luck!

+1 There is a huge difference between upper 170s, mid 170s and low 170s.

Bodhi_mind wrote:Get a real LSAT. Good luck!

+1 as well. Just a warning--people's average scores fall sometimes on test day. I was averaging 173-174, fell to a 169 because of test day anxiety. Don't count your chickens before they hatch--but I hope that the same thing doesn't happen to you (:

Samara wrote:

Bodhi_mind wrote:Get a real LSAT. Good luck!

+1 There is a huge difference between upper 170s, mid 170s and low 170s.

Yeah, I know that from plenty of fiddling with various score calculators. I would say there's probably an 80% chance that it'll be in the 173-174 range (knowing how well I test, etc.).

I'm only asking before I have a hard score because I won't know my score until late October, and am planning to have my applications all in by early November at the latest (both for best possible chances and because the second half of my semester is swamped). Hence, if I haven't already figured out where I'm applying and what my odds with a given score, that's going to be a really time crunch. So that's why I want to game it out for a 173.

And crumpetsandtea: I've considered that possibility, but I'm fortunate to be a really good test taker, and have a tendency to over-perform under pressure.

Samara wrote: +1 There is a huge difference between upper 170s, mid 170s and low 170s.

Just a couple questions can mean a totally different selection of schools/thousands of $$.

ridiculous

rtotari wrote:

Samara wrote: +1 There is a huge difference between upper 170s, mid 170s and low 170s.

Just a couple questions can mean a totally different selection of schools/thousands of $$.

ridiculous

Yup. And I'm shut out of most of the T14 because I didn't know what I wanted to do in college. And my GPA is reported as .2 lower than my UG GPA. Some aspect of the process is unfair to nearly everyone. Luckily, with the diversity of the T14, you can get in somewhere as long as you're good at something.

Also, TBF, the new retake policies both create and alleviate a lot of this.

If you actually score a 173, you'll get into Chicago, NYU, and Michigan with money. You'll be at both of Harvard's medians, so it's pretty much a 50-50.

Samara wrote:

rtotari wrote:

Samara wrote: +1 There is a huge difference between upper 170s, mid 170s and low 170s.

Just a couple questions can mean a totally different selection of schools/thousands of $$.

ridiculous

Yup. And I'm shut out of most of the T14 because I didn't know what I wanted to do in college. And my GPA is reported as .2 lower than my UG GPA. Some aspect of the process is unfair to nearly everyone. Luckily, with the diversity of the T14, you can get in somewhere as long as you're good at something.

Also, TBF, the new retake policies both create and alleviate a lot of this.

Also, if we're trying to be fair, it wasn't because you didn't know what you wanted to do in college, it was because you did shitty in classes not reported on your UG transcript. Not trying to start something, just saying you could maybe take responsibility for it rather than saying the process is unfair.

birdlaw117 wrote: Also, if we're trying to be fair, it wasn't because you didn't know what you wanted to do in college, it was because you did shitty in classes not reported on your UG transcript. Not trying to start something, just saying you could maybe take responsibility for it rather than saying the process is unfair.

Haha, I know, I was being a little glib. A few years ago I would have been a lot more upset, but I've come to accept that it's my responsibility to demonstrate my skill level. Adcomms do the best they can with what they have and I don't fault them for looking at me skeptically because of my GPA. I'm just thankful that there are top schools that are willing to forgive such failures.

Samara wrote:

birdlaw117 wrote: Also, if we're trying to be fair, it wasn't because you didn't know what you wanted to do in college, it was because you did shitty in classes not reported on your UG transcript. Not trying to start something, just saying you could maybe take responsibility for it rather than saying the process is unfair.

Haha, I know, I was being a little glib. A few years ago I would have been a lot more upset, but I've come to accept that it's my responsibility to demonstrate my skill level. Adcomms do the best they can with what they have and I don't fault them for looking at me skeptically because of my GPA. I'm just thankful that there are top schools that are willing to forgive such failures.

Absolutely. Good luck with your cycle!

For OP, worry about school you want to/are applying to once you get your LSAT score. Or, at the very least, wait until you've already taken the exam and then come with scenarios such as: If I get a 170, I'm going to do this... If I get a 174 I'll do this... sort of thing.

Samara wrote:

Bodhi_mind wrote:Get a real LSAT. Good luck!

+1 There is a huge difference between upper 170s, mid 170s and low 170s.

There is a big difference in odds of admission, but with that gpa the school list doesn't change much. Op should just get the apps and essays ready for the t14.

Im more curious about games being the problem area

Tiago Splitter wrote:

Samara wrote:

Bodhi_mind wrote:Get a real LSAT. Good luck!

+1 There is a huge difference between upper 170s, mid 170s and low 170s.

There is a big difference in odds of admission, but with that gpa the school list doesn't change much. Op should just get the apps and essays ready for the t14.

Im more curious about games being the problem area

The reason games are an issue for me is that I'm slow on them. I can get every question right, but as of right now I average about 10 minutes per game (though can do some in considerably less time). Overall, I'm going to miss 3-5 on LR and RC, then I'll do anywhere from perfect to blowing an entire game (by virtue of not getting to it) on the games section.

Any tips for game studying beyond the "do a lot of games a lot of times" strategy i'm employing now?

PKozi wrote:

Tiago Splitter wrote:

Samara wrote:

Bodhi_mind wrote:Get a real LSAT. Good luck!

+1 There is a huge difference between upper 170s, mid 170s and low 170s.

There is a big difference in odds of admission, but with that gpa the school list doesn't change much. Op should just get the apps and essays ready for the t14.

Im more curious about games being the problem area

The reason games are an issue for me is that I'm slow on them. I can get every question right, but as of right now I average about 10 minutes per game (though can do some in considerably less time). Overall, I'm going to miss 3-5 on LR and RC, then I'll do anywhere from perfect to blowing an entire game (by virtue of not getting to it) on the games section.

Any tips for game studying beyond the "do a lot of games a lot of times" strategy i'm employing now?

If there's that big of a range on your games section, then I don't think you're a lock to score in the 170s like you're saying. The games section is where nerves come most into play as well. Not trying to be a hater, just keep working on the timing and trying to improve your scores then have your best day on test day!

I scored similarly to you on practice tests (172. avg) and ended up with a 169 because of a bad games section.